OT: WPIAL

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: OT: WPIAL

You can trace it, to an extent, to the peewee levels. That segment has been hit very hard.

That is where programs start to get built and kids learn how challenging football really is on the field. They then progress up through the levels.

You see tons of kids wait until their junior year to play. Minus the exceptional, that's too late.

The best programs always have great peewee programs. That's absolutely not a coincidence.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: WPIAL

There are three P5 commits as of today: Notre Dame, Penn State and Syracuse each have one. There are four other FBS commits so far: Ball State, Miami OH, Navy, and Toledo. There are roughly a dozen more holding P5 offers. This is all from Western PA Football.

[ironmaniup]

Re: OT: WPIAL

You can trace it, to an extent, to the peewee levels. That segment has been hit very hard.

That is where programs start to get built and kids learn how challenging football really is on the field. They then progress up through the levels.

You see tons of kids wait until their junior year to play. Minus the exceptional, that's too late.

The best programs always have great peewee programs. That's absolutely not a coincidence.

I really disagree here. They shouldn't play full contact, until 9th grade. Ability levels and size differentials are too great before this, and coaches and training are too bad. Let them play flag to develop ball skills, etc. Back when WPIAL was dominant, there wan't much PeeWee, though lots of sandlot ball. Early starts are for players that aren't great athletes, but want to be the highschool hero, or for the kid who's parents are unrealistic about the kid's ability. Anyone with real college level athletic ability can start organized sports in 9th grade and make it too college.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: WPIAL

I really disagree here. They shouldn't play full contact, until 9th grade. Ability levels and size differentials are too great before this, and coaches and training are too bad. Let them play flag to develop ball skills, etc. Back when WPIAL was dominant, there wan't much PeeWee, though lots of sandlot ball. Early starts are for players that aren't great athletes, but want to be the highschool hero, or for the kid who's parents are unrealistic about the kid's ability. Anyone with real college level athletic ability can start organized sports in 9th grade and make it too college.

I think the big downturn is that its so expensive to play plus kids are specializing much earlier. My cousin's son is in 8th grade and since 6th grade they've spent at least one weekend a month summer through fall travelling all over for travel baseball. Not LLWS or Pony League tournament ball. For-profit travel teams. These kids are 14. That directly impacts his ability to play football. I was curious and looked up his team and saw that its $600 a kid if you make the team plus there's a fee to even try out. Plus just like attendance at games there are so many more options now than before. Hockey and soccer are huge. I have more friends with kids playing hockey than playing soccer and baseball/softball combined. Growing up most kids played basketball in the winter and baseball in the spring. A much smaller minority did soccer or a youth swim team. I don't recall anyone playing youth hockey. Now in our neighborhood out of probably a dozen boys ages 2-16 all play hockey, soccer, or swim. Not one plays football and the only person playing baseball is the girl next door actually playing softball. I grew up playing baseball. I don't even recall seeing anything for youth football in North Allegheny until maybe middle school but by then I was all about baseball and cross country. For the high school team, there were

For the WPIAL dominance, I think it had to do with supply more than demand. Decades ago before the consolidations there were many more high schools so there were many more opportunities to play. Kids develop by playing so there was much more playing time available. Think about it: Woodland Hills combined FIVE high schools. Shaler was created by merging FOUR high schools. Think of all the Pittsburgh City high schools that not only no longer have teams but don't exist anymore. More recently Central Valley was created by merging Center and Monaca. At worst you need 11 kids to field a football team and when you multiply the size of the competition it reduces the number of opportunities to play. If you read the list of former WPIAL champions there are so many schools that don't exist anymore.

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: OT: WPIAL

I believe part of the problem is the organized pee wee leagues. it ends up giving 12 year olds concussions. There was this series called friday night tykes that showed how poorly kids were taught, and how even at that level the better players were taken advantage of to make the coaches look good. At the HS level coaches push kids playing for fun to work at the level for potential P5 recruits. why join a team that is going to work you like a dog, beat you up during practive, but play very little. In my opinion HS and lower level sports have been ruined by over organization. I personally know of one example where a kid's knees were ruined, and they became addicted to opiods because they were pushed way to hard when they were 11,12,13 . . . the other thing this does is force the athletes that are not stars to focus on one sport.

Yes! And another problem is that coaches want to make the game all encompassing for the kids. I know when I played several years in what can only be classified as a truly horrible football program that yeah, I wanted to play football but I also wanted to do other stuff that a young teen boy would do---riding dirt bikes, hanging with friends, going hunting, etc. It made it very hard to be a normal teen to be honest.

Regarding the coaches that I had, well most of them left a lot to be desired as well. One coach was a scrawny little Italian guy who thought he was tough to mistreat 13-14 year old boys. I truly never learned a thing from him about the game of football, just how not to act if you wanted to be a decent human being. Another coach was an okay enough guy who did have some knowledge on the game but his ONLY objective was to fix everything for his son to take over as the QB. My neighbor was a year older and was the starting QB and likely a much better QB. Well, he got axed out by the whole politics thing that goes on at many schools. The varsity coach was actually a pretty decent man but just didn't seem to be very practical about anything regarding the game of football or running a football program. The one leading varsity assistant was a good dude who knew a great deal about the game but it wasn't his rodeo. He would be telling us stuff and then would always catch himself that he wasn't in charge. I guess it didn't help that a year before he was a varsity head coach at a rival school who rumor had it lost his job because of boozing. He had to walk a fine line. But he was someone who could have made a big difference IMO.

Bottom line here----you had better have someone in charge of these football programs who knows what they are doing, who has the best interest of the kids in mind first and foremost, and who is willing to make it fun in some form or fashion that the kids want to be there. A perfect local example would be Billy Packer of Penns Manor. He took over a sunk to the bottom of the ocean football program in 2005 that had NEVER even once came close to the district playoffs and if he makes it this year that will be something like 12 consecutive years his teams have made the postseason. That's incredible. His secret---he made it fun and kids wanted to be there. They like him. They actually want to go out for the football team. He gives just about everyone some role to play within the team and doesn't have kids mentally checking out on him, just wishing they had never even bothered coming out for the sport. He also benefited from a quality pee-wee program that did a good job of teaching the kids the fundamentals of the game. Throw in some major facilities upgrades like a fitness center for lifting and a staff that seems to know what they are doing with their respective position groups and you have a winner. It probably didn't hurt to have his brother as the president of the school board either.
But it all was a recipe to turn a moribund program way around.

A coach should use his practice time to provide skill development and teach situational football. Not run his players into the ground with a Junction Boys mindset. It accomplishes little. I always thought very highly of the manner in which Curt Cignetti ran his scrimmages. It was football at its finest. So many positive things happening in the devolpment of football players.

Regarding the Pee Wee programs----I think they are certainly a major asset if done correctly. A few years ago IUP had an athlete survey sheet of questions that they asked each player on the football web page. When asked at what age they started to play football----most responded around five years of age. That's sort of what it takes to develop players of the high caliber that colleges need. Indeed, IUPBigIndians----the days of a guy going out for football for the first time as a junior or senior are all but over in most instances.

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[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: OT: WPIAL

Wasn't Woodland Hills considered to be one of the leading high schools for placing players in the NFL or something like that about a decade ago?

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[iupgroundhog]

Re: OT: WPIAL

MWPIALGA!

[Chuck Norris]

Re: OT: WPIAL

Very true. Even locally it is a bit shocking how few players some of these schools draw now. Football seems to have a completely different connotation than what it did just a few years ago in our society. Before it seemed to be Friday Night Lights and gridiron glory. Now it's CTE and lasting health disabilities. I was just thinking the other day how most of the guys that I played high school ball with do not have sons who play the game. I think this is more than a coincidence. I know for myself I have three nephews who I will never ever attempt to steer towards the game. If they wish to play of their own accord then I will certainly do everything that I can to help them out and support them. But it seems like a ton of former players are not pushing or even wishing for their own sons to play the game they once did.

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[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: WPIAL

Wasn't Woodland Hills considered to be one of the leading high schools for placing players in the NFL or something like that about a decade ago?

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They have 5 active players (most of any PA school). 13 overall. Highlights are Gronk and Jason Taylor. But that area has always produced NFL players. If you consider all the former high schools that existed before the forced merger, the number increases to 33.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: WPIAL

Same. My son is also 2 but wrestling may be one of his only options. At the last doctor's visit he was hovering around the 20th percentile for height which is about 5'6"!

[EyeoftheHawk]

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: WPIAL

[EastStroud13]

Re: OT: WPIAL

Volleyball is the now the second-highest sport in girls' participation. Would not have guessed.

[SRU 88]

Re: OT: WPIAL

the conference only has one player that I am aware of that is getting pretty good FBS consideration, and there are maybe only a handful who could play DII. We have one player at our school that has received DII interest (Lock Haven and Edinboro) but not an offer. While the Heritage Conference has never been fertile ground for college players, the overall pool of talent seems down.


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Who is that? A huge leap from Class A/ Class AA to Division 1 football. Tutino had an unofficial visit to Boston College; last year but has no offers from D1.

[Horror Child]

Re: OT: WPIAL

In college, women's soccer has a higher rate of concussions than men's football or soccer: 6.3 per 10,000 times women participate in soccer practice or a game versus 4.9 for men's soccer and 6.1 for men's football. Men's wrestling and hockey have even higher rates at 12.4 and 8.4 respectively.

Concussions occur in soccer and other sports, too -- but yeah, let's go after all-American football