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IUP Women's Basketball | 2019-20

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  • IUP CRIMSON HAWKS
    replied
    Originally posted by Chuck Norris View Post

    So where do you draw the line on who gets paid? 1st team all Americans? 1st team all conference? What’s the going rate for the freshmen who haven’t played a game yet? Do you only pay the 5 star recruits? What about the kid who’s a 5 star according to one service but a 4 star according to another? And exactly how much are you paying these guys to persuade them to stay in school longer? $1000 a week probably won’t cut it.

    I think you’d create far more problems than you’d solve.
    A pretty fair question. I guess there would be a pay scale. So much for frosh with an increment each year you are on campus. Additional money for players of note-----all-conference, all-american, etc. Sign on bonuses for recruits.

    At least it would be more transparent and honest than what it is currently.

    I remember reading Brian Bosworth's book years ago and he said that when he was a "student-athlete" at Oklahoma in the 1980s he had a deluxe apartment, a corvette and a jeep in his driveway, nice clothes to wear, and money in his pocket. He held no "paying job" and none of this cost him a dime. Where do you think the money came from to provide such a lifestyle? This sort of thing goes on all the time and everywhere. I don't blame the athletes one bit. I just want things to see the light of day and have them out in the open. Make it fair to all programs across the board. Have sign on bonuses and a pay scale of some sort.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUP CRIMSON HAWKS
    replied
    Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
    Interesting discussion of a complicated issue. I think the current structure of D1 sports is inherently flawed. I suggest that we start with what is best for the athlete as the foundational premise and go forward from there. Here are some brainstorm ideas.
    1. A great athlete should not be locked out of the possibility of a huge professional income just because they are not academically qualified for college. Currently colleges are committing academic fraud and exploiting athletes.
    2. Every athlete should be given training for a middle class career, in the likely event they are not good enough to be a professional. This should be in technical trades (plumbing, electrician, diesel mechanic, etc. ) or a real academic major (not a worthless major just to maintain eligibility). Should they turn pro early, they have the right to return to technical school or college tuition free for up to 10 years after they retire to avoid coaches channeling players out of college majors for selfish reasons.
    3. Zero tuition dollars from regular students should be used to fund athletics. Donors, ticket sales, and the pro leagues would be required cover the shortfall
    4. Colleges must set union pay scales for coaches to avoid the bidding war, maybe like the GS schedule in the government. It is ridiculous the salaries being paid to coaches. It is just a game, for pete's sake. This would reduce the influence of the big money donors.
    5. Most radically, reduce The number of D1 football and basketball teams and align them with the pro teams, rather than a school. This is startng to happen with the G league in basketball. They will siphon off the best one and done players. This will reduce the donors who are controlling college athletics now for bragging rights for their alma mater and eliminate coaching bidding war at the universities and shift it to the business of the pro league. But the pro minor leagues still have to honor item 2 above and not exploit the athletes.

    It is a complex issue and the above items are just a starting point for widening the view of possible solutions. Not all are feasible. But the hypocrisy and exploitation has to stop.
    Interesting things. I really like some of your ideas.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck Norris
    replied
    Originally posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post

    NO! That is not what I am talking about. Nobody is paying any money at all under the table for the vast majority of these sports. I want to level the playing field when it comes to major football and basketball recruiting by having a set amount these top flight guys can make. It would legitimize things much more than having all of these backroom deals and program bag men.

    The NCAA should just be honest with itself and admit that they have a problem here. Why take Reggie Bush's Heisman when probably just about every single guy who won it took money or other benefits just the same as he did?

    I just don't think that you are looking at the issue pragmatically enough here.
    So where do you draw the line on who gets paid? 1st team all Americans? 1st team all conference? What’s the going rate for the freshmen who haven’t played a game yet? Do you only pay the 5 star recruits? What about the kid who’s a 5 star according to one service but a 4 star according to another? And exactly how much are you paying these guys to persuade them to stay in school longer? $1000 a week probably won’t cut it.

    I think you’d create far more problems than you’d solve.

    Leave a comment:


  • Columbuseer
    replied
    Interesting discussion of a complicated issue. I think the current structure of D1 sports is inherently flawed. I suggest that we start with what is best for the athlete as the foundational premise and go forward from there. Here are some brainstorm ideas.
    1. A great athlete should not be locked out of the possibility of a huge professional income just because they are not academically qualified for college. Currently colleges are committing academic fraud and exploiting athletes.
    2. Every athlete should be given training for a middle class career, in the likely event they are not good enough to be a professional. This should be in technical trades (plumbing, electrician, diesel mechanic, etc. ) or a real academic major (not a worthless major just to maintain eligibility). Should they turn pro early, they have the right to return to technical school or college tuition free for up to 10 years after they retire to avoid coaches channeling players out of college majors for selfish reasons.
    3. Zero tuition dollars from regular students should be used to fund athletics. Donors, ticket sales, and the pro leagues would be required cover the shortfall
    4. Colleges must set union pay scales for coaches to avoid the bidding war, maybe like the GS schedule in the government. It is ridiculous the salaries being paid to coaches. It is just a game, for pete's sake. This would reduce the influence of the big money donors.
    5. Most radically, reduce The number of D1 football and basketball teams and align them with the pro teams, rather than a school. This is startng to happen with the G league in basketball. They will siphon off the best one and done players. This will reduce the donors who are controlling college athletics now for bragging rights for their alma mater and eliminate coaching bidding war at the universities and shift it to the business of the pro league. But the pro minor leagues still have to honor item 2 above and not exploit the athletes.

    It is a complex issue and the above items are just a starting point for widening the view of possible solutions. Not all are feasible. But the hypocrisy and exploitation has to stop.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPbigINDIANS
    replied
    Originally posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post

    NO! That is not what I am talking about. Nobody is paying any money at all under the table for the vast majority of these sports. I want to level the playing field when it comes to major football and basketball recruiting by having a set amount these top flight guys can make. It would legitimize things much more than having all of these backroom deals and program bag men.

    The NCAA should just be honest with itself and admit that they have a problem here. Why take Reggie Bush's Heisman when probably just about every single guy who won it took money or other benefits just the same as he did?

    I just don't think that you are looking at the issue pragmatically enough here.

    I'll give Reggie Bush credit. He just rolled with the punches. He served his phony ban from the USC campus and gave back the Heisman. That whole Pete Carroll era at USC was so dirty.

    He's a good coach but not a good enough coach to turn a 5-5 yearly program (at the time) into world-beaters within 2 years. Reggie was clearly not the only one there to receive 'benefits'.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUP CRIMSON HAWKS
    replied
    Originally posted by IUP24 View Post

    It wouldn't.

    If you can find a way to pay an equal sum to every athlete, in every sport, at every level, I'm all for it. But that presence doesn't necessarily exist. And as I said, I'm a big free market guy. Big capitalist. Big "get what you're worth" guy. I just don't know the ultimate solution.

    The under the table deals have happened since college athletics started. Is it worse now? Maybe. But it could also just be relative to the era and society we live in also.
    NO! That is not what I am talking about. Nobody is paying any money at all under the table for the vast majority of these sports. I want to level the playing field when it comes to major football and basketball recruiting by having a set amount these top flight guys can make. It would legitimize things much more than having all of these backroom deals and program bag men.

    The NCAA should just be honest with itself and admit that they have a problem here. Why take Reggie Bush's Heisman when probably just about every single guy who won it took money or other benefits just the same as he did?

    I just don't think that you are looking at the issue pragmatically enough here.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUP CRIMSON HAWKS
    replied
    Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

    Boosters -- mega boosters -- don't play by rules. They are alpha business people who make the rules ... not abide by them. An AD making $125k a year doesn't tell them what to do.

    That guy in Blue Chips, Happy, ... that's a mythical, real guy. They exist. Look at your H2P ... the power Golden Panthers run that whole athletic department. Not officially, of course, but they call all the shots.
    Great post! Yup, the film Blue Chips absolutely nailed it. If anyone thinks that you have a great college athletic program just by playing by the rules then you have another thing coming. Same as running for high political office. What did they say that the last successful US Senate campaign cost in PA? I wish I could remember the figure but it was a crazy number like $100-200 million. Which is really nuts for a job that only pays a mere tiny fraction of that money.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPbigINDIANS
    replied
    Originally posted by IUP24 View Post

    It wouldn't.

    If you can find a way to pay an equal sum to every athlete, in every sport, at every level, I'm all for it. But that presence doesn't necessarily exist. And as I said, I'm a big free market guy. Big capitalist. Big "get what you're worth" guy. I just don't know the ultimate solution.

    The under the table deals have happened since college athletics started. Is it worse now? Maybe. But it could also just be relative to the era and society we live in also.
    Boosters -- mega boosters -- don't play by rules. They are alpha business people who make the rules ... not abide by them. An AD making $125k a year doesn't tell them what to do.

    That guy in Blue Chips, Happy, ... that's a mythical, real guy. They exist. Look at your H2P ... the power Golden Panthers run that whole athletic department. Not officially, of course, but they call all the shots.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPbigINDIANS
    replied
    Originally posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post

    It would require sweeping changes to college athletics that is for sure. I think most would agree that the NCAA is a broken down system anyways. That would be a real good place to start. I'm just saying that by lining the pocket books of the true elite stars you could keep them around longer and increase the interest and profits in the sport.
    Well, not really. If Zion must play one year at Duke ... so be it. But, on Day 1 (after that year) he's going to hit the PowerBall.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUP24
    replied
    Originally posted by Chuck Norris View Post

    Something tells me this wouldn’t work out too well, on literally every possible level.
    It wouldn't.

    If you can find a way to pay an equal sum to every athlete, in every sport, at every level, I'm all for it. But that presence doesn't necessarily exist. And as I said, I'm a big free market guy. Big capitalist. Big "get what you're worth" guy. I just don't know the ultimate solution.

    The under the table deals have happened since college athletics started. Is it worse now? Maybe. But it could also just be relative to the era and society we live in also.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUP24
    replied
    Originally posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post

    It would require sweeping changes to college athletics that is for sure. I think most would agree that the NCAA is a broken down system anyways. That would be a real good place to start. I'm just saying that by lining the pocket books of the true elite stars you could keep them around longer and increase the interest and profits in the sport.
    How does paying large salaries to college athletes, while not reducing your operating costs elsewhere result in higher profits?

    Leave a comment:


  • IUP CRIMSON HAWKS
    replied
    Originally posted by Chuck Norris View Post

    Something tells me this wouldn’t work out too well, on literally every possible level.
    It would require sweeping changes to college athletics that is for sure. I think most would agree that the NCAA is a broken down system anyways. That would be a real good place to start. I'm just saying that by lining the pocket books of the true elite stars you could keep them around longer and increase the interest and profits in the sport.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck Norris
    replied
    Originally posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post

    My premise is to NOT pay all college athletes-----but the special elite players in the sports that rake in big money aka football and men's basketball. Do you pay the five-star center at Kentucky who averages 20 points a game? Absolutely. Do you pay the gal playing field hockey or lacrosse at IUP? Absolutely not!

    The time has come to amend the rules that govern the NCAA and allow the cream of the crop to cash in and get a share of the profits that they are bringing in.

    I'm all for girls sports and I think Title IX was a very noble idea. No doubt about it. But what I am talking about seperating the money sports from the run of the mill sports that make up a college athletic department. There is football and men's basketball (in some cases maybe women's hoops and a few others may fit into the category of true revenue sports) and the rest of them that are not in the same universe.
    Something tells me this wouldn’t work out too well, on literally every possible level.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUP CRIMSON HAWKS
    replied
    Originally posted by IUP24 View Post

    You know, this who discussion is one that I really enjoy having. I am not against paying collegiate athletes, but I'm against it in the premise that you list. The biggest, and I mean biggest, misconception about college athletic programs is that they are making money hand over foot. It's a huge business, but the reality is that on the final balance sheets at the end of the year, most are scraping to break even. The big money that's pumped in for facility upgrades, massive recruiting budgets, etc. - some of it comes from how the department allocates resources, but most is all private donations. I wrote a paper about this my sophomore year of college (and granted - that was in 2012 at this point, but still). Annually, there's only about 12 schools that have athletic departments that actually break even. They are the ones you would expect... Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Florida, Oregon, Florida State, and USC. I found my paper (I still kept it to reference for conversations like this), and at the time, those were the only D1 schools raking in profits.

    The real question you have to ask is what is the purpose of revenue sports? Why do they even exist in the first place? There's multiple reasons. But without football, men's basketball, and depending on the school and the geography hockey, baseball, women's volleyball/basketball, there's no chance other sports even exist. So the money the football team brings in pays for women's water polo, or men's fencing, etc. Alabama is one of the most profitable athletic departments. They also offer almost the fewest number of sports that anybody in America offers in terms of their athletics. They have football, pump money into that, and then have the bare minimum number of sports/scholarships that they are required to have to remain in compliance with Title 9.

    College sports is a massive business. MASSIVE. But there's so much more to this discussion than simply saying "it's time to pay these guys what they are worth." 1% of collegiate athletes advance to play their sport at the professional level. Nobody requires anybody to go to college. Basketball players have the ability to go to Europe or they can even play in the G League. But hardly any of them actually do that. Why? Perhaps the college model isn't all that bad when they really look at it.

    I have very strong fiscal views. I'm a big free market guy. I'm believe in capitalism. All of that stuff. But this is one of those things where I contradict my own views and beliefs. There's numerous roadblocks to this idea of paying athletes. First off, what do you pay them and who pays them? Are we recruiting based on how much of a salary a player is offered now? The NCAA has very rigid mandates on the maximum number of hours teams can hold activities in and out of season. Teams who violate that are punished; coaches are typically fired. That's why Rich Rod got canned in Michigan. You're essentially advocating for massive salaries for players who are already receiving a degree (worth in many cases $100,000+) that is mostly paid for all while they are not required to "work" more than 20 hours in a week. Again, I get the "get what you're worth" approach, but that's absurd to me.
    My premise is to NOT pay all college athletes-----but the special elite players in the sports that rake in big money aka football and men's basketball. Do you pay the five-star center at Kentucky who averages 20 points a game? Absolutely. Do you pay the gal playing field hockey or lacrosse at IUP? Absolutely not!

    The time has come to amend the rules that govern the NCAA and allow the cream of the crop to cash in and get a share of the profits that they are bringing in.

    I'm all for girls sports and I think Title IX was a very noble idea. No doubt about it. But what I am talking about seperating the money sports from the run of the mill sports that make up a college athletic department. There is football and men's basketball (in some cases maybe women's hoops and a few others may fit into the category of true revenue sports) and the rest of them that are not in the same universe.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUP CRIMSON HAWKS
    replied
    Originally posted by IUP24 View Post

    I think all professional leagues should eliminate age requirements (they aren't education requirements which is the common talking point - you have to be a year removed from high school for the NBA and 3 years removed for the NFL). If you think you can play in the NFL at 19 if your Trevor Lawrence, go do it. I think that eliminates a ton of this. Nobody talks about paying any of the down the liners in college sports (which I view as an issue). We're talking about Zion, Trevor Lawrence, etc. "The 1%." If they want to go straight to the show because they view themselves as an unpaid serf in college, let them.
    Actually, I think there needs to be a three-year time span from high school until you can declare for the riches of the NBA----same as what the NFL has. It really does enrich the college game and it gives the student-athlete time to grow and develop. Now, if you are that special Five-star recruit and likely top ten NFL pick or NBA draft lottery then I think you need to earn compensation for your time in the college game for what you are bringing to it and your respective university.

    How lousy would it have been had Patrick Ewing did not play four years at Georgetown? How cool would it have been had the Fab Five of Michigan actually stayed for four years? I think you see what I am getting at. I am pretty adamant that the NFL and NBA should both require players to say for three years at the collegiate level. This practice has greatly enhanced the type of player that the NFL gets each April in their draft.

    Leave a comment:

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