PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

I guess I will get around to reading the plan in detail soon and I might even comment if it seems worthy of a comment.

However, I feel what's important here is the big picture. This all has nothing to do with rejuvenating and/or growing the schools. It is, instead, a way to manage the demise of the schools over a yet-to-be-known timespan.

I think the NE plan is sound. It provides a solution for Mansfield. Mansfield can get even smaller and it won't matter that much. I would suspect some faculty and staff can even be farmed out to the other campuses as time goes on.

Lock Haven will survive but get smaller. That isn't terrible. LHU was historically a small college atmosphere. Historically, it was in the 2,000 to 2,500 range. It grew to 5, 300 and now is about 3,300. I think they can absorb the loss and still be "Lock Haven." The key thing is that it will become more specialized. A lot of their healthcare and health-related programs are really good, as are the coaching/education ones. A lot of athletes major in these areas so that bodes well for them.

I think Bloom survives at or near its present levels. I think it bodes well for Bloom that the other two schools will become more specialized. It will enable a Bloom student in a more generic major to pick up some of these specialized courses online from the other schools. That's a positive. It's value-added. I don't think it works in reverse i.e. students at LH and Mansfield in specialized majors pick up generic courses from Bloom. It could be beneficial but I don't think the value-added is as great for them.

As for the West, I don't see any real positives. It's as if they just swept the troubled schools up into a pile and now they are going to call it a school (problem is that it's just a pile and doesn't have any reason to exist.). The online focus will not mean much. You will have the same online benefit in the NE triad. If the online is cheap it might make some money but there is absolutely no school identity attached to that plan.

I think that in time there is an above-average chance that IUP will become part of the consolidation because the state has never done anything for IUP to help it reach the status of a national research university.

Something I learned in the plan is that the system formula for dividing up the lump sum appropriation gives IUP a higher per-student rate as a research university. The new Act 50 rules that allowed consolidation also say that IUP can't be "cross-funded" meaning that IUP's cut won't be supplemented from the other schools like they've been doing for Mansfield and Cheyney.

[iupgroundhog]

I guess I will get around to reading the plan in detail soon and I might even comment if it seems worthy of a comment.

However, I feel what's important here is the big picture. This all has nothing to do with rejuvenating and/or growing the schools. It is, instead, a way to manage the demise of the schools over a yet-to-be-known timespan.

I think the NE plan is sound. It provides a solution for Mansfield. Mansfield can get even smaller and it won't matter that much. I would suspect some faculty and staff can even be farmed out to the other campuses as time goes on.

Lock Haven will survive but get smaller. That isn't terrible. LHU was historically a small college atmosphere. Historically, it was in the 2,000 to 2,500 range. It grew to 5, 300 and now is about 3,300. I think they can absorb the loss and still be "Lock Haven." The key thing is that it will become more specialized. A lot of their healthcare and health-related programs are really good, as are the coaching/education ones. A lot of athletes major in these areas so that bodes well for them.

I think Bloom survives at or near its present levels. I think it bodes well for Bloom that the other two schools will become more specialized. It will enable a Bloom student in a more generic major to pick up some of these specialized courses online from the other schools. That's a positive. It's value-added. I don't think it works in reverse i.e. students at LH and Mansfield in specialized majors pick up generic courses from Bloom. It could be beneficial but I don't think the value-added is as great for them.

As for the West, I don't see any real positives. It's as if they just swept the troubled schools up into a pile and now they are going to call it a school (problem is that it's just a pile and doesn't have any reason to exist.). The online focus will not mean much. You will have the same online benefit in the NE triad. If the online is cheap it might make some money but there is absolutely no school identity attached to that plan.

I think that in time there is an above-average chance that IUP will become part of the consolidation because the state has never done anything for IUP to help it reach the status of a national research university.

[Fightingscot82]

This says there were 3 "no" votes. Nevertheless, the only thing that matters is that it passed.

https://www.lockhaven.com/news/urgen...moves-forward/

Thanks for sharing. Looks like the tweet I saw that claimed unanimous has since been deleted. I'm glad I was misinformed.

Regardless, public comment is now open for 60 days: www.passhe.edu/publiccomment

[iupgroundhog]

As I predicted, the vote passed unanimously. BOG chair from Fox Chapel and BOG member from Guys Mills both appeared pretty proud of themselves.

This says there were 3 "no" votes. Nevertheless, the only thing that matters is that it passed.

https://www.lockhaven.com/news/urgen...moves-forward/

[complaint_hopeful]

As I predicted, the vote passed unanimously. BOG chair from Fox Chapel and BOG member from Guys Mills both appeared pretty proud of themselves.

Yeah - I think this thing is a done deal. The 60 day period is likely a formality.

I expected more presentation of the Integrations than there was. It was really just questions about the report.

You can tell though that the Chancellor and the Board think they're building some great thing. And yeah...if these schools can gain 1-2% enrollment year over year instead of losing, things improve. But, will they? I doubt it.

[Fightingscot82]

As I predicted, the vote passed unanimously. BOG chair from Fox Chapel and BOG member from Guys Mills both appeared pretty proud of themselves.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I have reason to believe that the press coverage of the enrollment losses at Edinboro & Clarion have contributed to their decline. You never hear about the major enrollment losses at the outlet shops. Westminster and Thiel are teetering on collapse after similar enrollment losses. Maybe only Wheeling gets the negative coverage because it ties into the church?

Buried in the consolidation report is the fact that Duquesne has the highest average student debt of any 4-year school in Pennsylvania.

I find Duquesne to be kind of unique around the Yinzer lands. It still has a status -- and its alumni basically refer to it as an Ivy League school. I've found in my working career Duquesne people have a bigger ego than just about anybody else around.

[Fightingscot82]

Not to mention recruiting may get a little dirty between schools. I can already hear IUP and SRU telling prospective students to choose them over the unknown mess of these triads.

I have reason to believe that the press coverage of the enrollment losses at Edinboro & Clarion have contributed to their decline. You never hear about the major enrollment losses at the outlet shops. Westminster and Thiel are teetering on collapse after similar enrollment losses. Maybe only Wheeling gets the negative coverage because it ties into the church?

Buried in the consolidation report is the fact that Duquesne has the highest average student debt of any 4-year school in Pennsylvania.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I have a hard time believing that. And really, that's super modest either way. Its also a losing proposition, because most PASSHE students don't choose their school specifically for the program. Also, PASSHE takes way too long to create a new degree program. Third, PASSHE requires way too much general education and that's no longer attractive to post-recession students who question what they're paying for and see college as more vocational than foundational. Private schools will seize on this, quickly hammer out a program that has fewer gen eds/more major-specific courses, and at a cost close enough to PASSHE. This recently happened with several PASSHE schools going for fermentation & brewing programs. PASSHE moves like a cruise ship while privates are more nimble like one of those party catamarans in Cozumel.

Not to mention recruiting may get a little dirty between schools. I can already hear IUP and SRU telling prospective students to choose them over the unknown mess of these triads.

[Fightingscot82]

So 1% enrollment gain in NE. 2% in West. Projections.

They're claiming it's based on new program creation.

I have a hard time believing that. And really, that's super modest either way. Its also a losing proposition, because most PASSHE students don't choose their school specifically for the program. Also, PASSHE takes way too long to create a new degree program. Third, PASSHE requires way too much general education and that's no longer attractive to post-recession students who question what they're paying for and see college as more vocational than foundational. Private schools will seize on this, quickly hammer out a program that has fewer gen eds/more major-specific courses, and at a cost close enough to PASSHE. This recently happened with several PASSHE schools going for fermentation & brewing programs. PASSHE moves like a cruise ship while privates are more nimble like one of those party catamarans in Cozumel.

[complaint_hopeful]

So 1% enrollment gain in NE. 2% in West. Projections.

They're claiming it's based on new program creation.

[Fightingscot82]

Interesting, some departments of staff at these schools are managers and the same department at other schools has a mixture of managers and staff. It's going to be interesting how that plays out.

General rule of thumb is that on the administration side Director title and above (Deans, VPs, etc) are "managers". Lower level administrative professionals with titles like assistant/associate director, coordinator, and student services folks like financial aid, admissions, student life are all in a PASSHE-specific union called SCUPA.

Classifications are really strange in PASSHE. Counseling/psych therapists and most full-time academic advisors are included with faculty. Department chairs are still faculty but with a reduced teaching load in exchange for the administrative work. The only non-union faculty are the adjunct/freelance part-timers or temporary full-time. Job is dictated by the union agreement but they can't join.

Police officers have their own union. Clerical/support staff have their own union. Hourly custodial & maintenance staff have a union too. When I worked at a public university in Ohio, there were no unions on campus. When I worked at a private university, professors and police were the only unions. United Steelworkers eventually unionized the adjunct/freelance faculty. Everyone else was at-will and reminded of it frequently.

https://www.passhe.edu/inside/HR/LR/Pages/default.aspx

[complaint_hopeful]

Wow - Even with the optimistic enrollment numbers, it's going to take the West well into the future to break even.

IF they have an enrollment loss early on from the Integration, this could get bad.

[complaint_hopeful]

Union contracts also dictate layoffs go by seniority. Even after constant retirement incentives, they're still going to lay off the younger, lesser paid faculty instead of somehow focusing on need or performance. A professor I had at Edinboro has been there since 2003 and was laid off. 17 years in (halfway to retirement) and still considered low seniority.

Interesting, some departments of staff at these schools are managers and the same department at other schools has a mixture of managers and staff. It's going to be interesting how that plays out.

[complaint_hopeful]

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. The schools exist to provide a college education at a low cost to students. A *huge* secondary benefit is for the communities with an influx of well-paying jobs. Its not the reason to oppose the plan but it absolutely has to be mentioned. There's a big ripple effect when you lose these jobs: people leave and aren't replaced, houses go unsold and bring down the value of remaining homes, people meaning means school population drops and in turn state funding drops, churches lose people and lose money, etc. This rationale is why the state refuses to close the few remaining state hospitals or consolidate prisons.

Job losses were coming whether through the redesign or not. The whole mandate to get things down to the 2010 staffing levels called for that. And it applies to schools outside the Triads.

I think I saw in one article that IUP might lose up to 400 employees. The community will DEFINATELY feel that.

I think the only way to avoid that would be for the state to give PASSHE higher funding.