PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

Generally upper management isn't who installs processes. It's more mid-level managers who need to assess their areas and do that.

As far as it being good that individuals make decisions on everything...WHY is that good? Like when I call somewhere to enroll, why does the person I talk to have to come up with the process for me to enroll on the fly? That's totally a case for defining a process that is used by everyone.

ie Fill out an application, then this step, then that step, then you're a student.

As usual, I have no idea what you're saying. I do have a question for you, though. Do you work for Greenstein? Are you on here to try to neutralize the conversation?

[complaint_hopeful]

I don't think you understand what I was saying. To break it down, I was criticizing the "process maturity" model that you associate with greater consolidation, i see your justification as increased bureaucracy where individuals lose control. You also characterize the individual schools' administration as essentially incompetent and I don't think that's the case, and, if it were, it wouldn't matter too much.

You want "process maturity?" Wait until these school groupings are a reality and see how the process of serving individuals goes.

Generally upper management isn't who installs processes. It's more mid-level managers who need to assess their areas and do that.

As far as it being good that individuals make decisions on everything...WHY is that good? Like when I call somewhere to enroll, why does the person I talk to have to come up with the process for me to enroll on the fly? That's totally a case for defining a process that is used by everyone.

ie Fill out an application, then this step, then that step, then you're a student.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I agree - my school district has grown and continues to share its research into growth projections with taxpayers. All these presidents had to do is maintain a relationship with local school districts and they'd hear what is going on. I do think a few thought they were able to outsmart the others. But in hindsight its industry-wide.

Part of this is that nearly all PASSHE presidents are first timers and use system universities as an internship. The 40th-percentile salary gets you that. Presidents come in, make strategic decisions to build a resume, then jump ship for a pay raise. You can't earn a promotion by staying the course for four years. For example, Julie Wollman averaged $250k when she was president at Edinboro 2012-2016. She then jumped to Widener where she makes $550k plus her husband gets an annual $30k fee for "consulting duties."

Good for her. That's a heck of a jump.

We're small schools that unfortunately not enough people care about in the big picture. As a sports parallel, the goal of most of our coaches is to get a 'resume line' and get the heck out of here as fast as possible -- especially assistants. If the president pay range remains the same then it will just be a pretty constant revolving door. That being said I think fresh blood is often good after so many years. If you get 4-5 years from one of these hires that's probably pretty good.

[iupgroundhog]

Process maturity is neither good or bad by itself, but in a public service oriented business, it is important to success. But managers need to be able to identify which processes are working and contributing to success and which are f'ed up and costing time and money. Holding on to a failed process just because it is "mature" is a very bureaucratic thing to do. Unfortuanatly, shared services like envisioned tends to increase bureaucracy.

Process maturity, consolidation, streamlining - this all comes with the territory. The goal is to save money. All the talk about serving the needs of students is hogwash, in my opinion. That will probably not happen.

Something like "process maturity" is minutiae. It's just jargon in this context. The organizational factor that is paramount and overrides everything else is centralization. And, I would add, everything that comes with it.

[boatcapt]

I don't think you understand what I was saying. To break it down, I was criticizing the "process maturity" model that you associate with greater consolidation, i see your justification as increased bureaucracy where individuals lose control. You also characterize the individual schools' administration as essentially incompetent and I don't think that's the case, and, if it were, it wouldn't matter too much.

You want "process maturity?" Wait until these school groupings are a reality and see how the process of serving individuals goes.

Process maturity is neither good or bad by itself, but in a public service oriented business, it is important to success. But managers need to be able to identify which processes are working and contributing to success and which are f'ed up and costing time and money. Holding on to a failed process just because it is "mature" is a very bureaucratic thing to do. Unfortuanatly, shared services like envisioned tends to increase bureaucracy.

[Fightingscot82]

As a manager/executive, you are always going to have to address problems. Good leaders address them when they are small and easier to manage...Poor managers wait until the problem is so huge that it threatens to sink the whole operation. Imagine were the individual schools would be if 7 years ago, a forward thinking leader had looked at enrolement numbers, state demographic projections, school labor costs (you know, the things a good leader should be aware of!!) and made the then small "course corrections" necessary to address them? But instead the PASSHE had a collection of Titanic Captains who plowed their schools full speed ahead into an ice field!!!!

I agree - my school district has grown and continues to share its research into growth projections with taxpayers. All these presidents had to do is maintain a relationship with local school districts and they'd hear what is going on. I do think a few thought they were able to outsmart the others. But in hindsight its industry-wide.

Part of this is that nearly all PASSHE presidents are first timers and use system universities as an internship. The 40th-percentile salary gets you that. Presidents come in, make strategic decisions to build a resume, then jump ship for a pay raise. You can't earn a promotion by staying the course for four years. For example, Julie Wollman averaged $250k when she was president at Edinboro 2012-2016. She then jumped to Widener where she makes $550k plus her husband gets an annual $30k fee for "consulting duties."

[iupgroundhog]

Yep. No concern for the outcome ie helping the student.

Some areas are so messed up by lack of process that they hire a full-time employee to facilitate something because of a lack of defined process...then people on campus think the employee is the process.

And I do agree that the major 'fight' against the Integrations is what you detail. The Universities are at a point financially where they must be streamlined and that's going to entail staff and faculty reduction...and they're fighting it tooth and nail.

I don't think you understand what I was saying. To break it down, I was criticizing the "process maturity" model that you associate with greater consolidation, i see your justification as increased bureaucracy where individuals lose control. You also characterize the individual schools' administration as essentially incompetent and I don't think that's the case, and, if it were, it wouldn't matter too much.

You want "process maturity?" Wait until these school groupings are a reality and see how the process of serving individuals goes.

[boatcapt]

In my last job, I noticed that nearly all employees had their own printers in their individual offices, even though we had a very expensive high volume color laser machine in the suite. I convinced my VP do away with them and paper usage plummeted.

The only thing Zoom can't replicate is open office hours for students. Today's students don't call or email so appointment-making isn't in their nature.

"PC load letter?" What's that supposed to mean!!!!

This whole PASSHE process reminds me completly of Office Space!! I'd be the neighbor who Peter asked what he'd do with a million dollars - "I tell you what I'd do. Two chicks at the same time."

[boatcapt]

And that's more of what I'm talking about. Modernize. Streamline. Do those things before a drastic integration.

Unfortunately, I feel like those things needed done 5-7 years ago.

As a manager/executive, you are always going to have to address problems. Good leaders address them when they are small and easier to manage...Poor managers wait until the problem is so huge that it threatens to sink the whole operation. Imagine were the individual schools would be if 7 years ago, a forward thinking leader had looked at enrolement numbers, state demographic projections, school labor costs (you know, the things a good leader should be aware of!!) and made the then small "course corrections" necessary to address them? But instead the PASSHE had a collection of Titanic Captains who plowed their schools full speed ahead into an ice field!!!!

[complaint_hopeful]

Pennsylvania's State System of Higher Education
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[complaint_hopeful]

I think they used to call that bureaucracy (back in the old days).

In bureaucratic systems individuals lose control and feel helpless. Change becomes more difficult.

Less local control, more detachment from the actual processes. Maturity - perhaps.

Oh, and I forgot to mention. Less concern for the outcome on behalf of the staff member. Less personal responsibility and less personal investment on the ground level. The "identity" part starts slipping away.

Yep. No concern for the outcome ie helping the student.

Some areas are so messed up by lack of process that they hire a full-time employee to facilitate something because of a lack of defined process...then people on campus think the employee is the process.

And I do agree that the major 'fight' against the Integrations is what you detail. The Universities are at a point financially where they must be streamlined and that's going to entail staff and faculty reduction...and they're fighting it tooth and nail.

[complaint_hopeful]

In my last job, I noticed that nearly all employees had their own printers in their individual offices, even though we had a very expensive high volume color laser machine in the suite. I convinced my VP do away with them and paper usage plummeted.

The only thing Zoom can't replicate is open office hours for students. Today's students don't call or email so appointment-making isn't in their nature.

Yep. And those single-user printers are the most expensive to operate for ink too.

[iupgroundhog]

There are maturity models like Gartner that detail how mature you are in an area. Like Level 0 is no process at all - chaotic. Level 1 is Reactive...and it steps up. So Leve 1, something happens and you just handle it however you think

What I mean is you call one of these colleges for say Admissions, and it gets handled one way. Then you call and get another person and they handle it another way. And maybe they make a mistake and the process isn't complete. Then, another person calls you like you are totally new. Then, maybe after you are enrolled...someone calls you to ask you if you'd like to enroll. (Something very similar to this happened to be a few years ago at one of these schools.)

What I mean by process maturity, is you have a defined process that each of the reps follow and it's consistent each time. Not dependent on who answers the phone.

And this goes for other areas. Like I recently heard about a student who wanted to drop a class from one of these colleges, but they were in Colorado. So the school requires paper documents and wanted it sent to the school. Why not go digital? Why not make it a form online?

Stuff like that...and it adds up over the course of a students time on a campus. And the Mega online providers have it down. They make becoming a customer VERY easy.

If you look at these schools, they don't have super defined processes and would be pretty low on maturity models if assessed.

As far as standardization being what people are afraid of - You have to do it in the Triads for certain areas...especially business areas. You basically have to do it or this will be chaotic. Now that doesn't mean that schools lose their identities.

I think they used to call that bureaucracy (back in the old days).

In bureaucratic systems individuals lose control and feel helpless. Change becomes more difficult.

Less local control, more detachment from the actual processes. Maturity - perhaps.

Oh, and I forgot to mention. Less concern for the outcome on behalf of the staff member. Less personal responsibility and less personal investment on the ground level. The "identity" part starts slipping away.

[Fightingscot82]

In this day and age, hard paper for any administrative task should be the rare, RARE, exception to the rule. Heck, the need to come into an office to discuss any part of a students administration (applications for this and that, admissions, course scheduling, etc) should also be rare. But the trouble with bureaucracies is that "dinosaurs" often roam the halls and get into positions of authority. These dinosaurs are comfortable with what the process they learned 15 years ago and are unwilling to change.

In my last job, I noticed that nearly all employees had their own printers in their individual offices, even though we had a very expensive high volume color laser machine in the suite. I convinced my VP do away with them and paper usage plummeted.

The only thing Zoom can't replicate is open office hours for students. Today's students don't call or email so appointment-making isn't in their nature.

[complaint_hopeful]

In this day and age, hard paper for any administrative task should be the rare, RARE, exception to the rule. Heck, the need to come into an office to discuss any part of a students administration (applications for this and that, admissions, course scheduling, etc) should also be rare. But the trouble with bureaucracies is that "dinosaurs" often roam the halls and get into positions of authority. These dinosaurs are comfortable with what the process they learned 15 years ago and are unwilling to change.

And that's more of what I'm talking about. Modernize. Streamline. Do those things before a drastic integration.

Unfortunately, I feel like those things needed done 5-7 years ago.