PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

Absolutely. But I'm talking about debt. I'm not looking up any numbers but I've read that they do not have much. Unfortunately, IUP has the most lost revenue from a drop in enrollment AND they have a lot of debt.(Looking for FS82 to chime in here). If I'm missing the boat here, let me know.

Debt isn't something PASSHE makes regularly available. Yes, I too recall seeing Lock Haven with significantly less construction debt than the others. Clarion as well.

[CALUPA69]

Look at Slippery Rock! It's enough to turn some a little Crimson-faced!!

Wonder how many transferred or opted in at SRU from the other 4 Western schools. Hopefully the BOG is taking an in-depth look at how the folks in Butler county are getting it done.

[WarriorVoice]

Look at Slippery Rock! It's enough to turn some a little Crimson-faced!!

[Bart]

As a teenager, I really loathed being in a small town like Lock Haven. I didn't really appreciate the virtues of that area until I was in my 30's. I applied to and was accepted to, IUP, Bloom, and Penn State (Altoona campus). I started out as a Business major and later changed to Econ. Those 3 schools had Business and no other state schools did. We tend to forget that at that time IUP was IUP and the rest were more or less still teacher's colleges.

(BTW, before you mention it I know Indiana is a small town but the campus was pretty great. It was a big deal to be a university then. Now it means nothing.)

IUP probably had wrestling back in your day. I recall being there for the PSAC Championships.

[iupgroundhog]

Absolutely. But I'm talking about debt. I'm not looking up any numbers but I've read that they do not have much. Unfortunately, IUP has the most lost revenue from a drop in enrollment AND they have a lot of debt.(Looking for FS82 to chime in here). If I'm missing the boat here, let me know.

[Matt Burglund]

Actually, LHU is in much better financial shape than most of the schools.

You might be right, I don't know.

But based on this graphic, LHU's enrollment is down 42% from where it was in 2010. Only Cheyney, Edinboro, and Mansfield have bigger drops.

If tuition was roughly $20k in 2010, that's $109 million in income. If it's $25k now, that's $79 million in income. That's a pretty serious drop in income from 10 years ago, even more so when you factor in inflation.

[iupgroundhog]

Once in my work life I remarked to a colleague that my resume should include professionalism in reducing costs. I will almost guarantee with certainty that the items mentioned in this thread will be way insufficient to meet the goals of preserving many of our universities. What is being talked about here is "low hanging fruit." It may even be irrelevant. Should these easy things be done? Sure. But real change demands hard, bold decisions and pain. Lock Haven for example should be trimmed to the bone and center on the Physicians Assistant program. Maybe there are related healthcare fields that could be added. Also, let's be clear that when the dust settles, athletics could be a sport or two. Thinking D II football at every school is an unrealistic dream.

I don't think the characterization of "low hanging fruit" is appropriate. This is all a pretty big deal. Greenstein knows big changes have to be made but there are a lot of obstacles. The fact that these measures passed through the PA legislature unanimously is important. That's a big deal.

This is just the first stage of the process. They have to see what the outcomes are and then move further. There are mostly unknowns right now.

I know everybody has their own predictions about this but here are a few observations.

Unless the state suddenly throws support to IUP in its quest to be a viable national research university. IUP's enrollment could well slip below 10K. If so, I believe it will be eligible for consolidation/integration/merger, whatever you want to call it. I think the point of the current legislation is that any school with enrollment of 10K or more is exempt. Right now that is IUP and WCU. But what if IUP comes under 10K?

In 5 years, here is my vision of the way it will look.

SRU/Boro - one school with HQ in Butler County

IUP/Clarion/Cal - one school with HQ in Indiana. Enrollment at all 3 is likely to decline and the 3 will consolidate under IUP Ship might even become a part of it because they are in deep trouble. This all forms a pretty strong entity. Since IUP will end up at about 60% of capacity, a PSU-like model where the other 2 or 3 schools end up as 2-year feeders into the main campus could be an option.

LHU/Mansfield - This is a no-brainer. If Bloom continues to decline (probable) it might end up joining with them.

Cheyney remains independent - they have a lot going for them now with corporate support.

WCU probably remains independent - Just based on the strength of their enrollment

Depending on how the big mergers//consolidations/integrations fare in the West, you could also see Millersville, Kutztown, and ESU combine with HQ at Kutztown.

So, you end up with 6 or so entities. There is an optimal ratio between administration and enrollment. If schools become more closely integrated and eventually into one it makes sense to "right size" that ratio. It's clearly inefficient now.

I think it will be interesting to sit back and watch this happen.

[iupgroundhog]

Why did you decide on IUP instead of LHU?

As a teenager, I really loathed being in a small town like Lock Haven. I didn't really appreciate the virtues of that area until I was in my 30's. I applied to and was accepted to, IUP, Bloom, and Penn State (Altoona campus). I started out as a Business major and later changed to Econ. Those 3 schools had Business and no other state schools did. We tend to forget that at that time IUP was IUP and the rest were more or less still teacher's colleges.

(BTW, before you mention it I know Indiana is a small town but the campus was pretty great. It was a big deal to be a university then. Now it means nothing.)

[Bart]

No doubt these measures are just the first step to get the ball rolling. But why single out Lock Haven? Sure, it's a small school but they aren't in worse shape than many of the others, including our own alma mater. Actually, LHU is in much better financial shape than most of the schools. They have a number of good programs beyond the PA program (which was started and run by a childhood friend of mine). Many of their athletics-related programs are really good, also Sports Administration, geology, education, to name a few off the top of my head. It's always been a place that developed teachers and coaches. They are actually prolific at producing coaches.

Perhaps more important, "the college" is an integral part of the community. Having been born and raised there I can say the town/gown relationship in LH is as good as any of the PASSHE schools and it's always been that way.

What they are doing now with LH/Mansfield makes perfect sense. In fact, if you go back to my old thread "The PASSHE - our alma maters" my primary thinking was to make these schools into engines for economic growth in PA. I suggested a partnership with the PA Dept, of Labor and that is very close to what the "integration" plans for. It's a different purpose, more geared towards workforce development. It's a good idea. LHU can serve the economic development needs of that region better than any other educational institution.

Also, it's such a key cog in the local economy. I can't imagine Lock Haven without the college. It's going to be there. And its presence will be greater over time than some of these other schools.

Maybe LHU gets bashed on here so much because it's a football forum and they stink in football. Not sure.

For the record, I'm always going to defend LHU. My grandmother went there, my godmother went there, my godfather donated into 8 figures to it over his lifetime and is one of few people ever awarded an honorary degree, my mother grew up across the street from it on Susquehanna Ave., my brother went there.

I hope it survives and I think it will.

Why did you decide on IUP instead of LHU?

[boatcapt]

Once in my work life I remarked to a colleague that my resume should include professionalism in reducing costs. I will almost guarantee with certainty that the items mentioned in this thread will be way insufficient to meet the goals of preserving many of our universities. What is being talked about here is "low hanging fruit." It may even be irrelevant. Should these easy things be done? Sure. But real change demands hard, bold decisions and pain. Lock Haven for example should be trimmed to the bone and center on the Physicians Assistant program. Maybe there are related healthcare fields that could be added. Also, let's be clear that when the dust settles, athletics could be a sport or two. Thinking D II football at every school is an unrealistic dream.

Low hanging fruit indeed. And also designed to effect the current "system" with as little impact as possible while giving the impression of somthing major being done. There was a time over the last 10+ years when the measures being contemplated could have been quite effective in reforming the PASSHE. But sadly, no one was willing to make those changes in 2015. Instead the powers that be at the individual schools, at the PASSHE and in the legislature chose to ignore the problem and let it build, and build and build. Now it is the 11'th hour and the only thing that can be mustered are things that should have been done five years ago. And we still have people arguing against these changes while giving NO other suggestions for how to save the PASSHE.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong and these small steps will be enough to the entire system...OR maybe these are just the first steps of bigger and more meaningful changes in the not too distant future. But if this is the extent of the "massive reorganization" of the PASSHE, I'm fearful.

[Dirty Harry]

No doubt these measures are just the first step to get the ball rolling. But why single out Lock Haven? Sure, it's a small school but they aren't in worse shape than many of the others, including our own alma mater. Actually, LHU is in much better financial shape than most of the schools. They have a number of good programs beyond the PA program (which was started and run by a childhood friend of mine). Many of their athletics-related programs are really good, also Sports Administration, geology, education, to name a few off the top of my head. It's always been a place that developed teachers and coaches. They are actually prolific at producing coaches.

Perhaps more important, "the college" is an integral part of the community. Having been born and raised there I can say the town/gown relationship in LH is as good as any of the PASSHE schools and it's always been that way.

What they are doing now with LH/Mansfield makes perfect sense. In fact, if you go back to my old thread "The PASSHE - our alma maters" my primary thinking was to make these schools into engines for economic growth in PA. I suggested a partnership with the PA Dept, of Labor and that is very close to what the "integration" plans for. It's a different purpose, more geared towards workforce development. It's a good idea. LHU can serve the economic development needs of that region better than any other educational institution.

Also, it's such a key cog in the local economy. I can't imagine Lock Haven without the college. It's going to be there. And its presence will be greater over time than some of these other schools.

Maybe LHU gets bashed on here so much because it's a football forum and they stink in football. Not sure.

For the record, I'm always going to defend LHU. My grandmother went there, my godmother went there, my godfather donated into 8 figures to it over his lifetime and is one of few people ever awarded an honorary degree, my mother grew up across the street from it on Susquehanna Ave., my brother went there.

I hope it survives and I think it will.

Great Family Tradition! I know your proud. Yes, football is the problem. And, they had a chance to get it right this time and they didn't.

[iupgroundhog]

Once in my work life I remarked to a colleague that my resume should include professionalism in reducing costs. I will almost guarantee with certainty that the items mentioned in this thread will be way insufficient to meet the goals of preserving many of our universities. What is being talked about here is "low hanging fruit." It may even be irrelevant. Should these easy things be done? Sure. But real change demands hard, bold decisions and pain. Lock Haven for example should be trimmed to the bone and center on the Physicians Assistant program. Maybe there are related healthcare fields that could be added. Also, let's be clear that when the dust settles, athletics could be a sport or two. Thinking D II football at every school is an unrealistic dream.

No doubt these measures are just the first step to get the ball rolling. But why single out Lock Haven? Sure, it's a small school but they aren't in worse shape than many of the others, including our own alma mater. Actually, LHU is in much better financial shape than most of the schools. They have a number of good programs beyond the PA program (which was started and run by a childhood friend of mine). Many of their athletics-related programs are really good, also Sports Administration, geology, education, to name a few off the top of my head. It's always been a place that developed teachers and coaches. They are actually prolific at producing coaches.

Perhaps more important, "the college" is an integral part of the community. Having been born and raised there I can say the town/gown relationship in LH is as good as any of the PASSHE schools and it's always been that way.

What they are doing now with LH/Mansfield makes perfect sense. In fact, if you go back to my old thread "The PASSHE - our alma maters" my primary thinking was to make these schools into engines for economic growth in PA. I suggested a partnership with the PA Dept, of Labor and that is very close to what the "integration" plans for. It's a different purpose, more geared towards workforce development. It's a good idea. LHU can serve the economic development needs of that region better than any other educational institution.

Also, it's such a key cog in the local economy. I can't imagine Lock Haven without the college. It's going to be there. And its presence will be greater over time than some of these other schools.

Maybe LHU gets bashed on here so much because it's a football forum and they stink in football. Not sure.

For the record, I'm always going to defend LHU. My grandmother went there, my godmother went there, my godfather donated into 8 figures to it over his lifetime and is one of few people ever awarded an honorary degree, my mother grew up across the street from it on Susquehanna Ave., my brother went there.

I hope it survives and I think it will.

[BADinPA]

Once in my work life I remarked to a colleague that my resume should include professionalism in reducing costs. I will almost guarantee with certainty that the items mentioned in this thread will be way insufficient to meet the goals of preserving many of our universities. What is being talked about here is "low hanging fruit." It may even be irrelevant. Should these easy things be done? Sure. But real change demands hard, bold decisions and pain. Lock Haven for example should be trimmed to the bone and center on the Physicians Assistant program. Maybe there are related healthcare fields that could be added. Also, let's be clear that when the dust settles, athletics could be a sport or two. Thinking D II football at every school is an unrealistic dream.

[WarriorVoice]

I'd never knock Juco's and the programs they have, but for a lot of the trades, the clearest path is through an apprenticeship. My brother was a Steamfitter before he passed. He said that all a HS graduate had to do was show-up at the union hall and say you wanted to enter the Steamfitter apprenticeship and you were working the next day. Now granted, it's not easy work particularly the first couple of years, but you were working and making a decent wage (about 50K according to my brother). When you completed the program and became an actual Steamfitter, you'd make well above 100K per year without OT (which my brother said was plentiful).

I think as a society, we still look down our noses at people who work with their hands for a living...sort of like they are beneath us. I remember a politician recently said that he could teach anyone to be a farmer. All you have to do is put a seed in the ground, cover it with dirt, water it and corn pops up!!! I cringed at how condisending, elitist and stupid a person could be on one sentence. And he wanted to be president!

I don't look down my nose when anyone charges me $75 just to walk into my house. I usually say, "Damn I'm in the wrong profession..."

[Fightingscot82]

Edinboro still has to right-size its teaching faculty with the size of the school. The one-year notice means they tell them that their job won't exist 12 months from today. It gives the faculty member time to job search and possibly bid on similar jobs at other PASSHE campuses. Nobody is sitting around "with nothing to do" and getting paid. Well the poor guy getting out sourced doesn't get a yrs pay to do a job search for similar pay. Hit the Bricks

It's been in the works for a long time. Openly discussed even, so they've had time to explore the market. Usually in these cases the company who wins the bid offers jobs to those being displaced.