IUP Women’s Basketball

[IUPalum]

That's definitely not happening, especially in women's BB.

The reasons GV had this team compiled was 1) 5 seniors, including four 5th years who all got better together, and 2) they all chose to stay together and WIN rather than play at a middling MAC school and go .500.

We are talking about Grand Valley as a whole. Not just the women's basketball team. By the way, there is more going on at Grand Valley to keep that girls team together than you'll ever know.

[iupgroundhog]

By the way, there is more going on at Grand Valley to keep that girls team together than you'll ever know.

Yeah, there might be. In the Elite Eight, they beat Carson-Newman (a regional champion) by 48 points, 96-48 Then they beat UAH by 61-39. In the finals, they beat IUP 72-49. The final score of that could have been worse. During the regular season, GVSU won a game 93-21. So, I don't know the inside scoop and I don't want to start any unfounded rumors. There's nothing wrong with being really good. But that game yesterday was surprising to me because it was not a competitive game. IUP battled, but there were 2 different levels.

[IUP24]

True. IUP football fans have talked about GVSU's size for over 30 years. But complaining about GVSU's advantages isn't much different than the arguments which led to the "IUP Rule" in the PSAC in the '90's. GVSU has advantages but they stay within the NCAA rules.

Going back many years, I thought GVSU should move up in division, but given the state of major college sports today I can't blame them for choosing to stay in D2.

BTW, I am not hearing people saying it's unfair. Seems like people are just stating the obvious. GVSU is by far the largest D2 school.

The only thing that makes GVSU unique is that given the advantages that they have, they win - at basically everything.

Shepherd has some thing where they are able to pull students from like 6 states, give those students “in state” tuition, and work that within the scholarship limit from a recruiting perspective. It’s an advantage, sure. And when their football team was really good, people complained and brought it up, but they never won the last game.

There’s a lot of good programs. There’s many with financial advantages and other advantageous factors that schools even at the highest levels enjoy. But very, very few actually win - and do it regularly in nearly every sport. GVSU is in very small company in college athletics.

[Bballfan]

BTW, I am not hearing people saying it's unfair. Seems like people are just stating the obvious. GVSU is by far the largest D2 school.

They are playing within the rules as written, yes. But a large state school as they are gives them a number of advantages over most other D2's in the country.

For the women's team they were also stacked with a number of 5th year players. Not all schools have the ability to redshirt players and "stack them.in the wings" like Grand Valley did. We are also talking about a number of players that a couple years ago only lost to Ohio State by 17. And Ohio State is a top 25 womens team! Just incredible the talent they stacked in this age of college sports. And I think they were better last year!

[IUP24]

Yeah, there might be. In the Elite Eight, they beat Carson-Newman (a regional champion) by 48 points, 96-48 Then they beat UAH by 61-39. In the finals, they beat IUP 72-49. The final score of that could have been worse. During the regular season, GVSU won a game 93-21. So, I don't know the inside scoop and I don't want to start any unfounded rumors. There's nothing wrong with being really good. But that game yesterday was surprising to me because it was not a competitive game. IUP battled, but there were 2 different levels.

Yeah, I’m with you. If somebody has a rumor or would like to actually share something, they should. It’s a message board. I hate speaking in code.

I’m just disappointed that when IUP goes on their runs, they always run into THAT team. IUP seems to go deep using team play, good coaching, some decent performances individually, some luck and bounces, etc. They are never the team that just runs roughshod over everybody. There’s always some strain getting there. And when they inevitably get to the end of the road, it’s like they never even belonged there. That’s what disappoints me.

I think a lot of programs would like to have what we do, but I’d trade winning a national title for some lean years if that’s what it took.

[EyeoftheHawk]

I don’t take anything away from GVSU. They had a great team and several seniors with a lot of big game experience, and they were expected to win. Yes, there’s no doubt the resources aren’t the same or even close, but that’s life and there will never be a completely even playing field.

Focusing on IUP, that was one hell of a run and it ends up being the best team in school history. I don’t want that to be lost on anyone. I absolutely think they could play a competitive game with GVSU, but yesterday wasn’t that day. Anyone with two eyes could see that they just had some weapons IUP couldn’t match up with. That said, all Craig has done is get a little bit better every year. If you remember, it was only a couple years ago when there were only about 8-9 players left once several quit the team and they had to bring in a couple girls from the general campus population just to have enough to practice. Last year they lost in the regional finals. This year they are PSAC and Atlantic Region champions and played in the title game.

I think Craig is a pretty darned good X’s and O’s guy and he did a great job putting this team together with good recruiting and transfers. If he sticks around, IUP has a legit shot to cut down the nets within the next couple seasons. He saw what he needed to get by Gannon and he built for it. He now saw what he needs to compete with GVSU, and he’ll build for it. The biggest question is whether he stays long enough to make that happen. I imagine he’ll have some opportunities if he wants to look at them.

One last word on resources. GVSU had 7-8 coaches on the bench yesterday. IUP had Craig and Molly. It sure would help to have another set of eyes or two to help.

[Bballfan]

I know in the later half of the 2010's IUP women first run into the Ashland buzzsaw in the Final Four. I think the next season they lost to a team from Oklahoma in the Final Four. That might have been the year they had the best shot at a title.

Cal UP pulled it off. But definitely takes some luck to win it all. And as dominate as Grand Valley seemed, they did lose a game this season. So given the right circumstances it was possible.

[Chuck Norris]

I don’t take anything away from GVSU. They had a great team and several seniors with a lot of big game experience, and they were expected to win. Yes, there’s no doubt the resources aren’t the same or even close, but that’s life and there will never be a completely even playing field.

Focusing on IUP, that was one hell of a run and it ends up being the best team in school history. I don’t want that to be lost on anyone. I absolutely think they could play a competitive game with GVSU, but yesterday wasn’t that day. Anyone with two eyes could see that they just had some weapons IUP couldn’t match up with. That said, all Craig has done is get a little bit better every year. If you remember, it was only a couple years ago when there were only about 8-9 players left once several quit the team and they had to bring in a couple girls from the general campus population just to have enough to practice. Last year they lost in the regional finals. This year they are PSAC and Atlantic Region champions and played in the title game.

I think Craig is a pretty darned good X’s and O’s guy and he did a great job putting this team together with good recruiting and transfers. If he sticks around, IUP has a legit shot to cut down the nets within the next couple seasons. He saw what he needed to get by Gannon and he built for it. He now saw what he needs to compete with GVSU, and he’ll build for it. The biggest question is whether he stays long enough to make that happen. I imagine he’ll have some opportunities if he wants to look at them.

One last word on resources. GVSU had 7-8 coaches on the bench yesterday. IUP had Craig and Molly. It sure would help to have another set of eyes or two to help.

I noticed the coaches too. And I’d be real surprised if at least one of them wasn’t a strength and conditioning coach. That team wasn’t just tall. Those were big, strong, broad shouldered women. IUP looked big and strong against pretty much everybody they played. Yesterday they looked like young girls.

[iupgroundhog]

I don’t take anything away from GVSU. They had a great team and several seniors with a lot of big game experience, and they were expected to win. Yes, there’s no doubt the resources aren’t the same or even close, but that’s life and there will never be a completely even playing field.

Focusing on IUP, that was one hell of a run and it ends up being the best team in school history. I don’t want that to be lost on anyone. I absolutely think they could play a competitive game with GVSU, but yesterday wasn’t that day. Anyone with two eyes could see that they just had some weapons IUP couldn’t match up with. That said, all Craig has done is get a little bit better every year. If you remember, it was only a couple years ago when there were only about 8-9 players left once several quit the team and they had to bring in a couple girls from the general campus population just to have enough to practice. Last year they lost in the regional finals. This year they are PSAC and Atlantic Region champions and played in the title game.

I think Craig is a pretty darned good X’s and O’s guy and he did a great job putting this team together with good recruiting and transfers. If he sticks around, IUP has a legit shot to cut down the nets within the next couple seasons. He saw what he needed to get by Gannon and he built for it. He now saw what he needs to compete with GVSU, and he’ll build for it. The biggest question is whether he stays long enough to make that happen. I imagine he’ll have some opportunities if he wants to look at them.

One last word on resources. GVSU had 7-8 coaches on the bench yesterday. IUP had Craig and Molly. It sure would help to have another set of eyes or two to help.

Agreed. And I will say that I have never watched as much Women's Basketball as I did in the last few weeks since the PSAC Championships.

[iupgroundhog]

I know in the later half of the 2010's IUP women first run into the Ashland buzzsaw in the Final Four. I think the next season they lost to a team from Oklahoma in the Final Four. That might have been the year they had the best shot at a title.

Cal UP pulled it off. But definitely takes some luck to win it all. And as dominate as Grand Valley seemed, they did lose a game this season. So given the right circumstances it was possible.

Yes, and in the conference playoffs they avenged that 1 point loss to Wayne State with a 20 point victory.

[LakerDad]

I know in the later half of the 2010's IUP women first run into the Ashland buzzsaw in the Final Four. I think the next season they lost to a team from Oklahoma in the Final Four. That might have been the year they had the best shot at a title.

Cal UP pulled it off. But definitely takes some luck to win it all. And as dominate as Grand Valley seemed, they did lose a game this season. So given the right circumstances it was possible.

The circumstances were ripe for a loss against UAH when GV couldn't make a layup, went 2 for 17 on 3's, and shot 28%. If that happened yesterday, then the game would have been close for sure.

When you haven't played GV, you don't know the speed and athleticism that's coming. You cannot practice for it. All 3 losing coaches acknowledged that in their post-game pressers. Wayne State knew what to expect - and gave GV two 1 point games this year and went 1-1 in conference play.

[Bballfan]

Yep. Even Northwood, who only lost to GV by 10 in the regional final played them in the regular season and lost by 25. Teams that play them multiple times do seem to do better than any other teams across the country.

[EastStroud13]

What GVSU did is not impressive. That's what they're supposed to do, based on the institutional resources available to them. They should win the national championship in every sport every year, and when they don't is a failure.

Congrats to IUP for a great run from a program that actually looks like it belongs in D2.

[Redwing]

True. IUP football fans have talked about GVSU's size for over 30 years. But complaining about GVSU's advantages isn't much different than the arguments which led to the "IUP Rule" in the PSAC in the '90's. GVSU has advantages but they stay within the NCAA rules.

Going back many years, I thought GVSU should move up in division, but given the state of major college sports today I can't blame them for choosing to stay in D2.

BTW, I am not hearing people saying it's unfair. Seems like people are just stating the obvious. GVSU is by far the largest D2 school.

Thank you by acknowledging that GV plays by the rules. As for it being the largest school, Not true. Wayne St (mi) is for one. True, GV's enrollment is over 20k. But this isn't HS. Any school can recruit. And GV does not charge an athletic fee to its student body. GV's budget, though large, isn't the largest and is equivalent to others on a sport by sport basis. This is especially true for Wbball. As for NIL, GV's alumni base isn't that large as most of GV's growth has come over the last decade. Add in, that there are few legacy grads, it's not like there are many deep pockets to pay up those NIL numbers. And as for it being a public institution, GV, as well as SVSU, are some of the lowest per pupil funded students in the state. FWIW, WSU and Mi Tech are some of the highest funded per pupil schools in MI. And yet GVs tuitions are competitive and on the low side. It's not due to state funding that GV's tuition is what it is.

Let's just admit that when Tim Selgo was the AD, he established a great model for D2 athletics. Becker, the current AD, has continued to guide this athletic ship successfully. True, I'm a fan, but I may as well throw some other facts out there.

[IUP24]

Thank you by acknowledging that GV plays by the rules. As for it being the largest school, Not true. Wayne St (mi) is for one. True, GV's enrollment is over 20k. But this isn't HS. Any school can recruit. And GV does not charge an athletic fee to its student body. GV's budget, though large, isn't the largest and is equivalent to others on a sport by sport basis. This is especially true for Wbball. As for NIL, GV's alumni base isn't that large as most of GV's growth has come over the last decade. Add in, that there are few legacy grads, it's not like there are many deep pockets to pay up those NIL numbers. And as for it being a public institution, GV, as well as SVSU, are some of the lowest per pupil funded students in the state. FWIW, WSU and Mi Tech are some of the highest funded per pupil schools in MI. And yet GVs tuitions are competitive and on the low side. It's not due to state funding that GV's tuition is what it is.

Let's just admit that when Tim Selgo was the AD, he established a great model for D2 athletics. Becker, the current AD, has continued to guide this athletic ship successfully. True, I'm a fan, but I may as well throw some other facts out there.

I think the team on Saturday that walked onto the floor probably could have won multiple women’s mid major conferences in the Division 1 level. I take nothing away from them, but I think that’s the reality of how good they are. And you just have to acknowledge how that’s going to make people feel when their team’s on the losing end of a buzzsaw like that - especially at this level.

Life isn’t fair. There’s not close to an even playing field in Division 1 athletics. It’s not a level playing field in D2 either. The talk about models is fair, but most schools are operating in a far different world and environment than what you are describing. IUP is struggling financially like many schools. There’s not a quick fix or a “model” that will help grow their enrollment by 80-120% over the next 10 years, or fix their financial limitations, or help the PASSHE schools in general.

And understand I’m not complaining, but the comment above that basically said, “IUP looks like a Division 2 team” kinda summed it up. That was their chance to win a national championship, and they basically ran into Ohio State. I take nothing away from the women who were in uniform for GVSU. Tremendous team.