Possible PSAC Tournament and Schedule Changes?

[IUP24]

Found a few interesting gems from last week's PSAC Men's and Women's basketball coaches meetings:

Both the men's and women's coaches unanimously approved a motion to move the PSAC tournament to a neutral site. While I get that attendance issues have long plagued PSAC tournaments considering they fall during spring break at most PSAC (at least PASSHE) schools, didn't the PSAC try this many years ago with little to no success?

Both the men's and women's coaches approved changes to start times for PSAC crossover games as follows:

• Back-to-back games on a Saturday-Sunday: 1:00 p.m.
• Back-to-back games on a Friday-Saturday: 3:00 p.m. Friday and 1:00 p.m. Saturday
• Back-to-back games on weekdays: 3:00 p.m.
• Single game on a weekend: 1:00 p.m.
• Single game on a weekday: host decision for 5:30 or 6:00 p.m. (women's)/3 p.m. (men's)

There was, however, some disagreement on this proposal:

Scheduled consecutive crossover games hosted by Eastern Division schools on (Fri/Sat) December 6 and 7 will be moved to (Sat/Sun) December 21 and 22. Scheduled single crossover game hosted by Eastern Division schools on December 21 will be moved to Saturday, December 7.

While the women's coaches passed the proposal unanimously, the men's coaches rejected the plan by a 7-4 vote.

It's very likely that the PSAC ADs addressed these proposals during their meeting yesterday with any proposed changes being brought to the PSAC Board of Directors at their May 21 meeting in Lock Haven.

I recognize that the proposals regarding time of games is for crossover games early in the year. I just don't understand this trend of wanting to play games earlier and earlier. Why in the world would somebody want to schedule a conference game at 3:00 and 5:30 in the afternoon/early evening on a weekday? I guess I understand the rationale regarding it and what the canned responses are going to be. Travel time, what time is the student athlete getting back, travel logistics with bus drivers... I get it.

Does the league intentionally do things that will prohibit fans from going to games? People who may otherwise go aren't even home from work yet. People who may be taking kids to a game haven't picked them up yet from after school activities. What are we actually doing here?

IUP is a perfect case study. They went from playing every Saturday night to playing in the afternoon. Absolutely putrid decision that killed their Saturday night vibe, atmosphere, attendance numbers, etc.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I recognize that the proposals regarding time of games is for crossover games early in the year. I just don't understand this trend of wanting to play games earlier and earlier. Why in the world would somebody want to schedule a conference game at 3:00 and 5:30 in the afternoon/early evening on a weekday? I guess I understand the rationale regarding it and what the canned responses are going to be. Travel time, what time is the student athlete getting back, travel logistics with bus drivers... I get it.

Does the league intentionally do things that will prohibit fans from going to games? People who may otherwise go aren't even home from work yet. People who may be taking kids to a game haven't picked them up yet from after school activities. What are we actually doing here?

IUP is a perfect case study. They went from playing every Saturday night to playing in the afternoon. Absolutely putrid decision that killed their Saturday night vibe, atmosphere, attendance numbers, etc.

Don't get me started on this switch to 3 p.m.

In short, it was the dumbest thing I've seen IUP do in a very long time.

Best atmosphere - by far - in the PSAC turned in to Saturday afternoon bingo. Joke.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

My exact thoughts. Another idea somewhat in between is naming a host site within the conference that alternates east/west similar to what they do with most other sports.

I'll sound like a Homer but the KCAC is the obvious choice in the West. It's the best venue. It has multiple hotels. Ample restaurants.

[IUP24]

I'll sound like a Homer but the KCAC is the obvious choice in the West. It's the best venue. It has multiple hotels. Ample restaurants.

I didn't want to be the one to post it. Glad you did.

IUP or Cal are the best two venues in the league. Size is perfect for having multiple games in a back to back to back, etc. setting. Towns are large enough. With Cal you have enough neighboring stuff in the Mon Valley. Indiana is a big enough community. I know not everyone will like that though.

[Ship69]

I didn't want to be the one to post it. Glad you did.

IUP or Cal are the best two venues in the league. Size is perfect for having multiple games in a back to back to back, etc. setting. Towns are large enough. With Cal you have enough neighboring stuff in the Mon Valley. Indiana is a big enough community. I know not everyone will like that though.

Problem is, they are not neutral sites. Nobody would argue that they're not nice arenas.

[Fightingscot82]

I'll sound like a Homer but the KCAC is the obvious choice in the West. It's the best venue. It has multiple hotels. Ample restaurants.

Oh totally. But if Slippery Rock can host the track championships (much more logistics) then most of our schools could host a basketball tournament.

[IUP24]

Problem is, they are not neutral sites. Nobody would argue that they're not nice arenas.

And WesBanco Arena in Wheeling, just 10 miles from West Liberty's campus is? (You don't need to provide a response to that - I get it. I know it's a "neutral" venue)

I think the point is that you need a venue that is the right size to host multiple games in a day in close succession. You need enough facilities from a locker room standpoint. You need the right size venue. And you need an area capable of accommodating.

I just can't see a scenario where they play the PSAC Tournament at North Allegheny high school. I understand the rationale presented, but that just is never going to happen. And the PSAC would be even more of an afterthought or laughingstock if they did that.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

And WesBanco Arena in Wheeling, just 10 miles from West Liberty's campus is? (You don't need to provide a response to that - I get it. I know it's a "neutral" venue)

I think the point is that you need a venue that is the right size to host multiple games in a day in close succession. You need enough facilities from a locker room standpoint. You need the right size venue. And you need an area capable of accommodating.

I just can't see a scenario where they play the PSAC Tournament at North Allegheny high school. I understand the rationale presented, but that just is never going to happen. And the PSAC would be even more of an afterthought or laughingstock if they did that.

Yeah, WL is set up nice with WesBanco.

Agreed on the no high school. Aside from the few actual fans, the rest of the world already sees D2 as 13th grade. Playing in a high school gym wouldn't be good for the image.

[Ship69]

And WesBanco Arena in Wheeling, just 10 miles from West Liberty's campus is? (You don't need to provide a response to that - I get it. I know it's a "neutral" venue)

I think the point is that you need a venue that is the right size to host multiple games in a day in close succession. You need enough facilities from a locker room standpoint. You need the right size venue. And you need an area capable of accommodating.

I just can't see a scenario where they play the PSAC Tournament at North Allegheny high school. I understand the rationale presented, but that just is never going to happen. And the PSAC would be even more of an afterthought or laughingstock if they did that.

Hard to see how they could be any more of an afterthought, but OK.

[Chuck Norris]

I recognize that the proposals regarding time of games is for crossover games early in the year. I just don't understand this trend of wanting to play games earlier and earlier. Why in the world would somebody want to schedule a conference game at 3:00 and 5:30 in the afternoon/early evening on a weekday? I guess I understand the rationale regarding it and what the canned responses are going to be. Travel time, what time is the student athlete getting back, travel logistics with bus drivers... I get it.

Does the league intentionally do things that will prohibit fans from going to games? People who may otherwise go aren't even home from work yet. People who may be taking kids to a game haven't picked them up yet from after school activities. What are we actually doing here?

IUP is a perfect case study. They went from playing every Saturday night to playing in the afternoon. Absolutely putrid decision that killed their Saturday night vibe, atmosphere, attendance numbers, etc.

I’m ready for IUP to make the move to D1. Hopefully seeing Mercyhurst in the Big Dance within the next decade will inspire them to make the jump.

[Sec10-A-14]

no one considered the Erie Ins Arena seats 6800 for Basketball, 5,000 hotel rooms, had sell out crowds When Erie Bayhawks were in town, (left bec team bought by Atlanta and moved to Ga) Townies will support a good tournament. When they had D2 woman nat'l finals in Erie had crowds up to 4000.
Not saying they host every year but worthy of consideration. Gannon had sell out crowds at several games this yr.

[Ship69]

no one considered the Erie Ins Arena seats 6800 for Basketball, 5,000 hotel rooms, had sell out crowds When Erie Bayhawks were in town, (left bec team bought by Atlanta and moved to Ga) Townies will support a good tournament. When they had D2 woman nat'l finals in Erie had crowds up to 4000.
Not saying they host every year but worthy of consideration. Gannon had sell out crowds at several games this yr.

If you're going to go to a neutral site, you'd have to get something more centrally located than that.

[bballfan03]

I recognize that the proposals regarding time of games is for crossover games early in the year. I just don't understand this trend of wanting to play games earlier and earlier. Why in the world would somebody want to schedule a conference game at 3:00 and 5:30 in the afternoon/early evening on a weekday? I guess I understand the rationale regarding it and what the canned responses are going to be. Travel time, what time is the student athlete getting back, travel logistics with bus drivers... I get it.

Does the league intentionally do things that will prohibit fans from going to games? People who may otherwise go aren't even home from work yet. People who may be taking kids to a game haven't picked them up yet from after school activities. What are we actually doing here?

IUP is a perfect case study. They went from playing every Saturday night to playing in the afternoon. Absolutely putrid decision that killed their Saturday night vibe, atmosphere, attendance numbers, etc.

Again, PSAC obviously doesn't put much thought into their decisions I'm decided on. Which is why I dread a neutral site. It'll end up being hours away from everyone probably (or like Hershey and cater to the East schools) or it'll be some cheap gym that someone knows a guy who knows a guy.

When Reilly started at Gannon they were still doing 6pm and 8pm games.. and Reilly had some of the highest student athlete GPAs (collectively) so to say it's definitely hurting the players getting home late 1-2x a week is a bit much. They did the 6pm and 8pm games when traveling to the Upper Peninsula!!

[ctrabs74]

Again, PSAC obviously doesn't put much thought into their decisions I'm decided on. Which is why I dread a neutral site. It'll end up being hours away from everyone probably (or like Hershey and cater to the East schools) or it'll be some cheap gym that someone knows a guy who knows a guy.

When Reilly started at Gannon they were still doing 6pm and 8pm games.. and Reilly had some of the highest student athlete GPAs (collectively) so to say it's definitely hurting the players getting home late 1-2x a week is a bit much. They did the 6pm and 8pm games when traveling to the Upper Peninsula!!

6pm and 8pm start times were more common in the PSAC East around 2010-2014 as best as can recall (East Stroudsburg, Lock Haven, Millersville, Shippensburg and West Chester, at the time, opted for 6pm/8pm). As I recall, the only PSAC West school who did the 6pm/8pm start times was Slippery Rock; everyone else in the West was 5:30/7:30.

From the PSAC Men's Basketball Operating Code:

2.1.3 Game Times: Wednesday (or weekday) – PSAC doubleheader games shall not begin before 5:30p.m., and may not start any later than 6 p.m. Saturday – PSAC doubleheader games shall not beginbefore 1 p.m. or later than 6 p.m

[WarriorVoice]

Interesting. If they are going to a neutral site, what they ought to do is find a nice venue in the central part ey of the state and play at that site from the quarterfinals on. Play the quarters on Friday, the semis on Saturday, and the title game on Sunday. Doubt they would do that, though. If they don't want to play at a PSAC site, they ought to find something like a 6A high school that has a nice gym facility and promote the hell out of the tournament as a special event for that community. Given the average attendance we've had, they'd get lost in a really large arena such as the Giant Center in Hershey. I've often thought it would be great if the PSAC could put on charity games or tournaments, but I guess the NCAA frowns on that these days. You can gamble like crazy on games, but can't hold charity events.

There's no way the coaches will go for playing tourney games on 3 straight days.