PASSHE - our alma maters

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I think we'll see credits rather than refunds. Very few students live on campus beyond the required period. The most vulnerable students (financially) are those who work retail and service jobs to make college payments but can't work now.

I also wonder if PASSHE could benefit from the drop in campus visits. They can't visit Kent State or Towson so maybe they'll choose proximity and familiarity by choosing a PASSHE school. This is causing a big disruption in the admissions world like nothing since probably WW2. Lots of admissions events canceled - both to recruit for fall 20 but also fall 21. I just read something this morning that top tier campuses are refusing to adjust deadlines. That puts pressure on families to act normally in abnormal times.

And the students renting from the slumlords are just out of luck. If you have campus housing you at least have a shot at a refund (pro-rated) or some credit toward next year (if there is a next year). Of course, those off-campus aren't forced to move out, either.

But, these actual 'college towns' are just taking an economic bashing. Already.

[Clydes 'N Rams]

Everybody might come to the realization that classrooms are superfluous.

Isn't that realization the ultimate "hope to God it never comes to this"truth!

[Fightingscot82]

Everybody might come to the realization that classrooms are superfluous.

Read an article this morning that said this could also be the big shift toward acceptance of work from home.

[SW_Mustang]

I'm just curious, but why does PA have so many colleges and universities? It seems like they are well beyond market saturation given their population. I get the bigger institutions can draw students in on a regional, national, or international basis - but even still, it seems like there is a bubble waiting to burst.

I didn't mean to butt-in on this thread, but I found this discussion interesting and I always wanted to ask that question.

[Bart]

Is this a state system or university decision? When students live in on-campus housing, are checks made out to the university or the state system? And some housing, although it appears to be on campus, is not university or system system owned, so the decision would lie with that independent entity.

Good question. When my contractor doesn't perform the work I paid for, the state files charges against him. Since these are state schools, I would guess the state will be involved to some extent, even if the housing is owned by the school's foundation or a private company on state land.

[Fightingscot82]

PA has always had a bunch of small private colleges.

The 1950s and 1960s happened. When PA converted its 14 state teachers colleges to state colleges, they were only also funding Penn State as the flagship and land grant. So PA was funding 15 schools with the state only having a say in the location of Penn State.

Pitt, Temple, and Lincoln were private schools on the brink of bankruptcy so PA provided a forever bailout in exchange for discounted tuition to PA students. That took it up to 18 schools with three research schools evenly distributed across the state.

Then in the 1960s and 1970s the community colleges developed. The state helped fund them too.

The kicker is that the state never bothered to consider how the expansion of outreach centers could without oversight morph into branch campuses or quasi-independent campuses. So now we have 14 state owned colleges, 4 state funded universities with 30 campuses, plus 13 or so state funded community colleges. And those private schools too. It's quite a mess. No strategy from day one.

[iupgroundhog]

I'm just curious, but why does PA have so many colleges and universities? It seems like they are well beyond market saturation given their population. I get the bigger institutions can draw students in on a regional, national, or international basis - but even still, it seems like there is a bubble waiting to burst.

The number of colleges/universities in a state has a very high correlation with the population of the state. Pennsylvania has the 5th highest population of all states and it has the 4th highest number of colleges/universities.

Almost all of these institutions were founded in the 1800's. Keep in mind that in the late 1800's Pennsylvania was the second most populous state behind New York.

So, it's population. There wasn't a problem until the last 10 years or so. In fact, from 2000-2010 the public schools were benefitting from skyrocketing costs at private schools.

So, that's why PA has a lot of colleges. Because it has a lot of people.

What's the problem now? Even though PA still ranks 5th in population it has been losing population.

The problem is the composition of the population. While PA is still big, it is also very old. Of all the large states PA has the oldest population.

Not coincidentally, PA has one of the lowest percentages of "under 18" population. So, this does not bode well for PA schools dependent on recruiting Pennsylvania students.

Not helping the situation is the fact that PA has cut funding for public higher education more than any other large state.

Also, most of these PA schools still field a football team.

[Ship69]

Everybody might come to the realization that classrooms are superfluous.

More and more studies of online learning come to the conclusion that it is not for everyone. We'd better hope classrooms don't become superfluous. And it would result in even less socialization for young people who are increasingly becoming separated by financial status, religion, political affiliations, and, yes, race once again.

[iupgroundhog]

More and more studies of online learning come to the conclusion that it is not for everyone. We'd better hope classrooms don't become superfluous. And it would result in even less socialization for young people who are increasingly becoming separated by financial status, religion, political affiliations, and, yes, race once again.

I agree.

At the same time it occurs to me that very few of us on the forum actually know each other. And some of us have been here for up to 20 years. Just thinking out loud.

[Fightingscot82]

More and more studies of online learning come to the conclusion that it is not for everyone. We'd better hope classrooms don't become superfluous. And it would result in even less socialization for young people who are increasingly becoming separated by financial status, religion, political affiliations, and, yes, race once again.

That's been my concern for many - those students who need some hands-on accommodations for disabilities now lack those. On a campus, one person can monitor and actively provide accommodations for several students concurrently. That can't be done virtually. The same goes for tutoring.

My concern for the schools are the real dollar losses of the services that will be refunded - mostly housing and meal plans. There's some minor cost savings when you consider the cancellations of programs and travel - but every school is going to be refunding millions and only exacerbates the eating away of financial reserves. Some PASSHE schools have next to no reserves after years of enrollment-driven deficits and construction debt paydowns. I do wonder how many students will blow that refund check rather than put it back toward what had been borrowed, a common pitfall of the student loan culture.

[ironmaniup]

That's been my concern for many - those students who need some hands-on accommodations for disabilities now lack those. On a campus, one person can monitor and actively provide accommodations for several students concurrently. That can't be done virtually. The same goes for tutoring.

My concern for the schools are the real dollar losses of the services that will be refunded - mostly housing and meal plans. There's some minor cost savings when you consider the cancellations of programs and travel - but every school is going to be refunding millions and only exacerbates the eating away of financial reserves. Some PASSHE schools have next to no reserves after years of enrollment-driven deficits and construction debt paydowns. I do wonder how many students will blow that refund check rather than put it back toward what had been borrowed, a common pitfall of the student loan culture.

It may be that the systems looks very different next fall after all of this shakes out. We have no idea if summer classes will run, Consider enrollments, How many students will decide to stay home, going on-line or with local CC - and then the next fall, who knows. I'd not be surprised if a couple schools are in the red, and will need a bailout. Some might have massively lower enrollments, which will lead to rapid and significant faculty downsizing. All depends on the actual time to get back to normal.

[iupgroundhog]

Related article.

https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...udents/608095/

The article mentions Harvard's $41 billion endowment. I'm thinking the government could takeover Harvard and they could give $50 million to 820 schools. I think I'll send my suggestion to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

[Ship69]

I agree.

At the same time it occurs to me that very few of us on the forum actually know each other. And some of us have been here for up to 20 years. Just thinking out loud.

I tried to connect with one of the Indiana guys for the BB championship game, but missed the mark. I hope we can set some things up when the PSAC returns to something approaching normal, whenever that might be.

[SW_Mustang]

More and more studies of online learning come to the conclusion that it is not for everyone. We'd better hope classrooms don't become superfluous. And it would result in even less socialization for young people who are increasingly becoming separated by financial status, religion, political affiliations, and, yes, race once again.

Online education has it's benefits, but it's certainly not a perfect "solution". My hope is that it's used as a tool for the machine and doesn't become the machine itself.

[SW_Mustang]

-snip-

The football thing makes sense, we have a couple colleges around here that are propped up by their athletic department.

That being said, it just seems like even with a higher population, they still have way too many institutions. I think that's a problem that we're going to face in Minnesota in the not-too-distant future.