The PSAC compared to other D2 conferences

[SecretlySavage]

Thought this could be a good topic of discussion as well as an opportunity to learn more. I was wondering about the quality of play, competition, and recruitment of the other D2 conferences. While making the picks last week I found it hard to judge between teams like Slip and Tiffin because they are both the clear and far away best teams in their conferences, so without knowing how good or competitive the other teams in that conference are I had no idea if Tiffin or Slip was the better #1 team. I ended up picking against Slip and K-Town and being happily wrong on both picks. It seems the at the PSAC is one of the better conferences, but what do you think of the other conferences? Is there a clearly best one? Worst one?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Thought this could be a good topic of discussion as well as an opportunity to learn more. I was wondering about the quality of play, competition, and recruitment of the other D2 conferences. While making the picks last week I found it hard to judge between teams like Slip and Tiffin because they are both the clear and far away best teams in their conferences, so without knowing how good or competitive the other teams in that conference are I had no idea if Tiffin or Slip was the better #1 team. I ended up picking against Slip and K-Town and being happily wrong on both picks. It seems the at the PSAC is one of the better conferences, but what do you think of the other conferences? Is there a clearly best one? Worst one?

Within SR1 (our region) the PSAC is usually the strongest top to bottom.

That said, SR1 is widely considered the (by far) weakest region in D2.

The SR1 rep in the Final Four has a history of being blown out and is often considered by the other regions of being the 'bye' week in the Final Four. There have been exceptions but not many.

There have been next to no legit national title contenders in SR1 for a long time.

The 1993 IUP team (prior to the IUP Rule) came within seconds of winning it.

Clarion made the final game in 1996 and Shepherd did several years ago. Both lost.

Geographically, we have way too many schools (way too many peeps fishing the same pond). Our talent gets too spread.

Add to it about half the teams in SR1 don't put much effort in to football.

The PSAC will win a basketball title before it ever wins a football title.

[Ram040506]

PSAC as a whole I'd say is middle of the pack in regards to national conference strength. Behind the GLIAC, GSC, MIAA, RMAC for sure... I'd feel comfortable saying the PSAC is a better conference than the MEC, GMAC, NE10, CIAA. The rest probably have 1 team that is better than anyone in the PSAC but the totality of the conferences I'd say are all comparable in a given year.

The NE10 I think is definitely the worst conference in D2. MIAA is probably the best top to bottom league, GSC might be 2nd.

So out of the 16 conferences, my guess is the PSAC is somewhere between 6th-11th in conference strength in any given year.

[EastStroud13]

Tier 1 - MIAA, GLIAC, GSC. Top-to-bottom, these are the three best conferences in D2. The GLIAC is more top-heavy than the others, but it earns this spot regardless.

Tier 2 - LSC, NSIC, RMAC. The SR4 trio, all are good conferences but they're a step behind the tier 1 conferences.

Tier 3 - SAC, GAC. These conferences get overshadowed by stronger conferences in their regions, but they are both solid throughout. Harding and L-R would paste any team from SR1.

Tier 4 - PSAC, GMAC. The meh middle. I'm probably higher on the GMAC than most, this was a down year for a lot of their programs and I expect them to be better most of the time.

Tier 5 - GLVC, MEC. Two opposite sides of the coin. The GLVC is carried by UIndy and Truman, and the rest of the conference is dreck. The MEC is competitive in the middle but usually only has one actually good team a year, and has some of the worst programs in the country at the bottom.

Tier 6 - NE-10, SIAC, CIAA. The poor NE-10 has been done dirty by FCS callups, and is a shell of what it once was. The SIAC and CIAA have to overcome more than the average conference, but realistically this is where they go.

[Fightingscot82]

Clarion only made it to the national semifinal losing in the final minutes to national champion Northern Colorado who had already declared moving to FCS. The legend of Chris Weibel and Malen Luke.

Was Winston Salem in SR1 when they made it in 2012? Bloomsburg made it in 2000. I believe that was with Irv Sigler. Maybe that's who you confused with Clarion.

The PSAC routinely makes the national semifinals but usually gets destroyed by bigger, deeper, and more resourced teams. Here are our national semifinalists:

1974: Slippery Rock lost 27-14
1981: Shippensburg lost 18-6
1985: Bloomsburg lost 34-0
1989: IUP lost 27-24
1990: IUP won 27-0
1991: IUP lost 27-20
1993: IUP won 21-6
1994: IUP lost 46-20
1996: Clarion lost 19-16
1998: Slippery Rock lost 47-21
1999: IUP lost 20-12
2000: Bloomsburg won 58-48
2004: West Chester lost 45-21
2005: East Stroudsburg lost 55-20
2006: Bloomsburg lost 33-3
2007: California lost 28-24
2008: California lost 45-7
2009: California lost 56-31
2013: West Chester lost 42-14
2017: IUP lost 27-17
2019: Slippery Rock lost 58-15
2021: Shepherd lost 55-7
2022: Shepherd lost 44-13

The PSAC is 3-20 in the national semifinal. I think that speaks for itself unfortunately.

[Ship69]

As these posters have indicated, the PSAC is very competitive within SR1 for football, but the region has been the weak sister nationally. Basketball is competitive outside the region, although it hasn't really resulted in national titles. West Liberty of the MEC was national runner-up last season, and IUP reached the semis not long ago. The depth of competition in PSAC basketball is usually very good, although the current season doesn't look like a top-end year.

[IUPNation]

Within SR1 (our region) the PSAC is usually the strongest top to bottom.

That said, SR1 is widely considered the (by far) weakest region in D2.

The SR1 rep in the Final Four has a history of being blown out and is often considered by the other regions of being the 'bye' week in the Final Four. There have been exceptions but not many.

There have been next to no legit national title contenders in SR1 for a long time.

The 1993 IUP team (prior to the IUP Rule) came within seconds of winning it.

Clarion made the final game in 1996 and Shepherd did several years ago. Both lost.

Geographically, we have way too many schools (way too many peeps fishing the same pond). Our talent gets too spread.

Add to it about half the teams in SR1 don't put much effort in to football.

The PSAC will win a basketball title before it ever wins a football title.

Clarion made a Final Four. Only IUP and Bloomsburg have made it to the finals from the Pee Sack. Shepherd did so out of the MEC. That Bloomsburg win over a then pretty high rated Cal-Davis in that Semi final on the road is one of the top 3 wins by a Pee Sack team ever. It was huge upset.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Clarion made a Final Four. Only IUP and Bloomsburg have made it to the finals from the Pee Sack. Shepherd did so out of the MEC. That Bloomsburg win over a then pretty high rated Cal-Davis in that Semi final on the road is one of the top 3 wins by a Pee Sack team ever. It was huge upset.

That's right. I always think Clarion lost in the final for some reason. That was a great team.

The younger people on here don't realize Clarion had some really good football and men's basketball teams in that era.

[Fightingscot82]

That's right. I always think Clarion lost in the final for some reason. That was a great team.

The younger people on here don't realize Clarion had some really good football and men's basketball teams in that era.

Yes. The old, old PSAC West was quite the division. Clarion, Edinboro, IUP, and Ship for the most part ripping each other apart until the emergence of Cal in 2005.

Boro-Clarion was a family rivalry between my dad and his brother Oldgoldeneagle2 until my uncle passed, so I watched a ton of Edinboro and Clarion games in what I consider the golden era of D2 football. Its a dogfight now to make it out of the PSAC unscathed but it was even more difficult back then. IUP dominated but they had to work for it.

[CUlater]

Yes. The old, old PSAC West was quite the division. Clarion, Edinboro, IUP, and Ship for the most part ripping each other apart until the emergence of Cal in 2005.

Boro-Clarion was a family rivalry between my dad and his brother Oldgoldeneagle2 until my uncle passed, so I watched a ton of Edinboro and Clarion games in what I consider the golden era of D2 football. Its a dogfight now to make it out of the PSAC unscathed but it was even more difficult back then. IUP dominated but they had to work for it.

Most don't remember at this point that Clarion went almost 30 years without a losing record. Some of those teams in the 90's were really good. In 96, Clarion beat a really good Ferris State team in the quarter final before taking on Northern Colorado at home. The final score was actually 19-18 and most probably wouldn't remember but Clarion lined up for a 19 yard field goal with 3 seconds left for the win. Kickers plant foot came out from under him on a muddy Memorial stadium and the ball never got off the ground. Northern went on to beat Carson-Newman for the NC the next week. I honestly believe that was the year that SR1 would have and should have gotten the National championship. Clarion was an absolute unit.

[ShepAlum]

Clarion only made it to the national semifinal losing in the final minutes to national champion Northern Colorado who had already declared moving to FCS. The legend of Chris Weibel and Malen Luke.

Was Winston Salem in SR1 when they made it in 2012? Bloomsburg made it in 2000. I believe that was with Irv Sigler. Maybe that's who you confused with Clarion.

The PSAC routinely makes the national semifinals but usually gets destroyed by bigger, deeper, and more resourced teams. Here are our national semifinalists:

1974: Slippery Rock lost 27-14
1981: Shippensburg lost 18-6
1985: Bloomsburg lost 34-0
1989: IUP lost 27-24
1990: IUP won 27-0
1991: IUP lost 27-20
1993: IUP won 21-6
1994: IUP lost 46-20
1996: Clarion lost 19-16
1998: Slippery Rock lost 47-21
1999: IUP lost 20-12
2000: Bloomsburg won 58-48
2004: West Chester lost 45-21
2005: East Stroudsburg lost 55-20
2006: Bloomsburg lost 33-3
2007: California lost 28-24
2008: California lost 45-7
2009: California lost 56-31
2013: West Chester lost 42-14
2017: IUP lost 27-17
2019: Slippery Rock lost 58-15
2021: Shepherd lost 55-7
2022: Shepherd lost 44-13

The PSAC is 3-20 in the national semifinal. I think that speaks for itself unfortunately.

You missed three semi-final appearances ….

2010 - Shepherd lost to Delta State, 17-29
2015 - Shepherd def. Grand Valley State, 34-32*
2016 - Shepherd lost to North Alabama, 13-23**

* Shepherd lost the national championship game against NW MO State, 7-34
** North Alabama became a D-1 program 1-2 years later

[Ram Tough]

You missed three semi-final appearances ….

2010 - Shepherd lost to Delta State, 17-29
2015 - Shepherd def. Grand Valley State, 34-32*
2016 - Shepherd lost to North Alabama, 13-23**

* Shepherd lost the national championship game against NW MO State, 7-34
** North Alabama became a D-1 program 1-2 years later

I think that he was going by PSAC members at that time. Shepherd was in the WVIAC and then MEC during those runs.

[ShepAlum]

I think that he was going by PSAC members at that time. Shepherd was in the WVIAC and then MEC during those runs.

That makes sense; disregard my previous post. Aside from the Grand Valley State game, it continues to illustrate the point being made--though I was feeling really good about that Delta State game in 2010 until that rain (monsoon) delay.

[Fightingscot82]

You missed three semi-final appearances ….

2010 - Shepherd lost to Delta State, 17-29
2015 - Shepherd def. Grand Valley State, 34-32*
2016 - Shepherd lost to North Alabama, 13-23**

* Shepherd lost the national championship game against NW MO State, 7-34
** North Alabama became a D-1 program 1-2 years later

Yes but Shep wasn't PSAC for these years.

[ctrabs74]

Clarion only made it to the national semifinal losing in the final minutes to national champion Northern Colorado who had already declared moving to FCS. The legend of Chris Weibel and Malen Luke.

Was Winston Salem in SR1 when they made it in 2012? Bloomsburg made it in 2000. I believe that was with Irv Sigler. Maybe that's who you confused with Clarion.

Winston-Salem State and the CIAA were part of SR1 when the Rams had their run in 2011 and 2012, defeating New Haven to win the region in 2011 (and Cal in the round prior) before falling to Wayne State (Mich.) in the semifinals and defeating IUP in 2012 on their way to a national title game appearance where they lost to Valdosta State.