PASSHE Institutions Merging

[ironmaniup]

I believe the plan is to as often as possible eliminate the need to hire adjuncts by offering online instruction through the triad. Not sure how that's good for cost savings since its much cheaper to hire an adjunct than to pay a professor to increase their teaching load. As for the whole department as adjuncts, I think that could prove difficult to assemble the number of adjuncts necessary unless they all teach online. We may see that with departments that largely exist to fulfill general education courses and can't support a major like music or philosophy. But that will get them dinged in accreditation. RMU tried this with liberal arts classes since they don't do liberal arts and it caused a problem with Middle States.

Passhe is generally far from the point where mid states would complain about adjuncts. The two places adjuncts would help would be in classes that have low limited enrollment. Science labs, intro english composition, some intro or remedial courses in math, things that are better F2F. Certainly intro to music type courses can be offered on-line. But say something like an advanced business law course could be taught by an adjunct, with the special background needed, every once in a while. - and there are many cost savings things to look at, and different possible options. My point is that having a single president opens the door for whatever cost savings plans they might want to implement.

[Fightingscot82]

But the key to the merge is having one president for all three schools. The contracts give alot of authority to the university president, including retrenchment decisions, promotion, tenure, approving department chairs, course scheduling. Now much of this is typically done by a representative, but by contract, the triad president will have authority over which courses are offered at all three triads. At that point, the possibility for cost savings will be huge. This is much harder to do at individual universities. Passhe hates low enrolled classes, and sees eliminating these as the key to financial success. The other problem is the huge disparity in pay for older vs newer faculty. This is because of the contract, and is higher than most other universities. The merger will allow a school with locked in higher costs to manage this better. Finally there is the assignment of adjunct faculty, by contract there can be only a certain percentage. In the merged case, you can manipulate adjuncts much more efficiently, and maybe have whole departments at some schools be adjuncts.

I believe the plan is to as often as possible eliminate the need to hire adjuncts by offering online instruction through the triad. Not sure how that's good for cost savings since its much cheaper to hire an adjunct than to pay a professor to increase their teaching load. As for the whole department as adjuncts, I think that could prove difficult to assemble the number of adjuncts necessary unless they all teach online. We may see that with departments that largely exist to fulfill general education courses and can't support a major like music or philosophy. But that will get them dinged in accreditation. RMU tried this with liberal arts classes since they don't do liberal arts and it caused a problem with Middle States.

[ironmaniup]

I don't know. I think they could have said whatever gory details up front and it would have been approved by the board. I really think they think they can just start growing enrollment. The assumptions had like 1-2% growth built in.

Reality is, they are going to lose a large percent of students this year. And even with the rosy assumptions of growth happen, the West still isn't profitable for a long time.

It's hard to bring a failing business back by cutting every year. At some point you have to grow.

But the key to the merge is having one president for all three schools. The contracts give alot of authority to the university president, including retrenchment decisions, promotion, tenure, approving department chairs, course scheduling. Now much of this is typically done by a representative, but by contract, the triad president will have authority over which courses are offered at all three triads. At that point, the possibility for cost savings will be huge. This is much harder to do at individual universities. Passhe hates low enrolled classes, and sees eliminating these as the key to financial success. The other problem is the huge disparity in pay for older vs newer faculty. This is because of the contract, and is higher than most other universities. The merger will allow a school with locked in higher costs to manage this better. Finally there is the assignment of adjunct faculty, by contract there can be only a certain percentage. In the merged case, you can manipulate adjuncts much more efficiently, and maybe have whole departments at some schools be adjuncts.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I wonder who is dealing with, or who will be dealing with, the NCAA. Is there a NCAA liaison from the PSAC? Will it be Greenstein himself? The respective triad Presidents and/or AD's? Will it be from the PASSHE level or the triad level? Is that too many hypotheticals?

The hypothetical is why is nobody in authority talking about this topic? If either 'triad' goes from three to one (athletic departments) ... massive (death sentence, perhaps) blow.

What percent of the enrollment of said triads are athletes?


Wait until next offseason ... IUP and SRU will pick them clean (transfers). I can see it comimg.

[iupgroundhog]

I wonder who is dealing with, or who will be dealing with, the NCAA. Is there a NCAA liaison from the PSAC? Will it be Greenstein himself? The respective triad Presidents and/or AD's? Will it be from the PASSHE level or the triad level? Is that too many hypotheticals?

[Fightingscot82]

That's good to hear. The schools closing right now are all very small (<1,500 students) with small endowments, no reserves, and high discount rates.

[boatcapt]

I don't know. I think they could have said whatever gory details up front and it would have been approved by the board. I really think they think they can just start growing enrollment. The assumptions had like 1-2% growth built in.

Reality is, they are going to lose a large percent of students this year. And even with the rosy assumptions of growth happen, the West still isn't profitable for a long time.

It's hard to bring a failing business back by cutting every year. At some point you have to grow.

I don't know what the current situation is at Wheeling University, but to their credit, they made the gory cuts up front. They cut entire programs to include faculty...cut management and support staff and entire sports teams up front and lost a ton of students. Dealing with the pain up front has allowed them to put it behind them and move forward as a much smaller, but presumably more sustainable university with a firmer foundation. They went down to roughly 500 students but current enrollment seems to be in the 750-800 range...still a far cry from the 1600 they had at their zenith in 2013 but moving in the right direction.

[complaint_hopeful]

The other possibility is that they expect to get the consolidation in place, and then go after the big cut. Its alot easier to close down an academic department at one or two of the triad after the merge has settled in, than it would be before the merge, with the old administration in charge. I'd guess this is the first step, then once there is a new bargaining unit at the merged university, make the stiffer cuts. In the east, having the Bloom president in charge means its likely he will cut the others to protect blooms programs. In the west, I'll bet they hire a hatchet man in a year or so to make the hard cuts.

I don't know. I think they could have said whatever gory details up front and it would have been approved by the board. I really think they think they can just start growing enrollment. The assumptions had like 1-2% growth built in.

Reality is, they are going to lose a large percent of students this year. And even with the rosy assumptions of growth happen, the West still isn't profitable for a long time.

It's hard to bring a failing business back by cutting every year. At some point you have to grow.

[complaint_hopeful]

At first it seemed like a way for the Chancellor to have less people reporting directly to him. Its clear that's not the intent but the savings aren't strong enough to justify the potentially damaging changes.

The solution is right in front of them. They keep saying that their price advantage has eroded - that's what is needed. Students won't choose any PASSHE campus - integrted or not - if the cost savings aren't there. They'll reluctantly pay a bit more for a Penn State Outlet Store or a high discount private.

Yes - We keep saying this over and over. And in the plans, early on when it said something like Lower the cost of education by 25%...I was like WOW! That will lead to more enrollment. Then, they clarified that to mean that it lowers THEIR costs...not the student costs. I was like Uh oh. How will this work?

I think one reason they won't do it for the Triad is they're scared of stealing students from other PASSHE schools. But really, the cost needs lowered across PASSHE.

It's basically a failing model...and they're trying to slap a coat of paint on it. They are refusing to lay people off for the most part...and it's sorely needed.

[ironmaniup]

It's even worse than that as this is costing tens of millions of dollars to merge the schools. I have an easy time seeing the costs. I have to strain to find the savings.

And the things that can produce savings, like combining academic programs...they delayed implementing fully over 3 years. And the consolidating admin functions...I'm not seeing it too much other than at the President level.

I think they're banking on gaining enrollment. Illogical, but I think that's the hope.

The other possibility is that they expect to get the consolidation in place, and then go after the big cut. Its alot easier to close down an academic department at one or two of the triad after the merge has settled in, than it would be before the merge, with the old administration in charge. I'd guess this is the first step, then once there is a new bargaining unit at the merged university, make the stiffer cuts. In the east, having the Bloom president in charge means its likely he will cut the others to protect blooms programs. In the west, I'll bet they hire a hatchet man in a year or so to make the hard cuts.

[Fightingscot82]

It's even worse than that as this is costing tens of millions of dollars to merge the schools. I have an easy time seeing the costs. I have to strain to find the savings.

And the things that can produce savings, like combining academic programs...they delayed implementing fully over 3 years. And the consolidating admin functions...I'm not seeing it too much other than at the President level.

I think they're banking on gaining enrollment. Illogical, but I think that's the hope.

At first it seemed like a way for the Chancellor to have less people reporting directly to him. Its clear that's not the intent but the savings aren't strong enough to justify the potentially damaging changes.

The solution is right in front of them. They keep saying that their price advantage has eroded - that's what is needed. Students won't choose any PASSHE campus - integrted or not - if the cost savings aren't there. They'll reluctantly pay a bit more for a Penn State Outlet Store or a high discount private.

[complaint_hopeful]

I've managed some business units in downward financial spirals. To stop the spiral, you have to take a BIG swing and get ahead of the problem. Worst thing you can do is make small incramental changes. Short of laying off some faculty and staff, and consolidating some administrative functions, were is the big swing?

It's even worse than that as this is costing tens of millions of dollars to merge the schools. I have an easy time seeing the costs. I have to strain to find the savings.

And the things that can produce savings, like combining academic programs...they delayed implementing fully over 3 years. And the consolidating admin functions...I'm not seeing it too much other than at the President level.

I think they're banking on gaining enrollment. Illogical, but I think that's the hope.

[complaint_hopeful]

Exactly. There are so many assumptions in these plans that its almost naive. I have reason to believe that Middle States & the NCAA will approve. But the plan fails to recognize that the financial crisis and the enrollment decline are a circular relationship. Less revenue because of less students. The plan doesn't appear to include strategies to reverse the enrollment decline yet the plan needs that to make it work.

I'm okay with the administrative consolidation. I've made peace with Edinboro University no longer being a thing. They can't afford to close the campus, cut sports, and Fighting Scots will always be their thing. But I'm a higher ed guy and the numbers don't line up even if this whole integration was done in secrecy (no possible adverse impact from press).

My guess is that this extra $50 million a year for 4 years...that they'll use some of it to pay yearly Res Hall debt to keep these Triads going...especially in the West because it's got to be close to bankrupt. Then, hopefully in 4 years things will look better.

But yes...the plans are largely hypotheticals. In fact, in the same call with the Legislature, Greenstein said something to the effect of he's not concerned about technical aspects...they'll work out. Well, to IMPLEMENT something...you need to know the how. Maybe on a small project you can wing it. But on something this large, no way.


@APSCUFAug 3
What part is weakest part of consolidation plan,
@RepBradford
asks. Not worried about technical aspects, chancellors says. Funding aspects out of his control, chancellor says. Must all act and behave in different ways, he says.

As far as the management consolidation...we'll see. It seems like people have to retire because the plan, atleast initially is to keep the Cabinets the same. Maybe that changes next summer. Maybe not.

[boatcapt]

Exactly. There are so many assumptions in these plans that its almost naive. I have reason to believe that Middle States & the NCAA will approve. But the plan fails to recognize that the financial crisis and the enrollment decline are a circular relationship. Less revenue because of less students. The plan doesn't appear to include strategies to reverse the enrollment decline yet the plan needs that to make it work.

I'm okay with the administrative consolidation. I've made peace with Edinboro University no longer being a thing. They can't afford to close the campus, cut sports, and Fighting Scots will always be their thing. But I'm a higher ed guy and the numbers don't line up even if this whole integration was done in secrecy (no possible adverse impact from press).

I've managed some business units in downward financial spirals. To stop the spiral, you have to take a BIG swing and get ahead of the problem. Worst thing you can do is make small incramental changes. Short of laying off some faculty and staff, and consolidating some administrative functions, were is the big swing?

[Fightingscot82]

Wait a minute, isn't the plan built on quite a few hypotheticals??

Exactly. There are so many assumptions in these plans that its almost naive. I have reason to believe that Middle States & the NCAA will approve. But the plan fails to recognize that the financial crisis and the enrollment decline are a circular relationship. Less revenue because of less students. The plan doesn't appear to include strategies to reverse the enrollment decline yet the plan needs that to make it work.

I'm okay with the administrative consolidation. I've made peace with Edinboro University no longer being a thing. They can't afford to close the campus, cut sports, and Fighting Scots will always be their thing. But I'm a higher ed guy and the numbers don't line up even if this whole integration was done in secrecy (no possible adverse impact from press).