PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

The population cliff meets Covid cocktail is hurting beyond Pennsylvania. I just saw that Ithaca College, a private liberal arts college with a national reputation and a $350M endowment, is eliminating 130 full time faculty jobs and cutting dozens of programs. Rough time to be a young college professor.

Interesting. Ithaca is a great school. I wonder if they have a similar geography problem as some of the PASSHE. Ithaca is pretty remote and it's not Cornell.

[Fightingscot82]

The population cliff meets Covid cocktail is hurting beyond Pennsylvania. I just saw that Ithaca College, a private liberal arts college with a national reputation and a $350M endowment, is eliminating 130 full time faculty jobs and cutting dozens of programs. Rough time to be a young college professor.

[Fightingscot82]

IUP positions itself somewhere in the middle - or in both worlds. Low grade imitation? Perhaps.

However, this doesn't apply to IUP in the same way. IUP has a lot of students involved in research. Plus, the graduate school is keeping IUP afloat.

This fall, the graduate school is keeping prodigal son Slippery Rock afloat too.

[iupgroundhog]

Good points. I wasn't thinking program accreditation as much as Middle States.

I think on the academic sides of all PASSHE schools, there needs to be a reckoning. These schools can't support research beyond what is required for rank promotion. The students sure don't. These are teaching universities and always have been. Be the best version of yourself, not a low grade imitation of something else. Attract faculty who value teaching and sell that to students.

IUP positions itself somewhere in the middle - or in both worlds. Low grade imitation? Perhaps.

However, this doesn't apply to IUP in the same way. IUP has a lot of students involved in research. Plus, the graduate school is keeping IUP afloat.

[Fightingscot82]

I've been involved in a number of accreditation processes, and while it may be true that you don't need a named department to pass accreditation requirements, it is nearly impossible to hire, for example, Physics faculty with the credentials and abilities you need to have your programs accredited if there is not a departmen, and only a couple other physics profst. Keep in mind there is general accreditation like mid-states, and then there is program accreditation which are also important and often focuses on faculty credentials. Then there is the view of students, who see fewer majors, who aren't recruited in the same way. The mergers get around this, but at a pretty high cost.

Good points. I wasn't thinking program accreditation as much as Middle States.

I think on the academic sides of all PASSHE schools, there needs to be a reckoning. These schools can't support research beyond what is required for rank promotion. The students sure don't. These are teaching universities and always have been. Be the best version of yourself, not a low grade imitation of something else. Attract faculty who value teaching and sell that to students.

[iupgroundhog]

I've been involved in a number of accreditation processes, and while it may be true that you don't need a named department to pass accreditation requirements, it is nearly impossible to hire, for example, Physics faculty with the credentials and abilities you need to have your programs accredited if there is not a departmen, and only a couple other physics profst. Keep in mind there is general accreditation like mid-states, and then there is program accreditation which are also important and often focuses on faculty credentials. Then there is the view of students, who see fewer majors, who aren't recruited in the same way. The mergers get around this, but at a pretty high cost.

What's the alternative?

[boatcapt]

Back in the day, schools offered different degree programs. I remember ESU having the best computer science program in the entire system. You went to West Chester if you wanted to study music. It seems that schools will go back to specializing in certain programs of study... ESU ended their music degree program a few years ago. There were something like 8 students in that major at the time. Expect more moves like that...

I expect the same...Each of the remaining PASSHE schools offering general education and then beyond that offering majors in particular areas. For example, one of the existing PASSHE schools becoming the "School of Health Care"...One being the "School of Business Studies"...etc.

[boatcapt]

Cuts are starting to come out, there will be more detail in 2 weeks. The idea is to cut low enrollment programs to the bone. The thing is some low enrollment programs are essential to an accredited university - Physics and Philosophy for instance. The mergers allow alot more programs to be cut, and still have a viable university. I tend to agree that the merger is not a great idea, and expect it is more sort of a thunderdome for these schools. It will be interesting how they will deal with things like endowments. How will it effect donors ? will anyone want to donate to the merged university ?

One of the things mentioned is a single accreditation for these university groupings so if a particular degree track is required for the school to receive accreditation, they would only need to offer it at one campus.

[ironmaniup]

Faculty often pass rumors that accreditation requires certain majors or departments. Sometimes it's they can't keep university status. Simply not true.

You can keep essential courses from a department without having a full blown department or a degree program.

Kudos on the Thunderdome reference.

I've been involved in a number of accreditation processes, and while it may be true that you don't need a named department to pass accreditation requirements, it is nearly impossible to hire, for example, Physics faculty with the credentials and abilities you need to have your programs accredited if there is not a departmen, and only a couple other physics profst. Keep in mind there is general accreditation like mid-states, and then there is program accreditation which are also important and often focuses on faculty credentials. Then there is the view of students, who see fewer majors, who aren't recruited in the same way. The mergers get around this, but at a pretty high cost.

[Fightingscot82]

Cuts are starting to come out, there will be more detail in 2 weeks. The idea is to cut low enrollment programs to the bone. The thing is some low enrollment programs are essential to an accredited university - Physics and Philosophy for instance. The mergers allow alot more programs to be cut, and still have a viable university. I tend to agree that the merger is not a great idea, and expect it is more sort of a thunderdome for these schools. It will be interesting how they will deal with things like endowments. How will it effect donors ? will anyone want to donate to the merged university ?

Faculty often pass rumors that accreditation requires certain majors or departments. Sometimes it's they can't keep university status. Simply not true.

You can keep essential courses from a department without having a full blown department or a degree program.

Kudos on the Thunderdome reference.

[Fightingscot82]

Edinboro president must see the writing on the wall.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202010160167

He won't have a job in 2 years.

[ironmaniup]

Presidents make well under market in PASSHE. Most are in the $250k range. So let's say their total compensation is $400k. These schools aren't going to sell off the president's residence - at Cal its an apartment. Somebody also needs to be in charge on the local level. It's also going to cost more for Dale Pehrsson to cover all that territory from Clarion. I don't see much savings. That's an unusual strain on VPs or Deans or Department Chairs who have to cover those three schools, supervise departments at those schools, etc.

I don't see any advantage to a consolidated name (or much of this at all). Changing the name to WPSU-Clarion or UWP-Clarion doesn't amplify anything in the same way creating PASSHE didn't amplify anything. If the goal is to salvage their individual identities, cutting athletics certainly does more to hurt their identity than. Consolidating athletics could be considered but you're still risking losing more tuition dollars than the program costs to operate including alumni support.

Obviously I'm against this plan. I don't see how it helps any of the six schools. I don't see how it saves the schools. Students don't want to attend a branch campus, otherwise the Penn State outlet stores would be more successful. The program cuts hurt but will create real savings. Forcing the leadership (VPs, Deans, Presidents, Trustees) to get more creative in their strategy would be a great start. More aggressive admissions marketing would help too.

Cuts are starting to come out, there will be more detail in 2 weeks. The idea is to cut low enrollment programs to the bone. The thing is some low enrollment programs are essential to an accredited university - Physics and Philosophy for instance. The mergers allow alot more programs to be cut, and still have a viable university. I tend to agree that the merger is not a great idea, and expect it is more sort of a thunderdome for these schools. It will be interesting how they will deal with things like endowments. How will it effect donors ? will anyone want to donate to the merged university ?

[WarriorVoice]

One of the cost savings that being highlighted is through "shared services." Why have three seporate functions when you can have one that is shared by all three. Starting to hear that about entire programs in these groupings (why should all three campuses offer Political Science degrees (for example)? You can safe $ by eliminating this degree track at all but one campus). Same goes with athletics, why have three redundant (and expensive) and competing football programs when you can focus your resources at one location? If you are looking at these campus groupings as single units, why would you pay for 3 head football coaches (and staffs) and staff, 6 head basketball head coaches (and staffs), etc? When you are shaking the seat cusions for lose change, how can you justify paying for 6 head basketball coaches when you can get by with 2??

Back in the day, schools offered different degree programs. I remember ESU having the best computer science program in the entire system. You went to West Chester if you wanted to study music. It seems that schools will go back to specializing in certain programs of study... ESU ended their music degree program a few years ago. There were something like 8 students in that major at the time. Expect more moves like that...

[Bart]

Edinboro president must see the writing on the wall.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202010160167

[Fightingscot82]

Really dissecting this financially even if they kept the athletic teams at each university they'd still save money as there would be 1 University President rather than 3, It would allow maybe the schools to keep their original name under the California and Bloomsburg umbrellas such as California-Clarion, California-Edinboro similar to the State of California University system where they have Cal-Berkley, Cal-Davis, UCLA.

Presidents make well under market in PASSHE. Most are in the $250k range. So let's say their total compensation is $400k. These schools aren't going to sell off the president's residence - at Cal its an apartment. Somebody also needs to be in charge on the local level. It's also going to cost more for Dale Pehrsson to cover all that territory from Clarion. I don't see much savings. That's an unusual strain on VPs or Deans or Department Chairs who have to cover those three schools, supervise departments at those schools, etc.

I don't see any advantage to a consolidated name (or much of this at all). Changing the name to WPSU-Clarion or UWP-Clarion doesn't amplify anything in the same way creating PASSHE didn't amplify anything. If the goal is to salvage their individual identities, cutting athletics certainly does more to hurt their identity than. Consolidating athletics could be considered but you're still risking losing more tuition dollars than the program costs to operate including alumni support.

Obviously I'm against this plan. I don't see how it helps any of the six schools. I don't see how it saves the schools. Students don't want to attend a branch campus, otherwise the Penn State outlet stores would be more successful. The program cuts hurt but will create real savings. Forcing the leadership (VPs, Deans, Presidents, Trustees) to get more creative in their strategy would be a great start. More aggressive admissions marketing would help too.