PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

We will never know whether some PASSHE schools could have made it as a private institution. Most people thought that would have been an uphill struggle. Not only that, it would have meant abandoning their central mission of providing educational opportunities within reach of all Pennsylvanians.

I never thought Armenti was right. Sure, he cast a light on the decreased state subsidy. However, I didn't think the answer was to abandon their state relationship. I thought the answer at the time was to fight for an adequate subsidy from the state. That's a completely different direction.

TBH, I think none would survive. If any, only West Chester just because of where its located and its slightly above average academic rankings. Who knows - maybe they would improve as a private university.

[iupgroundhog]

WCU asked to do it, and were eventually denied. The conversation at IUP was about the difficulty in transition, certain administrative jobs are easier if you just do it the way PASSHE tells you. The status quo has alot of inertia. Of course, Armenti's removal for malfeasance didn't help much. I still wonder how much his outspoken stance earned him a more forceful takedown. Of course he still says he's innocent, as does Petit.

I think you are conflating 2 different things. As I recall, Armenti's push for breaking from the state system was around 2008-09 and focused on privatization. West Chester's secession idea was about 5 or 6 years later and focused on disassociating itself from PASSHE (and the rest of the schools). The idea surfaced at WCU only when they found themselves gaining enrollment.

Publicly anyway, Armenti was a lone wolf promoting his plan and it mostly just was centered on Cal U since it was his job to save the school and his background was in private universities.

[IUPNation]

I've looked at the approved PA State Budget for the last few years and if I'm reading it right, it doesn't look like the PASSHE budget has been cut over the last 10 years. By year, the PASSHE budget has been:

2020 $477.47M (% change from previous year 0%)
2019 $477.47M (+2%)
2018 $468.108M (+3.3%)
2017 $453.108M (+2%)
2016 $444.224M (+2.5%)
2015 $433.389M (+5%)
2014 $412.751M (0%)
2013 $412.751M (0%)
2012 $412.751M (0%)
2011 $412.751M

So if I'm right, PASSHE budget has increased 15.7% over the last 10 years with all of that coming in the last six years. Note that during the same time period the PA State budget as a whole decreased by over 5%.

It was 477 million in 2009....

[ironmaniup]

If it was such a good idea how come no other schools jumped on the Armenti bandwagon? He certainly promoted it.

WCU asked to do it, and were eventually denied. The conversation at IUP was about the difficulty in transition, certain administrative jobs are easier if you just do it the way PASSHE tells you. The status quo has alot of inertia. Of course, Armenti's removal for malfeasance didn't help much. I still wonder how much his outspoken stance earned him a more forceful takedown. Of course he still says he's innocent, as does Petit.

[boatcapt]

The budget has gone up and the revenue has gone way down. Not a good combination.

Question is, were are the "extra" $'s going?

[iupgroundhog]

It would have been uphill, the assumption was that the schools would receive state money, like the other state related schools, but the split would have changed the costly and difficult state regulations with regard to purchasing, HR, contracts, hiring, and more. The advantage the state supported schools have in these areas is pretty significant. Just the prevailing wage law cost the university millions. The gaming of the sometimes unfair funding formulas the state used also ended up costing more than they gained. They have rolled pack some things recently, but not near enough.

If it was such a good idea how come no other schools jumped on the Armenti bandwagon? He certainly promoted it.

[complaint_hopeful]

Not making any particular point. Just showing that the PASSHE budget has not been cut and has actually gone up.

For the sake of accuracy, I appreciate your post. I do recall it going up slightly a few years. Your numbers show it came up 5 years. The cuts just happened way before. Interestingly the peak enrollment was what 2010? So they cut the budget before that, but then when things turned bad enrollment wise, didn't raise it at a correspondingly needed rate.

If we were even funded at the level of the 25th best state system...we'd be fine.

[complaint_hopeful]

We will never know whether some PASSHE schools could have made it as a private institution. Most people thought that would have been an uphill struggle. Not only that, it would have meant abandoning their central mission of providing educational opportunities within reach of all Pennsylvanians.

I never thought Armenti was right. Sure, he cast a light on the decreased state subsidy. However, I didn't think the answer was to abandon their state relationship. I thought the answer at the time was to fight for an adequate subsidy from the state. That's a completely different direction.

I feel like they've been lobbying the state for years for increased subsidy...but it keeps going down a lot of years or just up slightly. The stat about how we're among the lowest in state funding in the US is pretty telling.

Just a gut feel, but I feel like not many lawmakers in PA went to State Schools. They went to the Pitt's, Penn State's, Temple's, and Villanova's. Obviously this isn't 100%, but in general. I feel like they view state schools as filled with fat cat employees getting rich off of the taxpayer dime. Obviously that's not accurate either. I feel like some of the public Union vs Management battles put these perceptions out there in kind of a collateral damage way. So they aren't going to increase funding.

Now once Greenstein accomplishes his plan and drastically trims the fat and goes way beyond that...the state may start increasing funding if it's needed. But, until that happens, they won't do it.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Not making any particular point. Just showing that the PASSHE budget has not been cut and has actually gone up.

The budget has gone up and the revenue has gone way down. Not a good combination.

[boatcapt]

What is the point? These numbers might be accurate but they are also taken out of context. PA is 48th out of 50 states in funding higher education. That is pitiful. Also, the decline in funding has taken place over a 30 year period. Even if the $$ remain the same from one year to the next it hasn't kept up with the cost of the education and that's the problem.

All this shows is that during a Republican administration under Corbett the budget stayed at the same level (too low) but when a Democrat (Wolf) took over the subsidy rose every year. That is the same trend as you'll find if you go back before Corbett to Democrat Rendell. Rendell also increased the funding. It's always the same story.

Not making any particular point. Just showing that the PASSHE budget has not been cut and has actually gone up.

[ironmaniup]

We will never know whether some PASSHE schools could have made it as a private institution. Most people thought that would have been an uphill struggle. Not only that, it would have meant abandoning their central mission of providing educational opportunities within reach of all Pennsylvanians.

I never thought Armenti was right. Sure, he cast a light on the decreased state subsidy. However, I didn't think the answer was to abandon their state relationship. I thought the answer at the time was to fight for an adequate subsidy from the state. That's a completely different direction.

It would have been uphill, the assumption was that the schools would receive state money, like the other state related schools, but the split would have changed the costly and difficult state regulations with regard to purchasing, HR, contracts, hiring, and more. The advantage the state supported schools have in these areas is pretty significant. Just the prevailing wage law cost the university millions. The gaming of the sometimes unfair funding formulas the state used also ended up costing more than they gained. They have rolled pack some things recently, but not near enough.

[iupgroundhog]

I've looked at the approved PA State Budget for the last few years and if I'm reading it right, it doesn't look like the PASSHE budget has been cut over the last 10 years. By year, the PASSHE budget has been:

2020 $477.47M (% change from previous year 0%)
2019 $477.47M (+2%)
2018 $468.108M (+3.3%)
2017 $453.108M (+2%)
2016 $444.224M (+2.5%)
2015 $433.389M (+5%)
2014 $412.751M (0%)
2013 $412.751M (0%)
2012 $412.751M (0%)
2011 $412.751M

So if I'm right, PASSHE budget has increased 15.7% over the last 10 years with all of that coming in the last six years. Note that during the same time period the PA State budget as a whole decreased by over 5%.

What is the point? These numbers might be accurate but they are also taken out of context. PA is 48th out of 50 states in funding higher education. That is pitiful. Also, the decline in funding has taken place over a 30 year period. Even if the $$ remain the same from one year to the next it hasn't kept up with the cost of the education and that's the problem.

All this shows is that during a Republican administration under Corbett the budget stayed at the same level (too low) but when a Democrat (Wolf) took over the subsidy rose every year. That is the same trend as you'll find if you go back before Corbett to Democrat Rendell. Rendell also increased the funding. It's always the same story.

[boatcapt]

I've looked at the approved PA State Budget for the last few years and if I'm reading it right, it doesn't look like the PASSHE budget has been cut over the last 10 years. By year, the PASSHE budget has been:

2020 $477.47M (% change from previous year 0%)
2019 $477.47M (+2%)
2018 $468.108M (+3.3%)
2017 $453.108M (+2%)
2016 $444.224M (+2.5%)
2015 $433.389M (+5%)
2014 $412.751M (0%)
2013 $412.751M (0%)
2012 $412.751M (0%)
2011 $412.751M

So if I'm right, PASSHE budget has increased 15.7% over the last 10 years with all of that coming in the last six years. Note that during the same time period the PA State budget as a whole decreased by over 5%.

[iupgroundhog]

Armenti was right, and a few years ago the schools that were doing well when WCU wanted to go it alone should have pushed for it. IUP SRU WCU Millersville, and Bloom could have probably made it, had they been able to get out from under the state regs, and union contracts then. I disagree about Greenstein though. He's wasted alot of time with useless meetings and commissions. He's very clearly just a hatchet man, though definitely Smooth - I don't believe he was ever seriously re-imagining the system. He was just providing the sweet talk before he dropped the ax. Would Bidens Plan of more federal money for students at state schools help ? Short term maybe a little, But I doubt it will pass, as most states outside of PA already really subsidize their students. The final bill will peobably give the states scontroll of the money. and there is still the PSU branches.

We will never know whether some PASSHE schools could have made it as a private institution. Most people thought that would have been an uphill struggle. Not only that, it would have meant abandoning their central mission of providing educational opportunities within reach of all Pennsylvanians.

I never thought Armenti was right. Sure, he cast a light on the decreased state subsidy. However, I didn't think the answer was to abandon their state relationship. I thought the answer at the time was to fight for an adequate subsidy from the state. That's a completely different direction.

[iupgroundhog]

The short window is the hand that Greenstein was dealt. The law that gives the PASSHE the ability to effect change without Legislative approval had a 3 year shelf-life AND levied a whole raft of meetings, hearings, re-writes and "consultations" before anything actually goes into effect. While it would be more effective to make changes to the system as part of a logical process, the controversial nature of some of the changes such as academic staff cuts means that those changes are going to take longer that less controversial changes (such as shared services). That makes the process somewhat herky jerky.

Greenstein and the PASSHE have been given 3 years to impliment their plan before the Legislature steps back in. I said when they started that they REALLY needed to have the changes made in 2 years which would give them 1 year to show success. That would make it more difficult for the politicans to step back in and enter political alliances that might be good for a local community or two that they serve, but not good for the PASSHE as a whole. Any changes made in the last year of the law would face a very real chance of being repealed by the Legislature.

Well, it shouldn't be the PASSHE versus the state legislature. It's a real problem that these small-town/rural areas that house the PASSHE schools have gone Republican in terms of their representation.

These Republicans that they voted in might make the locals feel good as far as gun rights and "conservative values", but when it comes to stuff like economic development and keeping these areas in the PA hinterlands relevant they are going to strike out - in fact, they aren't even going to come to bat.

There should be a coalition of state legislators supporting the system right now. Maybe I don't know about it but I don't think there is.

To paraphrase Walter Cronkite, ' And that's the way it is, October 11, 2020.'