Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

[OhioDadGVSON]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

I am not disagreeing with you on your thoughts I am merely stating the way it is at GVSU and most GLIAC schools for that matter. GVSU takes equality in sports very seriously. You dont have to like it but you best learn to understand it! Thurston and I have been Irwin club members for years and season ticket holders since before Kelly...I know it sounds odd...just it is the fact.

[Tony Nicolette]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

Schools and what division they participate in is not a meritocracy. This isn't soccer in Europe where you get relegated if you stink. The NCAA and its members operate and participate based upon their institutional philosophy, and how they want to fund their programs. That's pretty much it. If a school thinks it is a better fit in a division up from where they are, they simply need to show they can fund adequately, get a conference that wants them, and make the application. They don't have to "prove they are any good" at anything. Now, the process in total is a bit more complex than how I just described it, BUT it does not include (that I am aware of) a requirement that every team in their program has won a certain rate or anything like that.

I get why you may not "agree" with it, but again...it's a program-wide distinction...not specific to any one team, and it isn't based on "you have to win this much to move up".

Now, do I think that a lot of the schools that move up do so without an accurate understanding of WHY they are doing it? You bet. I think there are a lot of administrators in multiple universities that have no concept of what a viable value proposition is to change divisions. But, they seem to do it anyway...

[Tony Nicolette]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

EMU's overall athletic program would dominate the GLIAC the first few years they would be in the league.

Swimming and Diving, easily would win the GLIAC title the first few years. (both men and women).

Track and Field and Cross County would dominate the GLIAC. Let's not forget EMU has had at least one student or graduate represent their home county each Olympics since 1948.

Football would, early in their conference affiliation be very difficult to beat.

Where EMU would drop off is as they don't replace graduating students due to scholarship limits lower at the D2 level.

I'm with Kle, Chap. I think you're probably more right than not on S&D and XC. When it comes to football, however, I think they could be top-end competitive for MAYBE a year or two, but not much more...at least not on a "gimme" basis. As has been discussed on these MB's many times, D1 teams' primary advantage over D2 teams in football is DEPTH. I think a bunch of kids transfer once they see they won't be on fulls, AND one could argue that the level of athlete EMU is getting isn't elite comparatively to the GLIAC to begin with. With the depth gone and a questionable delta in level of talent from there, any perceived advantage they may have would be all but mitigated in my mind.

Again, they would be top-end competitive but I think the notion that they would dominate at all (let alone for any measurable stretch of time) is debatable.

[bigmrg74]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

So why would the GLIAC take an Adrian then if they are a 500 D3 team. Has it gotten to a point of being desperate to just get bigger as a conference. I hope not.

Adrian does have decent facilities from what I've seen of them. They would be a good footprint fit. The real kicker at Adrian would be Ice Hockey. They added NCAA D3 men's and women's hockey there and the Men's program really took off like gangbusters the first couple of years that it was there. They're mostly the reason why Minnesota-Crookston was getting booted from their hockey league because they were a D2 school competing as a D3 program and wasn't eligliable to go to the NCAA's, and that hurt the league overall playing them when it came down to selection time. Really thought it was shady of Crookston to tell their players that they would be dropping the program just as they got on the bus to go play Adrian. That lead to a shibbystorm of a weekend for AC there.

However, if AC was feeling like moving up their athletic department to D2, they would likely have to move up their hockey program as well to D1. There's a lot of rules and regulations about that, but given that there's 4 hockey playing schools in the GLIAC, and they're all in the WCHA with 5 other D2 schools that play up in D1 for hockey, they would be a solid fit there, other than their need for a much bigger barn to play in. Given that the WCHA has two Alaska programs and Alabama-Huntsville, most of the league would love the fairly easy bus ride that AC would be, at least Ferris, Bowling Green, and LSSU would think that.

[ctrabs74]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

There's no "football only" conferences in Division II. The GLIAC needs enough teams to get schools in to the national tournaments in the other sports. If that means taking a crappy football school or two, then so be it.

A good example about how loss of sponsorship in one sport affects membership across the board is the pending departure of Chowan from the CIAA to Conference Carolinas effective with the 2019-2020 season (baseball and men's swimming will compete in Conference Carolinas starting with the upcoming season). It's believed that the move was precipitated in part by the CIAA no longer sponsoring baseball after Elizabeth City State dropped the sport last season, leaving the league with just five current member schools sponsoring the sport: Lincoln (Pa.), Virginia State, Winston-Salem State, St. Augustine's and Chowan. Chowan will remain in the CIAA for football and women's bowling, but they will be full members of Conference Carolinas in other sports, including baseball. It's also worth noting that Chowan is an affiliate member in eight Conference Carolinas sports as of this coming season.

The CIAA will remain at 12 teams in all other sports, however, with the addition of Claflin from the SIAC starting in the 2018-2019 season (so there will be one season where the CIAA has 13 members).

That's not to say the GLIAC will completely disappear if they don't have enough teams sponsoring baseball, but that's an example of how one sport can have a ripple effect on a league's membership.

Also, remember that even with Tiffin's departure, the GLIAC will still have eight baseball teams with the addition of Wisconsin-Parkside next season.

[Brandon]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

There's no "football only" conferences in Division II. The GLIAC needs enough teams to get schools in to the national tournaments in the other sports. If that means taking a crappy football school or two, then so be it.

Here's the reality.

Because of:

1. The way the playoffs in Division II are selected.
2. The way that conferences have become too big
3. The way that strong football programs want to be in a conference with other strong football programs.

The result is:

1. Teams in (for example) the GLIAC are taking losses they might not have if every conference was equally strong.
2. Most of the time a good amount of teams that would have made the playoffs under a perfect scenario are sitting home instead.

There is nothing wrong with a conference like the GLIAC adding a couple of schools who might not be that strong in football in order to stabilize things for the other teams.

[BlueBlood]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

I'm just throwing this out there. Admittedly this is hearsay. My wife's cousin works at Madonna University. Apparently there have been D2 rumors off and on for some time. They don't have football. But, as some have pointed out before, that might be a good thing for the GLIAC (if you do want to add key sports but don't want to deal with a sub-par football team). They just won their NAIA conference's all-sports award. Anyway, just something I heard. Also, for some reason, I have an easier time believing that an NAIA may go D2 than I do believing that one of the long-standing MIAA schools will.

[BlueBlood]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

I probably come from a different perspective than most. I went to Cedarville, a school that didn't/doesn't have football. Not having football kept us out of the GLIAC when we went D2. I fully understand the mentality that football is the driver. However, I do believe there is value in adding a non-football school if they are committed to the other core sports and fit nicely into a conference's geographic footprint. Most D2s have 15+ other teams that would benefit from a short drive to a conference foe.

The problem that a football-only mentality can create is that if there aren't 12 football schools all in close proximity, a conference can get really spread out. That might not be a big deal for the football team that takes 5 or 6 weekend road trips. However, it is a very big deal for the other 18+ teams. There was a very big football-only push among conferences a few years ago. I think long bus rides and missed class time may have taken its toll in some instances and I think you are starting to see some reversal of that trend.

[Brandon]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

I probably come from a different perspective than most. I went to Cedarville, a school that didn't/doesn't have football. Not having football kept us out of the GLIAC when we went D2. I fully understand the mentality that football is the driver. However, I do believe there is value in adding a non-football school if they are committed to the other core sports and fit nicely into a conference's geographic footprint. Most D2s have 15+ other teams that would benefit from a short drive to a conference foe.

The problem that a football-only mentality can create is that if there aren't 12 football schools all in close proximity, a conference can get really spread out. That might not be a big deal for the football team that takes 5 or 6 weekend road trips. However, it is a very big deal for the other 18+ teams. There was a very big football-only push among conferences a few years ago. I think long bus rides and missed class time may have taken its toll in some instances and I think you are starting to see some reversal of that trend.

The thing that concerns football schools about non-football schools is a shift in the culture/voting patterns of the conference.

[cneagle99]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

Schools and what division they participate in is not a meritocracy. This isn't soccer in Europe where you get relegated if you stink.

Perhaps it should be. Would solve a lot of problems.

[dvaara]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

Perhaps it should be. Would solve a lot of problems.

and create a lot

[vannzee]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

Serious interest in joining GLIAC U think?

[KleShreen]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

If Adrian ever moved up, I think there is a slim-to-none chance that *they* would consider the GLIAC. GLIAC would want them, but they would go along with Hillsdale.

[bigmrg74]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

Adrian's hockey arena is small even for D3. It looks more like a practice rink than a game rink. They really should have gone a little bit bigger when they built it and had room for about another 800 people in there easy.

[bigmrg74]

Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

If Adrian ever moved up, I think there is a slim-to-none chance that *they* would consider the GLIAC. GLIAC would want them, but they would go along with Hillsdale.

Some of the Hillsdale old timers might not want that, as Adrian was one of the schools that voted to basically kick Hillsdale out of the MIAA back in the day because HC was thumping on them a lot way back in the day.