"HURST OUT OF PSAC?

[IUPNation]

You might be onto something. Gannon and Mercyhurst have a very similar profile. Gannon's athletic tradition is more known but Mercyhurst is seen as the stuffier of the two. Think of Gannon as the Duquesne of Erie, distilled for scale, and Mercyhurst is maybe St. Vincent, just a couple miles away though.

But think about that. Two middling private Catholic schools in the same struggling city with lots of shared characteristics. Gannon has their "downtown" presence and their thriving health campus in Florida. What does Mercyhurst have? Well, now they have D1 sports. The only D1 school between St. Bonaventure and Cleveland State - and that says all you need to know. Some schools are very good at taking advantage of Joe Public having NO CLUE what makes a school D1 vs D2 vs D3. Most think it’s are about being "good" enough or size. Schools like Robert Morris are able to sell that as a hallmark of their experience. I assume Mercyhurst will do the same. Even though nobody cares any more about Stonehill than they did for Shippesnburg.

It’s only a matter of time before The Lake Show winds up like Fake Notre Dame and Cabrini. At least the Cabrini campus was valuable real estate It will be Villanova’s Law School.

[ctrabs74]

West Florida moviing up was a guarentee when they bought their first jock strap in 2015. Location, abundance of local talent and large enrollment. I would think GV is tied into the Michigan state school system like most PSAC schools which hinders their movement up. Both would be immediate top 15 FCS programs for sure. GV would git nicely into the LeaguecYSU is in.

Unlike Pennsylvania, Michigan doesn't have a "unified" state system of higher education in that each state-owned university (UM, MSU, Grand Valley, Ferris, the "directional Michigan" schools, etc.) are independent of each other. What Grand Valley does or doesn't do has nothing to do with any decisions at Ferris, Lake Superior, Saginaw Valley, Wayne State, Michigan Tech, etc.

[Finchwidget]

Unlike Pennsylvania, Michigan doesn't have a "unified" state system of higher education in that each state-owned university (UM, MSU, Grand Valley, Ferris, the "directional Michigan" schools, etc.) are independent of each other. What Grand Valley does or doesn't do has nothing to do with any decisions at Ferris, Lake Superior, Saginaw Valley, Wayne State, Michigan Tech, etc.

A bit tangential, but the University of Michigan is actually a system-- in addition to the main campus in Ann Arbor, there's also UM-Dearborn, who competes in the NAIA, and UM-Flint, which doesn't have athletics. Other than that though, spot on.

[WarriorVoice]

A commissioner didn't know a school in his conference was leaving.

That makes him a bigger tool than you, which says a lot.

You have no proof of that. Who's the tool?

[Mikefln]

It’s only a matter of time before The Lake Show winds up like Fake Notre Dame and Cabrini. At least the Cabrini campus was valuable real estate It will be Villanova’s Law School.

According to 2024 US News for rankings and Wikipedia for endowment and enrollment (they cite the source for that information):

Duquesne: 151 in National University’s; $472.1 million endowment; 6,074 undergrads; $77,708 per undergrad
Gannon: 260 in National University’s; $83.5 million endowment; 3,165 undergrads; $26,382 per undergrad
Mercyhurst: 54 Regional University’s North; $31.8 million endowment; 2,759 undergrads; $11,526 per undergrad* this is the oldest data set as it is from 2013. All others were from 2019 or more recent.
St. Vincent: 124 in National Liberal Art's College's; $113 million endowment; 1,375 undergrads; $82,182 per undergrad
St Francis: 30 Regional University’s North; $52 million endowment; 1,691 undergrads; $30,751 per undergrad


Slippery Rock: 50 Regional University’s North; $16.5 million endowment; 6,815 undergrads; $2,421 per undergrad ** They did not list the source so not sure how accurate or how up to date this info is.
IUP: 320 in National University's; $60.6 million endowment; 9,308 undergrads; $6,510 per undergrad
Millersville: 116 Regional University’s North; $43.9 million endowment; 6,500 undergrads; $6,754 per undergrad
Shippensburg: 104 Regional University’s North; $36.9 million endowment; 6,942 undergrads; $5,315 per undergrad
West Chester: 209 in National University's; $47.2 million endowment; 14,712 undergrads; $3,208 per undergrad


Looking at this data, while I admit Mercyhurst data (from 11 years ago, have to assume it is better now) does not paint a rosy picture, I would be more worried about IUP and it fellow PHSSE schools as their data is worse.

[iupgroundhog]

According to 2024 US News for rankings and Wikipedia for endowment and enrollment (they cite the source for that information):

Duquesne: 151 in National University’s; $472.1 million endowment; 6,074 undergrads; $77,708 per undergrad
Gannon: 260 in National University’s; $83.5 million endowment; 3,165 undergrads; $26,382 per undergrad
Mercyhurst: 54 Regional University’s North; $31.8 million endowment; 2,759 undergrads; $11,526 per undergrad* this is the oldest data set as it is from 2013. All others were from 2019 or more recent.
St. Vincent: 124 in National Liberal Art's College's; $113 million endowment; 1,375 undergrads; $82,182 per undergrad
St Francis: 30 Regional University’s North; $52 million endowment; 1,691 undergrads; $30,751 per undergrad


Slippery Rock: 50 Regional University’s North; $16.5 million endowment; 6,815 undergrads; $2,421 per undergrad ** They did not list the source so not sure how accurate or how up to date this info is.
IUP: 320 in National University's; $60.6 million endowment; 9,308 undergrads; $6,510 per undergrad
Millersville: 116 Regional University’s North; $43.9 million endowment; 6,500 undergrads; $6,754 per undergrad
Shippensburg: 104 Regional University’s North; $36.9 million endowment; 6,942 undergrads; $5,315 per undergrad
West Chester: 209 in National University's; $47.2 million endowment; 14,712 undergrads; $3,208 per undergrad


Looking at this data, while I admit Mercyhurst data (from 11 years ago, have to assume it is better now) does not paint a rosy picture, I would be more worried about IUP and it fellow PHSSE schools as their data is worse.

Thanks for that. Of course, there are a lot of angles involved and you've cited at least one of them here. Make no mistake, IUP'ers are concerned, if not worried. IUP and the PASSHE situation is quite a bit different than Mercyhurst's in many ways, though.

[Mikefln]

Thanks for that. Of course, there are a lot of angles involved and you've cited at least one of them here. Make no mistake, IUP'ers are concerned, if not worried. IUP and the PASSHE situation is quite a bit different than Mercyhurst's in many ways, though.

Not saying there are no differences. There are as Mercyhurst does not get the funding from the state that PASSHE institutions do. I am just pointing out that maybe this move to D1 works for Hurst maybe it doesn't. But they are not in dire straits like nation is implying.

[Fightingscot82]

According to 2024 US News for rankings and Wikipedia for endowment and enrollment (they cite the source for that information):

Duquesne: 151 in National University’s; $472.1 million endowment; 6,074 undergrads; $77,708 per undergrad
Gannon: 260 in National University’s; $83.5 million endowment; 3,165 undergrads; $26,382 per undergrad
Mercyhurst: 54 Regional University’s North; $31.8 million endowment; 2,759 undergrads; $11,526 per undergrad* this is the oldest data set as it is from 2013. All others were from 2019 or more recent.
St. Vincent: 124 in National Liberal Art's College's; $113 million endowment; 1,375 undergrads; $82,182 per undergrad
St Francis: 30 Regional University’s North; $52 million endowment; 1,691 undergrads; $30,751 per undergrad


Slippery Rock: 50 Regional University’s North; $16.5 million endowment; 6,815 undergrads; $2,421 per undergrad ** They did not list the source so not sure how accurate or how up to date this info is.
IUP: 320 in National University's; $60.6 million endowment; 9,308 undergrads; $6,510 per undergrad
Millersville: 116 Regional University’s North; $43.9 million endowment; 6,500 undergrads; $6,754 per undergrad
Shippensburg: 104 Regional University’s North; $36.9 million endowment; 6,942 undergrads; $5,315 per undergrad
West Chester: 209 in National University's; $47.2 million endowment; 14,712 undergrads; $3,208 per undergrad


Looking at this data, while I admit Mercyhurst data (from 11 years ago, have to assume it is better now) does not paint a rosy picture, I would be more worried about IUP and it fellow PHSSE schools as their data is worse.

Minor point of contention - Slippery Rock's endowment is $46.5 million. Source: https://www.sru.edu/news/092022a

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Minor point of contention - Slippery Rock's endowment is $46.5 million. Source: https://www.sru.edu/news/092022a

How are the triads working? One piggy bank?

[Mikefln]

Minor point of contention - Slippery Rock's endowment is $46.5 million. Source: https://www.sru.edu/news/092022a

Thank you. As I stated, that was the only one they did not cite the source for, or provide any information on where and when that information came from. All the other schools had citations to reputable sources and 2019 was the oldest outside of Mercyhurst at 2013.

With this new information that makes:

$46.5 million endowment; 6,815 undergrads; $6,823 per undergrad

[WarriorVoice]

Saw this posted online:

Some rumblings (Rumors) thru D2 Football as of this morning:

West Florida is considering going D1 & hoping the ASUN

New Haven is considering going D1 & join the NEC - this could happen this season

Bentley is the other school rumored to join the NEC - but the NEC will only take one program - them or New Haven - depending on what school wants to make the jump

UINDY was going to join the OVC (D1) but their board never got to vote on making the jump - some feel matter of time before they are D1

Grand Valley State & VSU are rumored to be going to the OVC with UINDY both have said their plans are to go D1

West Georgia has made the jump and will be D1 this season

Lots of talks going on

Lots of talks. Let me know when something actually happens...

[iupgroundhog]

Not saying there are no differences. There are as Mercyhurst does not get the funding from the state that PASSHE institutions do. I am just pointing out that maybe this works for Hurst maybe it doesn't. But they are not in dire straits like nation is implying.

I guess the definition of "works" isn't totally clear. I say if Hurst can divert the extra money to athletics, they should go for it. I think the question is whether their program will be competitive on that level. They weren't real competitive in the PSAC.

[Mikefln]

How are the triads working? One piggy bank?

I would like to know this too. That is one of the reasons why I did not list any of them as I am unsure how they are operating and didn't want to be wrong as I did not have time to look it up and dig into it too much right now.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I guess the definition of "works" isn't totally clear. I say if Hurst can divert the extra money to athletics, they should go for it. I think the question is whether their program will be competitive on that level. They weren't real competitive in the PSAC.

Question is how much (if any) ROI comes with the move?

As we know the NEC isn't exactly the SEC. It's not like ticket revenue is going to change at all (it may get worse). Add in all the travel increases. This just seems like a reach on so many levels.

[Mikefln]

I guess the definition of "works" isn't totally clear. I say if Hurst can divert the extra money to athletics, they should go for it. I think the question is whether their program will be competitive on that level. They weren't real competitive in the PSAC.

You are correct in defining "works". I was talking about whether the move to D1 helped the image of the school to catapult them to a more "prestigious class" and more financial security. Right now they are viewed as a Regional University, if this move propels them to be viewed as a National University ranked in the 200's that would be a win for them. With that, a bump in enrollment should follow. With that, a little more financial security should arise. I can tell you well looking at their web page trying to locate the information before I went the Wikipedia route, they are pushing to raise their endowment to over $100 million. If they can achieve that, I would say it "worked".

Now if you are asking strictly from an athleteic perspective if the move will work. Time will tell, but they have a long road ahead of them as you stated they are a middle-of-the-pack program in most sports and I do not see them improving enough to take on Duquesne who is head and shoulders better in football, and I am not sure who is good in the NEC in bball. Not sure where their wrestling program ends up which in my opinion is their strongest man's sport year in/ year out.

You might even have a different way of defining "it works". I think we can all agree they have their work cut out for them no matter how you define it. I do wish them luck and success.