PIAA Playoffs

[IUPNation]

Just separate the public boundary schools from the non-public schools. That's a lot easier. And money is not necessarily an indicator of success in high school sports, especially among public schools.

So back to not having true state champions before Philly Public and Catholic schools entered the conversation? Everyone gets a trophy?

That will lead to weiner wagging contests over who really is the best..like before we had foosball playoffs and it was automatically assumed the WPIAL champions were the best in the system…

[shipfbfan1]

So back to not having true state champions before Philly Public and Catholic schools entered the conversation? Everyone gets a trophy?

That will lead to weiner wagging contests over who really is the best..like before we had foosball playoffs and it was automatically assumed the WPIAL champions were the best in the system…

It's amazing how many folks are up in arms over the Philly schools winning titles. Before we entered the tournament it was, they aren't real champions because they aren't in the PIAA. Then once we enter and win, we are labeled as cheaters and make them play in a different classification.

[IUPNation]

It's amazing how many folks are up in arms over the Philly schools winning titles. Before we entered the tournament it was, they aren't real champions because they aren't in the PIAA. Then once we enter and win, we are labeled as cheaters and make them play in a different classification.

They want the rich public schools to go back to dominating.

First of all...there are too many tiny public school districts in Western PA. It is not the fault of a Catholic School that the natives won't see the light and accept consolidation to create bigger schools.

Then...the metrics to measure each school's classification need to be updated for today. Enrollment is not how to go about it. A small Catholic school that can bring in students from a large area can go toe to toe with big rich schools like Mt. Lebanon.

5A/6A - Privates with robust athletic departments and the big rich public schools.

1A through 4A - Publics that aren't rich enough to spend on athletics and the smaller privates that do not openly recruit for sports.

People think every Philadelphia Catholic League School is out there recruiting. They are not.....St. Joe's and LaSalle are private and have the cash...they can recruit. Roman Catholic has a wealthy alumni to prop them up. It's still owned by the diocese. The rest? Certainly are not out there recruiting out of state.....

The diocese schools used to only be able to admit students from feeder parishes assigned to that high school. That went away when enrollments were dropping so fast and they were closing schools. Even so...nobody is going that far to attend the rest of them. Archbishop Wood is probably cleaning up in Bucks and nobody is going to Conwell-Egan. Delco is split between Carroll, Bonner and O'hara

Downingtown East and West thrive in spite of Bishop Shanahan being in the same area. Kids are not forsaking North Penn to go to Lansdale Catholic.

If they want separation, then private schools should not play boundary schools during the regular season. It they can't compete in the post season there is no way they should play during the regular season.

[Fightingscot82]

I do think "boundary" vs "non-boundary" is a valid consideration. Those same boundaries often coincide with tax base, community economic engagement, household income, and population projections. There are a handful of football powerhouse outliers: Aliquippa, Clairton, Farrell, etc. 1A and 2A are most often dominated by private schools. Small is a selling point for private schools - but some schools are small and isolated and their values in those categories listed above pale in comparison to the small privates. Those rural PIAA districts full of small, isolated districts with modest budgets and modest household incomes just get run over by private schools and football factory communities. You know, the communities where the nearest Target is 90+ minutes away. The lone exception I can think of holding their own is D9's Redbank Valley (New Bethlehem) who usually makes the 1A semifinals.

Maybe athletics spending would be a better determination of classification? I guess then some schools would have to get uncomfortable with how much they spend on athletics out in the public sphere beyond the local school board. I'd love to see some of those WPIAL athletic budgets and compare them to the PSAC.

[jrshooter]

So back to not having true state champions before Philly Public and Catholic schools entered the conversation? Everyone gets a trophy?

That will lead to weiner wagging contests over who really is the best..like before we had foosball playoffs and it was automatically assumed the WPIAL champions were the best in the system…

I've been saying that for a while now and generally have gotten vilified for it.

Well, that and the fact that at some point, the onus is on the losing team to get better. They really don't like hearing that.

[EastStroud13]

It's amazing how many folks are up in arms over the Philly schools winning titles. Before we entered the tournament it was, they aren't real champions because they aren't in the PIAA. Then once we enter and win, we are labeled as cheaters and make them play in a different classification.

It's not just Philly schools. Unless Sewickley and Kennedy Catholic moved their campuses and I missed it.

[Ship69]

It's amazing how many folks are up in arms over the Philly schools winning titles. Before we entered the tournament it was, they aren't real champions because they aren't in the PIAA. Then once we enter and win, we are labeled as cheaters and make them play in a different classification.

It's not a matter of cheating. It's a matter of playing by the same set of rules. You're really telling me the average public school is recruiting like the private schools? No way in hell.

[Ship69]

I've been saying that for a while now and generally have gotten vilified for it.

Well, that and the fact that at some point, the onus is on the losing team to get better. They really don't like hearing that.

So you're really saying the answer to somebody like Mechanicsburg beating McDevitt is "get better?" Great, when Mechanicsburg can cross the river to recruit kids I'll go along with that.

[Ship69]

They want the rich public schools to go back to dominating.

First of all...there are too many tiny public school districts in Western PA. It is not the fault of a Catholic School that the natives won't see the light and accept consolidation to create bigger schools.

Then...the metrics to measure each school's classification need to be updated for today. Enrollment is not how to go about it. A small Catholic school that can bring in students from a large area can go toe to toe with big rich schools like Mt. Lebanon.

5A/6A - Privates with robust athletic departments and the big rich public schools.

1A through 4A - Publics that aren't rich enough to spend on athletics and the smaller privates that do not openly recruit for sports.

People think every Philadelphia Catholic League School is out there recruiting. They are not.....St. Joe's and LaSalle are private and have the cash...they can recruit. Roman Catholic has a wealthy alumni to prop them up. It's still owned by the diocese. The rest? Certainly are not out there recruiting out of state.....

The diocese schools used to only be able to admit students from feeder parishes assigned to that high school. That went away when enrollments were dropping so fast and they were closing schools. Even so...nobody is going that far to attend the rest of them. Archbishop Wood is probably cleaning up in Bucks and nobody is going to Conwell-Egan. Delco is split between Carroll, Bonner and O'hara

Downingtown East and West thrive in spite of Bishop Shanahan being in the same area. Kids are not forsaking North Penn to go to Lansdale Catholic.

If they want separation, then private schools should not play boundary schools during the regular season. It they can't compete in the post season there is no way they should play during the regular season.

Harrisburg, not a rich school district, has done far better in football in recent years than most of the districts you'd call "rich" in our area. I'm fine with St. Joe's, LaSalle, and Roman recruiting. Just let them play against other schools who do the same. If you want some sort of closure for the thing, let the winners of the public playoff play the winner of the private one.

[Fightingscot82]

Harrisburg, not a rich school district, has done far better in football in recent years than most of the districts you'd call "rich" in our area. I'm fine with St. Joe's, LaSalle, and Roman recruiting. Just let them play against other schools who do the same. If you want some sort of closure for the thing, let the winners of the public playoff play the winner of the private one.

Right. At the very least, they shouldn't be allowed to play for a PIAA title with out of state students. My wife's cousin had sons win a state lacrosse title for a school in Delaware while living in Delaware County, PA

[IUPNation]

It's not just Philly schools. Unless Sewickley and Kennedy Catholic moved their campuses and I missed it.

But privates in other parts of PA were in the PIAA when boundary schools dominated…they just found a way to compete.

Now a new way to measure for classifications needs to be made for both kinds of schools…

[IUPNation]

Harrisburg, not a rich school district, has done far better in football in recent years than most of the districts you'd call "rich" in our area. I'm fine with St. Joe's, LaSalle, and Roman recruiting. Just let them play against other schools who do the same. If you want some sort of closure for the thing, let the winners of the public playoff play the winner of the private one.

Harrisburg is also a populated area that has more kids in its footprint. Reading High doesn’t get pushed around either.

It’s not like these privates are unbeatable . The smaller ones just should be in higher classifications.

Again..my Catholic High school got mauled every year by Norristown High in foosball. Their coach at the time recruited the best kids in the CYO foosball league for the parishes to steer them away from Kenrick to Norristown. It’s why I don’t want to hear the crying…

[IUPNation]

Right. At the very least, they shouldn't be allowed to play for a PIAA title with out of state students. My wife's cousin had sons win a state lacrosse title for a school in Delaware while living in Delaware County, PA

I can imagine there aren’t many schools in Delaware that are below the canal that offer lacrosse…that’s a New Castle County title no doubt.

[Fightingscot82]

I can imagine there aren’t many schools in Delaware that are below the canal that offer lacrosse…that’s a New Castle County title no doubt.

Private school in Wilmington.

[jrshooter]

So you're really saying the answer to somebody like Mechanicsburg beating McDevitt is "get better?" Great, when Mechanicsburg can cross the river to recruit kids I'll go along with that.

That is exactly what I'm saying, and I don't think we're ever going to agree on this issue ...