Video: Should Division II Overhaul the Playoff System? - with Mike Racy

[GorillaTeacher]

We can't argue utilizing numbers less, and then argue against bias. The formulas are least biased, however are quite game-able. Committees are admittedly biased, but probably got it right from the get go. Football doesn't happen in a vacuum, so recent history and performance needs to be taken into account when seeding and ranking.

[Predatory Primates]

Northwest Missouri
Pitt State
Ferris Bueller
Grand Valley
Valdosta State
West Florida
Delta State

Ok...the Elite 7. Maybe being off by one confused you. :-)

These 7 teams will most likely get every playoff game at home in a "fix" if they qualify if we go to an FCS style bracket...I mean some of them already do the D2 regional format.

"Lets make it like FCS"

North Dakota State has played 35 playoff games (not including the finals in Texastan) since 2011.

34 of them have been played in Fargo. They won 33 times.

They played exactly one playoff game on the road as a visiting team.

They lost.

See my point?

It why I want to see those teams at the top travel to places they never go...I mean you all say the home field doesn't matter...okay so 13-0 Northwest can forego the home playoff game and travel to IUP for the game instead...because the home field really doesn't matter much...and why not let these Midwestern kids see new places they have never seen before to give them a "better experience"

:-)

Home field is worth about 3 points in modern football, best case. That's pretty much universally accepted.

The team with the better resume should get the home field.

It's funny that you used NW as an example. They are one of the only teams to have ever won a NC entirely on the road.

Conversely, NDSU didn't lose on the road because they were on the road. They were on the road because they weren't the better team to begin with.

That isn't always the case in D2. Pitt beat NDSU twice at home in the 90s, by 1 and 2 points. NDSU probably would have won those in Fargo.

If the resumes and quality of play are pretty equal, it's a coin flip as to who hosts. If not the better team should host.

[Matt Witwicki]

Northwest Missouri
Pitt State
Ferris Bueller
Grand Valley
Valdosta State
West Florida
Delta State

Ok...the Elite 7. Maybe being off by one confused you. :-)

These 7 teams will most likely get every playoff game at home in a "fix" if they qualify if we go to an FCS style bracket...I mean some of them already do the D2 regional format.

"Lets make it like FCS"

North Dakota State has played 35 playoff games (not including the finals in Texastan) since 2011.

34 of them have been played in Fargo. They won 33 times.

They played exactly one playoff game on the road as a visiting team.

They lost.

See my point?

It why I want to see those teams at the top travel to places they never go...I mean you all say the home field doesn't matter...okay so 13-0 Northwest can forego the home playoff game and travel to IUP for the game instead...because the home field really doesn't matter much...and why not let these Midwestern kids see new places they have never seen before to give them a "better experience"

:-)

-Let's keep in mind both West Florida and Tex A&M Commerce won on the road in the playoffs starting in R1 and won a natty doing so. 2017 and 2019. That's twice in the last five football seasons played in D2.
-Colorado Mines made the natty last year and won at top seeded Angelo State.
-Ferris won on the road at GVSU last year in the playoffs.

It feels like you want the superior football teams to travel to SR1 in the postseason..just because it doesn't happen as often. That doesn't seem like strong reasoning.

While I couldn't care less about NDSU....there's a reason they've won in Texas 9 out of 10 times (or whatever it is) by an average margin of 14 points or more....it's simply because they are the better football team = if they are dominating in the championship games one would think they'd probably have earned the right for home games in the playoffs along the way.

I think we can see how/why teams earn the right for home games in the playoffs but at the D2 level it certainly hasn't equated into automatically winning national championships. In 2022 GVSU and Angelo were on the inside track for home games throughout the dance..neither made it to the semis.

[GorillaTeacher]

Ok so let’s change it up and put really good teams from the Nidwest and South on the road from time to time..for the “better experience”.

Better experience?

[IUPNation]

Grand valley just lost at home. Does NDSU win because they’re the home team or is it because they’re the Alabama of FCS? There are certainly benefits to being the home team, but not as pronounced as what you believe. The bias is a feature, not a bug. It’s what tells the story that the spreadsheets don’t.

Ok so let’s change it up and put really good teams from the Nidwest and South on the road from time to time in the Norrheast..for the “better experience”. It doesn’t matter where the game played right?

[Ram040506]

How about combining 1/2 anbd 3/4 into two big brackets?

I like this idea too. Not that it matters entirely, but I'd say combine the strongest/weakest so Region 1 and 3 together. Would have shook out like this possibly this year:

Byes- GV/Ferris (1/2 ranking)

#3 Pitt St vs #14 New Haven
#4IUP vs #13 Rock
#5 Indy vs #12 NWMS
#6 OB vs #11 Notre Dame
#7 Shepherd vs #10 Davenport- Winner gets FS
#8 Assumption vs #9 Ashland- winner gets GV

This still doesn't fix that Region 3 is stacked and had arguably the best 4 teams in it. This further emphasizes that if regionality is going to persist in any form, Region 3 needs a makeover of sorts.

[Matt Witwicki]

I'm not saying that flights are going to be eliminated, but I still don't really see the reasoning behind "pre-scheduling" a guaranteed flight just to get a unique matchup. You can seed the top 8 teams and then still distribute the rest of the teams regionally. Whichever region gets most of the SR1 teams is still going to be the easiest most likely, but at least now there's probably a GVSU or Ferris in that quadrant acting as a filter.

We aren't trying to schedule a unique matchup.

Let's break down the 16 teams like to make the second round..of course there's gonna be upsets, but let's just use the favorites to project things. Keeping in mind, the NCAA had 4 flights in it's own second round..and we'd have the exact same = not the additional travel that's feared.

Matchups in R2 that don't require a flight..
UIndy at GVSU (1)
MSU Mankato at Pitt (4)
Benedict at West FLA (5)
Ashland at Ferris (2)


Here are the remaining teams..
NWMSU
IUP
Shepherd
VUU
Angelo State - TX (3)
OBU - AR (6)
Delta State - MS (7)
CSM - CO (8)

Since the better seeds would host (like any traditional bracket layout), teams like IUP and Shepherd would now need to travel via a flight in R2 like the rest of the country has been doing for a good while now. Once the 2nd round hits there's often a 50/50 chance of air travel needed in the existing system and it would be no different in the FCS system. The FCS system is better because you wouldn't have 5 repeat matchups in R1 like we did this year....you'd have 0.

This isn't "pre-scheduling" anything....it's actually no different than how March Madness is done..it's the creation of a bracket.

[KleShreen]

Northwest Missouri
Pitt State
Ferris Bueller
Grand Valley
Valdosta State
West Florida
Delta State

Ok...the Elite 7. Maybe being off by one confused you. :-)

These 7 teams will most likely get every playoff game at home in a "fix" if they qualify if we go to an FCS style bracket...I mean some of them already do the D2 regional format.

"Lets make it like FCS"

North Dakota State has played 35 playoff games (not including the finals in Texastan) since 2011.

34 of them have been played in Fargo. They won 33 times.

They played exactly one playoff game on the road as a visiting team.

They lost.

See my point?

It why I want to see those teams at the top travel to places they never go...I mean you all say the home field doesn't matter...okay so 13-0 Northwest can forego the home playoff game and travel to IUP for the game instead...because the home field really doesn't matter much...and why not let these Midwestern kids see new places they have never seen before to give them a "better experience"

:-)

If other schools challenge themselves in non-conference play, they'll host playoff games. As it stands, the "good" schools happen to also be the ones that are challenging themselves in non-conference play to give themselves the advantage in the numbers. If IUP goes undefeated and beats a Colorado Mines/Angelo/Delta/UWF/GV in non-conference play, IUP will host a home playoff semifinal game. Instead, with an open week one each of the last two seasons, IUP has opted to just not play anybody.

[GorillaTeacher]

Grand valley just lost at home. Does NDSU win because they’re the home team or is it because they’re the Alabama of FCS? There are certainly benefits to being the home team, but not as pronounced as what you believe. The bias is a feature, not a bug. It’s what tells the story that the spreadsheets don’t.

[Predatory Primates]

It's such a long way to travel compared to playing, say, the Davenport/UIndy winner. Personally, I just don't see the gain.

I'm fine with rematches in the playoffs in the second/third round. They happen. If the idea is to keep national contenders from the same conference apart from each other (say GVSU and Ferris), then seed the top 8 teams first and make them the "anchors" of each region.

I think you may have that opinion because of the region you are in. Your conference and region are pretty condensed compared to the rest of the Country.

[IUPNation]

Who?

Northwest Missouri
Pitt State
Ferris Bueller
Grand Valley
Valdosta State
West Florida
Delta State

Ok...the Elite 7. Maybe being off by one confused you. :-)

These 7 teams will most likely get every playoff game at home in a "fix" if they qualify if we go to an FCS style bracket...I mean some of them already do the D2 regional format.

"Lets make it like FCS"

North Dakota State has played 35 playoff games (not including the finals in Texastan) since 2011.

34 of them have been played in Fargo. They won 33 times.

They played exactly one playoff game on the road as a visiting team.

They lost.

See my point?

It why I want to see those teams at the top travel to places they never go...I mean you all say the home field doesn't matter...okay so 13-0 Northwest can forego the home playoff game and travel to IUP for the game instead...because the home field really doesn't matter much...and why not let these Midwestern kids see new places they have never seen before to give them a "better experience"

:-)

[Brandon]

How many times have any of the Elite 8 lost a home semi final game?

Who?

[IUPNation]

What D2 sports play all of their playoffs at a neutral site? I wasn't aware.

There aren't neutral site games (minus the championship) in the FCS, D3, or the NAIA. FBS only has neutral site semifinal games because of the relationship with the bowl games.

Because I don't assume that the same teams that are good now will always be good or the teams that are bad now will always be bad.

No. That's you projecting.

You say you don't like the criteria that's used now and you worry about bias in the future. It would seem you'll only be satisfied if you pick the teams and the locations of their games.

I would do a pretty hood job. If I can keep busy Turnpike travel plazas in gas I can sort out a D2 playoff field.

:-)

[IUPNation]

Isn’t the peach bowl in Georgia? They’ve been in the super dome?

in D2 the finals are neutral site unless you’re Florence Alabama 10 years ago.

If you want to keep revenue as high as it can be, they need to be at location, not neutral. Attendance is already poor for playoffs, why make it worse? I think the home field advantage is overstated. You don’t get that much extra time, because of practice rules and class.

football is like that at all levels for playoffs. A team gets a home game each round until finals.

Basketball is similar as well. Early rounds at locations, later rounds at host sites

How many times have any of the Elite 8 lost a home semi final game?

[Brandon]

Every other sport in D2 plays part or all of their playoffs at a neutral site. Football only does it for the finals…most years.

Why should 6-8 schools get every home semi final game going forward? You don’t see that as harmful.

If you all get your way there will never be a semi final game played on a Northeast campus ever again even if they earned it.

Once you make it easy for a bias to take hold in the process it will be hard to change. Even FBS doesn’t have their Final Four on a campus. if they did. The SEC would get every home game.

What D2 sports play all of their playoffs at a neutral site? I wasn't aware.

There aren't neutral site games (minus the championship) in the FCS, D3, or the NAIA. FBS only has neutral site semifinal games because of the relationship with the bowl games.

Because I don't assume that the same teams that are good now will always be good or the teams that are bad now will always be bad.

No. That's you projecting.

You say you don't like the criteria that's used now and you worry about bias in the future. It would seem you'll only be satisfied if you pick the teams and the locations of their games.