OT: D1

[IUP24]

If a d2 team moves to d1, NIL funding must be comparable. One d1 coach recently said today's players will change clothes in a phone booth if they are getting paid more $ (alluding to fact that facilities are no longer a major consideration).
I think crutchball will work at d1 because of the dearth of fundamentals at d1 (Euro players excluded). They never see trapping pressure in aau ball. Most coaches play short rotations, which accelerates fatigue. Fatigue makes great players quite mediocre.

Define "will work at D1"... What is the measuring stick of success at that level that would define it "working?"

You guys bring up system a lot. And I'm not discrediting it. But how do you define success at the next level?

[Columbuseer]

Bellarmine had a niche as being a 'D2' power within the city of Louisville.

That was their thing.

Jumping up essentially made them Duquesne to Pitt. They were a D2 novelty. The move up made them became an irrelevant afterthought in their own city.

Their arena (which is a part of the convention center) is literally within walking distance of the Louisville campus.

It is useful to look at bellarmine's d1 record pre nil and post nil. Pre nil, they were initially quite competitive.

[IUP24]

It is useful to look at bellarmine's d1 record pre nil and post nil. Pre nil, they were initially quite competitive.

They legitimately played one Division 1 season before there was NIL... lol

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I'd disagree with it being within walking distance to campus. It's about 5 miles. And if you were to walk it you are literally taking your life into your own hands. I've been to Louisville for Pitt games multiple times. The area between Bellarmine and Louisville is about as rough as you can find. Now... If you travel the other direction, the neighborhoods east of Bellarmine's campus are nice and pretty affluent. The immediate area surrounding U of L's campus is not good at all.

Unless you are thinking of a different city/school, the convention center in Louisville is in downtown towards the KFC Yum! Center. They also have another events/convention center type facility just south of Louisville's campus on the grounds of the Kentucky Derby. Knights Hall is an extremely old building on Bellarmine's campus. I was in there. It feels like you are living and breathing on the set of Hoosiers. Maybe it was an event center at one time, but I didn't get the sense that it is anymore.

Side note... I always kind of chuckle at those types of schools (and I can say the same about IUP). I collect college shot glasses and enjoy going to campuses like that to buy some when I have the opportunity. Bellarmine may have the smallest bookstore, co-op store, whatever you want to call it, that I have ever seen. I bought a shot glass and the kid working the register told me he had worked there for 3 school years and I was the first one he'd ever see buy one. Sometimes you forget how small and irrelevant some of these D2 schools are outside of our circle of degenerates LOL

I see they moved back to Knights Hall this season. The last 4-5 years they played at Freedom Hall (which is inside the Convention Center.

[Columbuseer]

Define "will work at D1"... What is the measuring stick of success at that level that would define it "working?"

You guys bring up system a lot. And I'm not discrediting it. But how do you define success at the next level?

Imho , success is winning and getting to ncaa tourney. Players love playing in the system.
Of course, one has to have d1 players in terms of skill, height, speed, strength, etc.

However, NIL is now the driving force in d1, regardless of the system.

WVU had "Press Virginia" with Javon Carter. They had the defenders and energy to play it, but not the shooters.

Rumor has it that wvu invited the wlu team down for a summer camp to get ideas before implementing Press Virginia.

[Columbuseer]

They legitimately played one Division 1 season before there was NIL... lol

1st d1 year 2020-21 14-8 record
nil approved jul1 2021.
2nd d1 year 2021-22 20-13 record
3rd d1 year 2022-23. 15-18 record but beat Louisville

[Columbuseer]

They legitimately played one Division 1 season before there was NIL... lol

They legitimately played one Division 1 season before there was NIL... lol[/QUOTE]

1st d1 year 2020-21 14-8 record
nil approved jul1 2021.
2nd d1 year 2021-22 20-13 record
3rd d1 year 2022-23. 15-18 record but beat Louisville

[IUP24]

They legitimately played one Division 1 season before there was NIL... lol

1st d1 year 2020-21 14-8 record
nil approved jul1 2021.
2nd d1 year 2021-22 20-13 record
3rd d1 year 2022-23. 15-18 record but beat Louisville

[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I follow. You are proving what I said?

[IUP24]

I see they moved back to Knights Hall this season. The last 4-5 years they played at Freedom Hall (which is inside the Convention Center.

Yeah, that was a temporary thing. Initially they were doing that due to some COVID requirements that the city of Louisville had pushed out. My understanding was that if they wanted to play with anybody in attendance they had to move to a larger venue, per the city. That's how they ended up there. Still wild to me looking back at that period of time lol.

They decided to make some renovations to the building at the time, so they stayed at Freedom Hall for an extra year or two while they were doing some of the updates. I haven't been in there since then, but prior to them, it was a nostalgic looking gym. More nostalgic than a Memorial Field House type, which just offers that high school gym feel.

Support beams were in the middle of seating areas. They had a stage, a legitimate stage, behind one of the baselines (like you would see in an elementary school cafeteria or a middle school gym). That opening is still there, but they repurposed it into a suite/entertainment area for the university president. But it's still amazingly just a few feet off the court.

One of my trips to Louisville I went a day early so I could see a Bellarmine basketball game there. It legitimately looked like you were walking into a gym that you'd see in middle of nowhere America in the 1950s. Forget the gym, the entire campus and the buildings on it look like time just kind of moved on without them. No updates. Nothing modern. Just a blah, drab campus.

[EyeoftheHawk]

Define "will work at D1"... What is the measuring stick of success at that level that would define it "working?"

You guys bring up system a lot. And I'm not discrediting it. But how do you define success at the next level?

If it were a sustainable system at that level, more teams would be doing it. How many teams ran the wishbone in the NFL despite its success at the D1 level in college? None, because it’s not going to work the same when the playing field is close to level.

I give more credit to Crutchfield being a great coach more so than the system itself. The system is no secret and it’s there for anyone to watch and duplicate if they want to try. I’ve always felt the secret sauce was getting the right guys to fit into the system and then being able to get the most out of them. You could hand Crutchfield’s team and system over to a different coach and I’m guessing the results wouldn’t be the same.

[Chuck Norris]

Heartbreaker for St Francis. I continue to hate that the first four robs two schools like them the opportunity to play on Thursday or Friday.

[IUP24]

If it were a sustainable system at that level, more teams would be doing it. How many teams ran the wishbone in the NFL despite its success at the D1 level in college? None, because it’s not going to work the same when the playing field is close to level.

I give more credit to Crutchfield being a great coach more so than the system itself. The system is no secret and it’s there for anyone to watch and duplicate if they want to try. I’ve always felt the secret sauce was getting the right guys to fit into the system and then being able to get the most out of them. You could hand Crutchfield’s team and system over to a different coach and I’m guessing the results wouldn’t be the same.

I would agree with that. The challenge, in my opinion, is that the type of player doesn't exist at the next level at the skill set you need for it to be successful. I am all for the "sum of the parts" approach, but intentionally recruiting lesser talents doesn't work against heavyweights, or schools of your equal at that level. You may win a bunch of games in a lower tier D1 conference doing it. But you'll never win enough against larger competition to make it a sustainable, repeatable system that others want to copy.

I have long said that the amazing thing about the Crutchfield approach at West Liberty was that he found kids from the middle of nowhere in Ohio. I live in Ohio (and you did for a while too). Go look back at some of his rosters. Big time guys on some of his best teams were farm kids from Amish Country. Schools graduating 70 kids or less. He got kids who just wanted to play college ball. They were unselfish. They probably all had great work ethic and were raised in good homes. You can get those types of kids who are undersized and under recruited to play that system, and win big, against podunk schools at this level.

I think we do underestimate the sheer talent and overall athleticism of players at the D1 level. And this isn't to discredit anything that Columbuseer has said. I don't disagree with his belief that fundamentals lack at that level. But I do think he may discount the overwhelming athleticism, combined with size and raw talent, regardless of whatever fundamentals they lack at that level. As you have said previously, that style of play generally gets stopped by a couple athletic, scoring big men.

What I do think is funny though is that once Crutchfield widened his recruiting network and found a few elite players willing to play that style, he won a national championship. The issue is that I just don't think you'll ever get those guys, at least enough of them, to win it all at the next level.

[IUP24]

Heartbreaker for St Francis. I continue to hate that the first four robs two schools like them the opportunity to play on Thursday or Friday.

I used to disagree with you, but the longer the First Four has gone on, the more I agree with you. Playing a 1 seed as a 16 is their "One Shining Moment."

The contrary opinion is it gives them a legitimate chance to win a game in the tournament. But I'm with you. I'd prefer that they have the 11 or 12 seeds all play for a shot at playing on Thursday or Friday.

[IUP24]

In other news today, Tobin Anderson was fired at Iona.

For those who remember, he was the coach that led 16-seed Farleigh-Dickinson to an upset win over Purdue. His stop before that was St. Thomas Aquinas. Interesting that he was let go. He had a massive rebuild job after Rick Pitino left 2 years ago and there were actually zero players on the roster. Record wise, they appeared to be competitive. I'm assuming there is more to the story.

[bballfan03]

I have watched them. The wlu system is much different and is based on sound data analytics, whereas Grinnell is a one dimensional team based almost solely on threes at the expense of defense.

Sone examples: WLU is based on sound defense and taking the first great shot with rebounders in position, whether it is within 5 seconds or 25 seconds. There are many youtube videos with Crutchfield that will make the differences quite apparent.

The WLU system wins about 85% of games and has been to NCAA tourney 16 consecutive years. Grinnell, not so much.

I found some recent videos of Grinnell games and they don't play the same style they used to. They still run the system but it's Moreso like the D2 System (not rushing shots, waiting for looks, etc), but it's not as successful as the Grinnell system was.