All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

[Fightingscot82]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

So you're saying that a number of the schools are little more than make-work projects for professors, administrators and support staff at the university and local businesses who feed on the dollars the school provides? I hope that isn't the case!

Yeah but its deeper than you describe. Look at Mansfield - there's not much going on in that area but the university employs roughly 350 people. Its safe to assume that a lot of them make above the county's average income of $49,745. If Mansfield closes, that's not just good paying jobs but there's a ripple effect of spouse's jobs and access to things like quality healthcare. You'll also see home values decrease as the amount of vacant housing stock increases. People won't just have to move but they also won't be able to sell their house at true value. Then when the local tax-based entities lose tax revenue they further cut services like emergency response and police. Something unique is that with the exception of Cheyney each PASSHE university was independently founded by its surrounding community only to be acquired by the state in the early 1900s. Their locations weren't decided by someone in Harrisburg or State College or a wealthy donor saying he wanted a college in his town.

If we look at history, I don't think enrollment matters as long as the campus can balance its budget. Shouldn't that be all that matters? If state park usage was down 20% over five years would the legislature spend $200k studying what to do with them?

[boatcapt]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

Yeah but its deeper than you describe. Look at Mansfield - there's not much going on in that area but the university employs roughly 350 people. Its safe to assume that a lot of them make above the county's average income of $49,745. If Mansfield closes, that's not just good paying jobs but there's a ripple effect of spouse's jobs and access to things like quality healthcare. You'll also see home values decrease as the amount of vacant housing stock increases. People won't just have to move but they also won't be able to sell their house at true value. Then when the local tax-based entities lose tax revenue they further cut services like emergency response and police. Something unique is that with the exception of Cheyney each PASSHE university was independently founded by its surrounding community only to be acquired by the state in the early 1900s. Their locations weren't decided by someone in Harrisburg or State College or a wealthy donor saying he wanted a college in his town.

If we look at history, I don't think enrollment matters as long as the campus can balance its budget. Shouldn't that be all that matters? If state park usage was down 20% over five years would the legislature spend $200k studying what to do with them?

It's never a pleasant situation when a towns "industry" outlives its legitimate usefulness/purpose...but even less "pleasant" is for the state to prop the industry up at tax payers expense.

If state wide park usage was down 20%, they probably wouldn't bring in an outside consultant to do a study...they would probably just close the most under performing parks.

Balancing the budget is the real problem. Decreasing enrolment over an extended period almost demands cuts in staff (academic, administrative and support) and shuttering of buildings. PASSHE schools seem to be unwilling or unable to do this. Eventually they will (have??) reach a breaking point were the only way to save a portion of the system is through massive draconian cuts.

[Bart]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

It's never a pleasant situation when a towns "industry" outlives its legitimate usefulness/purpose...but even less "pleasant" is for the state to prop the industry up at tax payers expense.

If state wide park usage was down 20%, they probably wouldn't bring in an outside consultant to do a study...they would probably just close the most under performing parks.

Balancing the budget is the real problem. Decreasing enrolment over an extended period almost demands cuts in staff (academic, administrative and support) and shuttering of buildings. PASSHE schools seem to be unwilling or unable to do this. Eventually they will (have??) reach a breaking point were the only way to save a portion of the system is through massive draconian cuts.

State parks generally don't go out of business despite having free admission and low camping fees. I can't recall a state or federal park ever closing, despite the number of visitors. Alaska has many protected parks that few people visit. Parks do occasionally close for overuse. People love them to death sometimes, perhaps because they think they own them. The state system needs to get non-students on campus for events, so they demand funding from the government for their local university.

[iupgroundhog]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

If state wide park usage was down 20%, they probably wouldn't bring in an outside consultant to do a study...they would probably just close the most under performing parks.

Ridiculous. Here's a link to a recent study of the PA State Park system, administered by an outside consultant. Just one of many.

http://www.media.pa.gov/Pages/DCNR_d...spx?newsid=406

[iupgroundhog]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

It's never a pleasant situation when a towns "industry" outlives its legitimate usefulness/purpose...but even less "pleasant" is for the state to prop the industry up at tax payers expense.

A state university isn't a business. Not in the pure sense that you seem to imply. Sure, there is a product (education) and customers (students). It's affected by economic laws like supply and demand. If there is little or no benefit derived from the university then by all means shut it down. That's not the case. The economic and cultural ripple effects of having a university in town are tremendous. The university is an economic engine for local growth. The system contributes not only to 14 local economies but to the state economy as well. Shutting them down en masse will lead to blight across the state in all the counties where the schools are now located. It will lead to increased poverty, increased unemployment and other problems that will COST the state money.

In the total state budget scheme the PASSHE isn't very significant. How many graduates go on for their entire working life contributing to Pennsylvania's economy? The answer is a huge number. Corporations favor relocation to communities with an institution of higher education. The economic impact of these schools is not what is on the annual state budget in terms of revenues and expenditures. Not at all.

[boatcapt]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

A state university isn't a business. Not in the pure sense that you seem to imply. Sure, there is a product (education) and customers (students). It's affected by economic laws like supply and demand. If there is little or no benefit derived from the university then by all means shut it down. That's not the case. The economic and cultural ripple effects of having a university in town are tremendous. The university is an economic engine for local growth. The system contributes not only to 14 local economies but to the state economy as well. Shutting them down en masse will lead to blight across the state in all the counties where the schools are now located. It will lead to increased poverty, increased unemployment and other problems that will COST the state money.

In the total state budget scheme the PASSHE isn't very significant. How many graduates go on for their entire working life contributing to Pennsylvania's economy? The answer is a huge number. Corporations favor relocation to communities with an institution of higher education. The economic impact of these schools is not what is on the annual state budget in terms of revenues and expenditures. Not at all.

Real problem is that the state schools are being run like there is no need to balance the books or pleasing their "stock holders" (the legislature) OR their "potential customers" (potential students). They have gotten away with this mind set for a number of years as their potential customers took their $'s elsewhere and their "stock holders" watched as they bled more and more red ink. Seems like their only consistent answer to this long running decline is "give us more money and then there won't be a problem." The "stock holders" are now saying "Enough is enough. If you are unable or unwilling to make any changes to balance your books, we will."

[ironmaniup]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

A state university isn't a business. Not in the pure sense that you seem to imply. Sure, there is a product (education) and customers (students). It's affected by economic laws like supply and demand. If there is little or no benefit derived from the university then by all means shut it down. That's not the case. The economic and cultural ripple effects of having a university in town are tremendous. The university is an economic engine for local growth. The system contributes not only to 14 local economies but to the state economy as well. Shutting them down en masse will lead to blight across the state in all the counties where the schools are now located. It will lead to increased poverty, increased unemployment and other problems that will COST the state money.

In the total state budget scheme the PASSHE isn't very significant. How many graduates go on for their entire working life contributing to Pennsylvania's economy? The answer is a huge number. Corporations favor relocation to communities with an institution of higher education. The economic impact of these schools is not what is on the annual state budget in terms of revenues and expenditures. Not at all.

So the more I look into this, the more I think the Rand report is a political hit job. Of course there are issues with the state system, particularly dealing with the demographic shifts, and quickly resizing to adapt - about 50% of which is in harrisburg. But, keep in mind that only Mansfield and Cheyney are in real trouble, with about 2000+ students and 750 students each - the next smallest is Lock Haven with 4500 - about the same size as the largest branch campus in PSU Erie. ALL of the Pitt and PSU branches are smaller than this. The campuses are all very viable, produce quality graduates ( many of whom go on to grad school at the Big schools and teach their freshman) - The tuition revenue is roughly 800 Million. PASSHE BOGs and the Chancellors office doesn't want to admit their various plans over the years have been abject failures, and wastes of money, as students rejected their centralization plans and their on-line initiatives, while their incentive funding plans just ended up with universities gaming the system, and produced nothing, other than unfair funding distributions.

A big part of this is previous years strike, where the Chancellors office came out on the losing end - suddenly there is a crisis. Well yes, if you are faculty at several of the schools it is a crisis, but claiming a 6000 student university is on the verge of shutting down is a bit much. My personal opinion is that ending Harrisburg's over reach, and meddling, would go along way to making the schools more solvent. Most of the schools have some tough decisions to make regarding staffing, offerings, etc.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

So the more I look into this, the more I think the Rand report is a political hit job. Of course there are issues with the state system, particularly dealing with the demographic shifts, and quickly resizing to adapt - about 50% of which is in harrisburg. But, keep in mind that only Mansfield and Cheyney are in real trouble, with about 2000+ students and 750 students each - the next smallest is Lock Haven with 4500 - about the same size as the largest branch campus in PSU Erie. ALL of the Pitt and PSU branches are smaller than this. The campuses are all very viable, produce quality graduates ( many of whom go on to grad school at the Big schools and teach their freshman) - The tuition revenue is roughly 800 Million. PASSHE BOGs and the Chancellors office doesn't want to admit their various plans over the years have been abject failures, and wastes of money, as students rejected their centralization plans and their on-line initiatives, while their incentive funding plans just ended up with universities gaming the system, and produced nothing, other than unfair funding distributions.

A big part of this is previous years strike, where the Chancellors office came out on the losing end - suddenly there is a crisis. Well yes, if you are faculty at several of the schools it is a crisis, but claiming a 6000 student university is on the verge of shutting down is a bit much. My personal opinion is that ending Harrisburg's over reach, and meddling, would go along way to making the schools more solvent. Most of the schools have some tough decisions to make regarding staffing, offerings, etc.

We'll see for how much longer. Pitt and PSU obviously know the state schools are in trouble. They will do everything possible to keep taking students away -- and grabbing that coin.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

Real problem is that the state schools are being run like there is no need to balance the books or pleasing their "stock holders" (the legislature) OR their "potential customers" (potential students). They have gotten away with this mind set for a number of years as their potential customers took their $'s elsewhere and their "stock holders" watched as they bled more and more red ink. Seems like their only consistent answer to this long running decline is "give us more money and then there won't be a problem." The "stock holders" are now saying "Enough is enough. If you are unable or unwilling to make any changes to balance your books, we will."

Any solvent business has reserves that cover years when revenue doesn't meet expenses. 13 of 14 PASSHE universities are okay in this consideration. Only Cheyney has depleted all reserves and now requires state forgiveness. But the ultimatum that they finish the year in the black is forcing their hand to prove if Cheyney can survive. Edinboro has finished 4 of the last 5 years in the red due to enrollment losses but they had strong financial reserves to cover each of those budget overruns.

Honestly, the thing that would help immediately is the most difficult. Eliminate the system-wide labor contracts that dictate financial terms for all 14 universities regardless of their financial situation. As a non-unionized manager I only get a raise on two conditions: enrollment hits a benchmark that allows for that piece of the next fiscal year's budget and I meet or exceed expectations in my annual performance review. I know that if our enrollment dips I may not get a raise regardless of my performance because like PASSHE universities (but to a greater degree) our budget is tuition-driven. PASSHE committed to giving the majority of its employees annual raises regardless of the individual schools' financial capability. Public education isn't a business but that kind of decision doesn't make sense from the business operations side of public or private education. It reminds me of the balloon mortgage crisis that blew up several years ago.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

How long do those reserves last?


PASSHE committed to giving the majority of its employees annual raises regardless of the individual schools' financial capability

Brilliant. So the expenses keep going up and the revenue keeps going down. Good recipe for disaster.

[ironmaniup]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

We'll see for how much longer. Pitt and PSU obviously know the state schools are in trouble. They will do everything possible to keep taking students away -- and grabbing that coin.

Sure, for instance Pitt lowered the the required GPA to transfer to the Oakland Campus to 2.5 a few years back. Titusville and Bradford are in rough shape but they haven't given them up yet. PSU has 4 campuses small as cheyney. In a fair fight, I think the PASSHE schools mostly win - i.e. keep significant market share, maybe even improve. Article after Article about the huge crisis doesn't help much. and with the legislature and BOG in scorched earth mode, its hard to improve. PASSHE needs to win with the legislature as well - and that has to mean increased funding and greater autonomy.

[Champ]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

Interesting that Pennsylvania has problems with state schools, here in NY its the opposite.. The D3 state schools (Cortland, Oneonta, Ithica, New Paltz, Etc) have huge enrollments, getting the majority of kids from Long Island. While the smaller D2 private schools struggle to stay open EX. Dowling closing two years ago.

[iupgroundhog]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

Real problem is that the state schools are being run like there is no need to balance the books or pleasing their "stock holders" (the legislature) OR their "potential customers" (potential students). They have gotten away with this mind set for a number of years as their potential customers took their $'s elsewhere and their "stock holders" watched as they bled more and more red ink. Seems like their only consistent answer to this long running decline is "give us more money and then there won't be a problem." The "stock holders" are now saying "Enough is enough. If you are unable or unwilling to make any changes to balance your books, we will."

The legislature makes the decisions that set the funding. I don't like the "stockholders" analogy because stockholders are concerned with the welfare and viability of the organization. That can't be said for the Pennsylvania Legislature. Most don't hold a vested interest in the system.

I understand there are inefficiencies and we have the union contracts, etc. but I don't see how you can attack the system for "bleeding red ink" when the subsidy is a third of what it used to be. The bottom line is that PA has not supported the PASSHE.

[iupgroundhog]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

Interesting that Pennsylvania has problems with state schools, here in NY its the opposite.. The D3 state schools (Cortland, Oneonta, Ithica, New Paltz, Etc) have huge enrollments, getting the majority of kids from Long Island. While the smaller D2 private schools struggle to stay open EX. Dowling closing two years ago.

NY has been nicer to the public universities over the years. One difference is there is no Penn State equivalent in New York.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: All 14 SSHE schools will close in 4 years?

Sure, for instance Pitt lowered the the required GPA to transfer to the Oakland Campus to 2.5 a few years back. Titusville and Bradford are in rough shape but they haven't given them up yet. PSU has 4 campuses small as cheyney. In a fair fight, I think the PASSHE schools mostly win - i.e. keep significant market share, maybe even improve. Article after Article about the huge crisis doesn't help much. and with the legislature and BOG in scorched earth mode, its hard to improve. PASSHE needs to win with the legislature as well - and that has to mean increased funding and greater autonomy.

Pitt has invested huge amounts of money in Pitt Bradford. New dorms. Lots of landscaping. Enrollment is up there. Where my wife is from students are now more likely to attend there than the closest PASSHE schools: Clarion, Edinboro, Lock Haven.