PASSHE Institutions Merging

[ironmaniup]

Ok, I've been wrong before. However, I'm not totally sold. If there is no added value why do top students continue to enroll. My impression is that it's a hyper-intensive experience and that alone will, in most cases, help students in their post-college endeavors whether it's further education or job-related.

Success depends on what the student does with the opportunity. The perks and extra attention gives an engaged student an advantage with more opportunity and lifestyle. Generally the HC students are mostly all the engaged type that want to learn for its own sake, and will probably do pretty good regardless of the circumstance. Then again, I've seen students gain just as much on their own, with the same positive attitude. I think in the end the HC helps the engaged students find each other quicker, and provides a community for them - that is huge, just to avoid a dorm full of Blutoskys and the 300 student Art 101 class. But if you view college as just a set of requirements to complete, its not necessary.

[Fightingscot82]

I guess it's the same as university status in a way. At one time university status meant something. Now, it's just an updated word for a college. I guess with the proliferation of HC's it gets watered down. Everybody wants to have one.

And IUP deserves commendation because theirs was an early leader not just in the region but for regional publics. The Cook donation that moved it forward was huge at the time.

[complaint_hopeful]

Just skimmed through some of them. I would expect most comments to be in opposition but what is striking is the cogence of the vast majority of them. So many of them spell out the opposition in great detail. I don't think greenstein and the BOG (or the legislature) have answers for most of it.

Agreed. These aren't just people who fear change. They're people who see a ship headed towards an iceburg.

[iupgroundhog]

I'm sure I could dig something up - but with most higher ed research the data is skewed by the type of school. Very little research is done on public regionals like IUP. Most studies are done at big public flagships. Anecdotally, I didn't see it. Students at multiple schools went through the loops and jumped the hurdles necessary to keep the honors scholarship and graduate with honors.

I guess it's the same as university status in a way. At one time university status meant something. Now, it's just an updated word for a college. I guess with the proliferation of HC's it gets watered down. Everybody wants to have one.

[iupgroundhog]

PASSHE did a dump of "public comments" on integration: https://www.passhe.edu/PublicComment...ch01_FINAL.pdf

Just skimmed through some of them. I would expect most comments to be in opposition but what is striking is the cogence of the vast majority of them. So many of them spell out the opposition in great detail. I don't think greenstein and the BOG (or the legislature) have answers for most of it.

[iupgroundhog]

I'm sure I could dig something up - but with most higher ed research the data is skewed by the type of school. Very little research is done on public regionals like IUP. Most studies are done at big public flagships. Anecdotally, I didn't see it. Students at multiple schools went through the loops and jumped the hurdles necessary to keep the honors scholarship and graduate with honors.

I'm talking about studies comparing career/financial performance of HC students to the general student population WITHIN THE SAME SCHOOL. To determine value-added, that is the appropriate comparison and I'm virtually certain they perform better so there is value-added.

[Fightingscot82]

Are there studies that measure the career and financial success of HC students, say, 10 years removed from their undergrad graduation? I am sure there are. Do the HC students perform at a higher level, the same, or lower level than the general student population? The results of those studies will provide the answer to whether there is value-added.in career terms.

I'm sure I could dig something up - but with most higher ed research the data is skewed by the type of school. Very little research is done on public regionals like IUP. Most studies are done at big public flagships. Anecdotally, I didn't see it. Students at multiple schools went through the loops and jumped the hurdles necessary to keep the honors scholarship and graduate with honors.

[Fightingscot82]

Ok, I've been wrong before. However, I'm not totally sold. If there is no added value why do top students continue to enroll. My impression is that it's a hyper-intensive experience and that alone will, in most cases, help students in their post-college endeavors whether it's further education or job-related.

In my experience, they attract great students where the extra honors money/perks make an IUP degree so much less expensive than the other schools it sways their decision.

[iupgroundhog]

Exactly. If they don't see the point it's ignored. TBH, I have yet to see an honors college or honors program provide something with a true value added across the board from a career perspective.

Are there studies that measure the career and financial success of HC students, say, 10 years removed from their undergrad graduation? I am sure there are. Do the HC students perform at a higher level, the same, or lower level than the general student population? The results of those studies will provide the answer to whether there is value-added.in career terms.

[iupgroundhog]

With almost every school having an honors college these days, and no easy way to judge the differences between them, professional schools don't use participation in these programs as a factor in their decision. Many students are deciding that they'd rather take easier courses and protect their GPA than have the HC tag. Of course, most things you get from an HC are personal enrichment, and flexibility, not so much career help. Many (not all) Students these days would rather have only the courses needed to get into their specific professional school and don't value the flexibility to change their minds. Needless to say, that turns out to be a bad decision for many, but for the ones it works for, its really efficient.

Ok, I've been wrong before. However, I'm not totally sold. If there is no added value why do top students continue to enroll. My impression is that it's a hyper-intensive experience and that alone will, in most cases, help students in their post-college endeavors whether it's further education or job-related.

[Fightingscot82]

PASSHE did a dump of "public comments" on integration: https://www.passhe.edu/PublicComment...ch01_FINAL.pdf

[Fightingscot82]

With almost every school having an honors college these days, and no easy way to judge the differences between them, professional schools don't use participation in these programs as a factor in their decision. Many students are deciding that they'd rather take easier courses and protect their GPA than have the HC tag. Of course, most things you get from an HC are personal enrichment, and flexibility, not so much career help. Many (not all) Students these days would rather have only the courses needed to get into their specific professional school and don't value the flexibility to change their minds. Needless to say, that turns out to be a bad decision for many, but for the ones it works for, its really efficient.

Thanks - that's similar to what I was going for. Unless there's scholarship money tied to it its somewhat unpopular. Some extra programs, speakers, etc. and maybe some special privileges like early scheduling or grouped housing. Not saying anyone is doing a bad job. This generation just doesn't get some of the traditional things and sometimes only begrudgingly goes along because the tangible benefit outweighs their ambivalence. When I was running the a leadership program at RMU, I had at least one student each year tell me they only did the program so they could move in 4 days early.

[IUPNation]

Well, we aren't competing for the same students as Carnegie Mellon. Lol.

[ironmaniup]

Well, from what I've read about the Honors College at IUP (which was one of the first of its kind), there is much value added. The social atmosphere with the other Honors College students, opportunities for independent research, rigorous academic load, and exceptional entrance opportunities to professional schools. Maybe I don't understand the point you are making.

With almost every school having an honors college these days, and no easy way to judge the differences between them, professional schools don't use participation in these programs as a factor in their decision. Many students are deciding that they'd rather take easier courses and protect their GPA than have the HC tag. Of course, most things you get from an HC are personal enrichment, and flexibility, not so much career help. Many (not all) Students these days would rather have only the courses needed to get into their specific professional school and don't value the flexibility to change their minds. Needless to say, that turns out to be a bad decision for many, but for the ones it works for, its really efficient.

[iupgroundhog]

Exactly. If they don't see the point it's ignored. TBH, I have yet to see an honors college or honors program provide something with a true value added across the board from a career perspective.

Well, from what I've read about the Honors College at IUP (which was one of the first of its kind), there is much value added. The social atmosphere with the other Honors College students, opportunities for independent research, rigorous academic load, and exceptional entrance opportunities to professional schools. Maybe I don't understand the point you are making.