OT: PIAA Wrestling public vs. private

[EyeoftheHawk]

Half of the field is set for the PIAA state basketball championship games after last night and after tonight we’ll know the full field of teams. I’ll post those tomorrow and then we can commence arguing about why the private all star teams shouldn’t be in this tournament. Spoiler alert: Imani Christian Academy, which competes in Class A (cough, cough), is in the finals. Indiana County has a representative in girls Class 2A as Marion Center out of the Heritage Conference punched their ticked last night. The reward is playing last year’s “state champion” the Kennedy Catholic elite all-stars that I could coach to a title.

[EyeoftheHawk]

The high school basketball state championship games are set and more than half the field is made up of private schools that are not school “districts” at all. All but one championship game will feature a private all start team with players that can essentially come from anywhere. I don’t want to hear the argument that there can’t be a separate classification for private schools. Either throw them all in 6A or give them their own classification. If one high school kid mysteriously moves into a public school district the PIAA loses its $hit, but it’s okay to let teams made up of 100% transfers compete with public schools in the championships. The hypocrisy is disgusting. Anyway, here are the matchups with all star travel teams in italics:


Boys A - Berlin Brothersvalley vs Imani Christian Academy (Joke of the century that Imani Christian is playing in A)

Girls A - Mountain View vs Bishop Guilfoyle


Boys 2A - Aliquippa vs Holy Cross

Girls 2A - Marion Center vs Kennedy Catholic (Kennedy won the state last year and returns almost everyone. Another private all-star team that has no business in this game)


Boys 3A - Franklin vs Devon Prep

Girls 3A - Westmont Hilltop vs Lancaster Catholic


Boys 4A - Archbishop Carroll vs Lincoln Park

Girls 4A - Blackhawk vs Scranton Prep


Boys 5A - Imhotep Charter vs Franklin Regional (Imhotep would probably be competitive in the PSAC)

Girls 5A - Archbishop Wood vs Cathedral Prep


Boys 6A - Parkland vs Central York

Girls 6A - Cardinal O’Hara vs Spring-Ford

[IUPNation]

So let Public schools recruit,

[EyeoftheHawk]

So let Public schools recruit,

That’s your argument? Goodness.

[IUPNation]

That’s your argument? Goodness.

I don’t like the hostile attitudes towards private school athletes like they did something wrong so they must be segregated. Again if it sounds like people being treated differently for something they can’t control. Ive been on the receiving end of that more times than I care to remember. I don’t like it.

Also I went to a Catholic high school that got destroyed in foosball and sometimes basketball by the local public high school Norristown Area High School. We did not have the facilities or the coaches at least in foosball and the best athletes mostly went to Norristown. So I don’t fully agree with the false narrative that every private school has the advantage over all of the poor downtrodden public schools.

Yinz need to frame the argument better and come up with better solutions other than segregation because then there are no true state champions. I keep saying private schools should have a different scale for classification so that they play higher than their enrollment number suggest. If Aliquiipa can play in a higher classification based on transfer so can private schools the same size. I don’t agree with having separate tournaments. I want one state champion per classification.

[EyeoftheHawk]

I don’t like the hostile attitudes towards private school athletes like they did something wrong so they must be segregated. Again if it sounds like people being treated differently for something they can’t control. Ive been on the receiving end of that more times than I care to remember. I don’t like it.

Also I went to a Catholic high school that got destroyed in foosball and sometimes basketball by the local public high school Norristown Area High School. We did not have the facilities or the coaches at least in foosball and the best athletes mostly went to Norristown. So I don’t fully agree with the false narrative that every private school has the advantage over all of the poor downtrodden public schools.

Yinz need to frame the argument better and come up with better solutions other than segregation because then there are no true state champions. I keep saying private schools should have a different scale for classification so that they play higher than their enrollment number suggest. If Aliquiipa can play in a higher classification based on transfer so can private schools the same size. I don’t agree with having separate tournaments. I want one state champion per classification.

I think there’s a common sense solution out there. If I were king I’d simply have a separate championship for private and public schools, but still let them compete during the regular season. I don’t have anything against private schools in general and my son goes to one, LOL. My mother went to a Catholic school as you did. I think in many cases they offer better opportunities. There are some really good public schools but also many that are awful academically. I believe people should have choices.

My only argument is for an even playing field for athletics. I recognize not all private schools game the system and some are annually poor in athletics. However, my head fundraiser used to raise money for a prominent private school I won’t name and she shared with me what goes on behind closed doors when it comes to bringing in particular “student” athletes. That doesn’t help my demeanor on this subject.

[IUPNation]

I think there’s a common sense solution out there. If I were king I’d simply have a separate championship for private and public schools, but still let them compete during the regular season. I don’t have anything against private schools in general and my son goes to one, LOL. My mother went to a Catholic school as you did. I think in many cases they offer better opportunities. There are some really good public schools but also many that are awful academically. I believe people should have choices.

My only argument is for an even playing field for athletics. I recognize not all private schools game the system and some are annually poor in athletics. However, my head fundraiser used to raise money for a prominent private school I won’t name and she shared with me what goes on behind closed doors when it comes to bringing in particular “student” athletes. That doesn’t help my demeanor on this subject.

But you have plenty of affluent public districts that just attract families and in turn have a good pick of the litter for athletes.

I wonder how much of a monster it would be if the Downingtown School District didn't build East. Both East and West excel at almost everything a. If it was still just one school, they would be able to hold court with any private school. Famlies flock into this district because of high reputation of the district and the STEM Academy is either the #1 or #2 public school in the Commonwealth.

There isn't a level playing field even if you group all of the publics together. Rich suburban districts are always going to dominate...

[EyeoftheHawk]

But you have plenty of affluent public districts that just attract families and in turn have a good pick of the litter for athletes.

I wonder how much of a monster it would be if the Downingtown School District didn't build East. Both East and West excel at almost everything a. If it was still just one school, they would be able to hold court with any private school. Famlies flock into this district because of high reputation of the district and the STEM Academy is either the #1 or #2 public school in the Commonwealth.

There isn't a level playing field even if you group all of the publics together. Rich suburban districts are always going to dominate...

If there’s an affluent district attracting more people their classification goes up and they compete against similarly sized districts. The privates have no district boundary. And while there may be a few cases of the example you cite, most must be on your side of the state because that’s really not the case here.

There’s not going to be a perfect system or totally level playing field, but that’s no reason to not fix the obvious problem.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

On the basketball side of this board, there was some outrage that the NCAA made the D2 Regionals pay-per-view. For instance, if you wanted the top package (men's and women's) for just the Atlantic Region (our teams) the cost was $49.95. Or, you could buy (1) game for about $11, or, say, men's only, for $30. This rubbed many the wrong way.


Of note, the local station here in Indiana (WCCS) broadcasts high school games year-round (free viewing). They were rejected, however, to broadcast Marion Center's run through the PIAA Tournament. It seems the PIAA has granted exclusive broadcast rights to a streaming (pay-per-view) service.

[EastStroud13]

If there’s an affluent district attracting more people their classification goes up and they compete against similarly sized districts. The privates have no district boundary. And while there may be a few cases of the example you cite, most must be on your side of the state because that’s really not the case here.

There’s not going to be a perfect system or totally level playing field, but that’s no reason to not fix the obvious problem.

Exactly. The schools Nation refers to; the likes of the Downingtowns, North Penn, Central Bucks, Parkland, etc; are all in 6A already. They are the ones best-equipped to match the all-star private school teams. Meanwhile, in the smallest classes, public schools have no hope of competing against private schools that can just collect talent.

It's not fair to a small, rural school that they might have to compete with all-star teams within their own class. It just isn't.

[IUPNation]

Exactly. The schools Nation refers to; the likes of the Downingtowns, North Penn, Central Bucks, Parkland, etc; are all in 6A already. They are the ones best-equipped to match the all-star private school teams. Meanwhile, in the smallest classes, public schools have no hope of competing against private schools that can just collect talent.

It's not fair to a small, rural school that they might have to compete with all-star teams within their own class. It just isn't.

But rural schools on the other hand don’t deserve special treatment either…

Smaller private schools probably should be in higher classifications

[EyeoftheHawk]

But rural schools on the other hand don’t deserve special treatment either…

Smaller private schools probably should be in higher classifications

Special treatment? You can’t be serious. What in the hell would be special treatment? Playing schools that deal with the same challenges and are of a similar size and recruiting rules? That’s not special treatment.

Marion Center came within a whisker of beating Kennedy Catholic that has a roster full of girls from all over the place, including out of state (Cleveland). They are the defending champions and steamrolled everyone they played in the state playoffs including Bishop McCort and Greensburg Central Catholic. They haven’t lost to a public school in more than two years and most of their wins are by 30 and sometimes way more. They showed up with a half dozen coaches, a bunch of managers, etc. while MC showed up with the girls that live in the district and the two coaches they can afford. Despite all that, the Stingers very likely would be holding the state championship trophy if it weren’t for two awful calls in the last 30 seconds that turned a one point win into a two point loss with 5 seconds left. This is why I advocate for public and private champions because I don’t want to take anything away from Kennedy, but this was a completely unfair fight from the opening tip. Both teams are state champions in their respective classifications, public and private.

Following that game, Berlin-Brothersvalley (public) predictably got destroyed by Imani Christian by 27 points. Imani Christian will probably send their starting five to D1 schools and NONE of them are what you could reasonably describe as local. For those keeping track at home, that’s two private schools with state championships in two games in Hershey.

If these public and private teams want to play an exhibition game after the season for the fun of it or for the sake of bragging rights, fine. Awarding championship trophies to all star teams that don’t even have a school “district” and are playing under different rules is ridiculous.

[iupgroundhog]

But rural schools on the other hand don’t deserve special treatment either…

Smaller private schools probably should be in higher classifications

So, being treated unfairly is special treatment?

[EyeoftheHawk]

Lancaster Catholic just defeated Westmont Hilltop in girls 3A making it three championships for private schools over public schools today in three games. The fourth game in boys 4A features two private schools in Archbishop Carroll and Lincoln Park. At the end of the day four championships will be decided and they are all going to private schools. In other words, a clean sweep. Yeah…there’s no problem here. SMH

Public schools are guaranteed at least one win when it’s all said and done because both boys teams in 6A are public.

[IUPNation]

Special treatment? You can’t be serious. What in the hell would be special treatment? Playing schools that deal with the same challenges and are of a similar size and recruiting rules? That’s not special treatment.

I'm dead serious.

I just don't want it changed so that it goes the other way and once again Rural PA gets preferential treatment. Because of politics, I am sick and tired of Rural PA's bull****.

Marion Center came within a whisker of beating Kennedy Catholic that has a roster full of girls from all over the place, including out of state (Cleveland). They are the defending champions and steamrolled everyone they played in the state playoffs including Bishop McCort and Greensburg Central Catholic. They haven’t lost to a public school in more than two years and most of their wins are by 30 and sometimes way more. They showed up with a half dozen coaches, a bunch of managers, etc. while MC showed up with the girls that live in the district and the two coaches they can afford. Despite all that, the Stingers very likely would be holding the state championship trophy if it weren’t for two awful calls in the last 30 seconds that turned a one point win into a two point loss with 5 seconds left. This is why I advocate for public and private champions because I don’t want to take anything away from Kennedy, but this was a completely unfair fight from the opening tip. Both teams are state champions in their respective classifications, public and private.

So they held their own and lost by 2 points. I fail to see how they got out gunned.

Following that game, Berlin-Brothersvalley (public) predictably got destroyed by Imani Christian by 27 points. Imani Christian will probably send their starting five to D1 schools and NONE of them are what you could reasonably describe as local. For those keeping track at home, that’s two private schools with state championships in two games in Hershey.

If these public and private teams want to play an exhibition game after the season for the fun of it or for the sake of bragging rights, fine. Awarding championship trophies to all star teams that don’t even have a school “district” and are playing under different rules is ridiculous.

So how would you crown a champion? If there is a 2A Public champion and a 2A Private Champion...who is the better team?

Somebody wants to be the only 2A champion. An exhibition for "bragging rights" isn't going to settle anything.

Maybe Imani Fake Christian Academy should have been in say the 4A bracket.

That is your solution. Private schools get classified by a different set of criteria and if they are too dominate in a classification, they gots to move up. Just like they did it to Aliquippa.

That would probably put most of your better private schools in 4, 5 and 6A.