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UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

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  • #61
    Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

    Originally posted by BuffaloChip View Post
    The WT AD told me about 5 years ago, that to compete at the top tier of the Southland, a minimum budget of $14M to $15M would be necessary. That was 5 years ago. I imagine you'd need about $18M today to compete for championships in all sports. WT's budget will be bumping on $11M by 2019. Could WT make the jump financially to a $16M-$18M budget? Not till FB starts winning again. Even then, WT would be at the mercy of the very fickle Amarillo fan base and better than lukewarm but not fantastic business community support. I'd hate to hang my hat on them. If WT hits 15,000 students by 2024 or so, it might be more feasible.

    What other LSC schools could pony up a $15M or better budget? If any fans have that kind of info or ideas about it, please post it on here.
    Fan bases don’t help fund athletic programs to any degree except for the top tier of P5 programs. All programs that are sub P5 have fickle fan bases.

    WT is D2 because they don’t have sufficient taxes from the students to pay for D1.

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    • #62
      Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

      Originally posted by Herb Street View Post
      Fan bases don’t help fund athletic programs to any degree except for the top tier of P5 programs. All programs that are sub P5 have fickle fan bases.

      WT is D2 because they don’t have sufficient taxes from the students to pay for D1.
      WT has the biggest athletic budget per the Tarleton reports of any school in the LSC.

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      • #63
        Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

        When was this report made? Shows WT's endowment at $20 million....WT's endowment is around $72 million.

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        • #64
          Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

          NVM found it 2014

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          • #65
            Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

            Originally posted by BuffaloChip View Post
            The WT AD told me about 5 years ago, that to compete at the top tier of the Southland, a minimum budget of $14M to $15M would be necessary. That was 5 years ago. I imagine you'd need about $18M today to compete for championships in all sports. WT's budget will be bumping on $11M by 2019. Could WT make the jump financially to a $16M-$18M budget? Not till FB starts winning again. Even then, WT would be at the mercy of the very fickle Amarillo fan base and better than lukewarm but not fantastic business community support. I'd hate to hang my hat on them. If WT hits 15,000 students by 2024 or so, it might be more feasible.

            What other LSC schools could pony up a $15M or better budget? If any fans have that kind of info or ideas about it, please post it on here.
            Here are some numbers that do not add up. Nicholls State of the Southland show an Athletic Budget of $8 million, endowment of $7+ million and a loss by the University of $56 million last year. So, how does this work in the real world?

            Despite the low budget, they are competitive. And, what it does show is that a budget of $8 million is all you need in the Southland Conference to be able to compete. Nicholls finished ahead of SFA in Football, Basketball and Baseball. On the women's side Nicholls basketball, softball and volleyball all finished with winning in conference records. Best conference record in women's softball. Not sure what SFA is spending so much money on.

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            • #66
              Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

              Originally posted by Techster88 View Post
              Here are some numbers that do not add up. Nicholls State of the Southland show an Athletic Budget of $8 million, endowment of $7+ million and a loss by the University of $56 million last year. So, how does this work in the real world?

              Despite the low budget, they are competitive. And, what it does show is that a budget of $8 million is all you need in the Southland Conference to be able to compete. Nicholls finished ahead of SFA in Football, Basketball and Baseball. On the women's side Nicholls basketball, softball and volleyball all finished with winning in conference records. Best conference record in women's softball. Not sure what SFA is spending so much money on.

              The key phrase in Chip’s post— competitive in all sports. The schools that spend the most— Sam Houston, SFA and Lamar— consistently rank at the top of the Commissioner’s Cup standings each year. The Commissioners Cup goes to the school with the highest combined finish in all sports. SFA has won three in a row. Nicholls is at or near the bottom of the standings because they focus on a few sports and neglect others.

              In terms of money sports, since ACU joined the conference, SFA has typically dominated basketball and Sam has dominated football. When we first moved to the Southland, Nicholls was the worst football team in the conference. They have been on a three year roll under a coach who knows how to recruit and coach even though they are forced to play two FBS schools each year to generate enough revenue to keep their program afloat. Since FBS games are virtually assured losses, playing two such games every year hurts playoff chances.

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              • #67
                Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

                Originally posted by Herb Street View Post
                who the hell is that?
                Pretty much Moses. Out of Egypt and into the promised land..

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                • #68
                  Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

                  Originally posted by catatonic View Post
                  The key phrase in Chip’s post— competitive in all sports. The schools that spend the most— Sam Houston, SFA and Lamar— consistently rank at the top of the Commissioner’s Cup standings each year. The Commissioners Cup goes to the school with the highest combined finish in all sports. SFA has won three in a row. Nicholls is at or near the bottom of the standings because they focus on a few sports and neglect others.

                  In terms of money sports, since ACU joined the conference, SFA has typically dominated basketball and Sam has dominated football. When we first moved to the Southland, Nicholls was the worst football team in the conference. They have been on a three year roll under a coach who knows how to recruit and coach even though they are forced to play two FBS schools each year to generate enough revenue to keep their program afloat. Since FBS games are virtually assured losses, playing two such games every year hurts playoff chances.
                  Seriously, Nicholls was winless first year ACU came aboard. That’s it. Houston Baptist has been the dog of the Southland. ACU and UIW have gotten progressively worse with time to the point where they are challenging HBU for the cellar.

                  If ACU drops the game to Angelo this fall, I am going to have to agree with Herb that D2 coaches may not understand how to coach in D1.

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                  • #69
                    Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

                    Originally posted by Techster88 View Post
                    If ACU drops the game to Angelo this fall, I am going to have to agree with Herb that D2 coaches may not understand how to coach in D1.
                    Willie Fritz and Brian Kelley have done really well.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

                      Originally posted by Techster88 View Post
                      Seriously, Nicholls was winless first year ACU came aboard. That’s it. Houston Baptist has been the dog of the Southland. ACU and UIW have gotten progressively worse with time to the point where they are challenging HBU for the cellar.

                      If ACU drops the game to Angelo this fall, I am going to have to agree with Herb that D2 coaches may not understand how to coach in D1.
                      2017 was the first winning season football season Nicholls has had this decade. Most seasons their record has been as bad or worse than ACU’s. I haven’t gone back to check but I doubt Nicholls has ever won a commissioners cup.
                      https://geauxcolonels.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=102

                      Give Dorrel more than 2 years before drawing any conclusions about moving from D2 to FCS. Dorrel had a lot of attrition among players during his first year here...Guys who really didn’t buy into what Dorrel was asking of them. Dorrel has pretty much had to rebuild from the bottom up. I think we will be better this year but I don’t expect to be in the top half of the conference. Yet.
                      Last edited by catatonic; 07-20-2018, 01:06 PM.

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                      • #71
                        Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

                        Originally posted by catatonic View Post
                        2017 was the first winning season football season Nicholls has had this decade. Most seasons their record has been as bad or worse than ACU’s. I haven’t gone back to check but I doubt Nicholls has ever won a commissioners cup.
                        I don't know much about their success/failure but I do know that stories about funding issues seem to come up all the time with their name attached. Looking at the data, they look more like a D2 school than an FCS school financially.

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                        • #72
                          Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

                          Originally posted by Brandon View Post
                          I don't know much about their success/failure but I do know that stories about funding issues seem to come up all the time with their name attached. Looking at the data, they look more like a D2 school than an FCS school financially.
                          Louisiana schools not named LSU are all hurting financially. Nicholls more than most. They hustle every dollar they can by scheduling games against big schools...pay for play...and so forth.

                          They have done an excellent job with very limited resources. They have done so by focusing the little they have on a few sports rather than spreading limited dollars around.

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                          • #73
                            Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

                            Originally posted by catatonic View Post
                            Louisiana schools not named LSU are all hurting financially. Nicholls more than most. They hustle every dollar they can by scheduling games against big schools...pay for play...and so forth.

                            They have done an excellent job with very limited resources. They have done so by focusing the little they have on a few sports rather than spreading limited dollars around.
                            I guess those Cajuns don't give a dime about Nichols down in Bayou country.

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                            • #74
                              Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

                              Originally posted by Michael Whitfield View Post
                              I guess those Cajuns don't give a dime about Nichols down in Bayou country.
                              :smile-big:

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                              • #75
                                Re: UT Tyler moving to D2 and LSC

                                Originally posted by Techster88 View Post
                                Seriously, Nicholls was winless first year ACU came aboard. That’s it. Houston Baptist has been the dog of the Southland. ACU and UIW have gotten progressively worse with time to the point where they are challenging HBU for the cellar.

                                If ACU drops the game to Angelo this fall, I am going to have to agree with Herb that D2 coaches may not understand how to coach in D1.
                                While there are exceptions, D2 coaches usually can't get it done at D1, and that is in all sports. And I suppose the opposite could very well be true. There have been more than a few modestly successful D1 coaches that were awful in D2.

                                D1 and D2 are very different animals.

                                Those in athletics administration know this fully; D1 coaching hires from the D2 ranks are not very common, and when they do occur, it is most often a desperate, hail-mary move for a program struggling to stay afloat.

                                Women's basketball seems to be the only sport where good D2 coaches are consistently able to transfer their prowess to D1.

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