West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Refer to this post that I wrote yesterday for the raw data:

http://www.d2football.com/forum/show...23#post2031023

As I've said before, numbers are just numbers without an underlying definition of how they are applied. For example two of the criteria are overall DII W/L results and results vs common opponents. It's easy to come up with a numerical value for each of those. But what "value" does the NCAA give to each when comparing them? Say team A has a .900 DII W/L and team B has a .850 but team B is 2-1 (.666) vs common opponents and team A is 1-2 (.333), is that enough to overcome the .050 advantage team A has over team B in W/L? Strict math says no but I don't know and the NCAA has never said. There are posters who have said they have broken the NCAA code but I note that they often get it wrong (their formula says team A should be 2 with B at 3 but the NCAA has A at 3 and B at 2) which says to me that they don't really have the formula or that there really is no NCAA formula.

Fact that the NCAA won't tell us how they come to their seeding decisions speaks volumes about weather the system is an impartial, repeatable and totally objective process as the NCAA would have us believe OR weather it is a subjective process were the NCAA uses a set of numbers to validate their notion of what is "right."

[ctrabs74]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

As is typical with the NCAA, we will get no explanation of how they came to their seeding decision...nor will we get the score sheets. Just have to "trust" that the NCAA applied the criteria fairly and impartially...even when the available evidence shows otherwise.

Same thing will happen when they re-seed the final 4...NCAA will announce them and nothing more.

Refer to this post that I wrote yesterday for the raw data:

http://www.d2football.com/forum/show...23#post2031023

[Chevydude89]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Yeah real nice. Coaches put us 7 in the nation above #2 team in the region. 5 teams top 10 in the nation in the same region... wat a joke

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

As is typical with the NCAA, we will get no explanation of how they came to their seeding decision...nor will we get the score sheets. Just have to "trust" that the NCAA applied the criteria fairly and impartially...even when the available evidence shows otherwise.

Same thing will happen when they re-seed the final 4...NCAA will announce them and nothing more.

[JDonAB92]

criteria as outlined in the manual is to make this process 'objective' and not 'subjective". I am trying to figure out what the committee was looking at because it does seem to give the edge to West Liberty.

The seed is important here because West Liberty has an overall system that is very hard to prepare for. Any coach that has faced West Lib (both old and new conference) will tell you that. But that changes when you play a team for the 4th time. Wheeling has already seen it 3 times. I still think West Lib wins on Saturday, but Wheeling has seen and prepared for Crutch's stuff three times. I know the same could be said for Crutchfield being able to prepare for Wheeling 3 previous times. I get that. But the criteria that I analyzed seems to say that West Liberty beats out Shippensburg.

Oh well.....it won't change any thing.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Nothing is being changed now but that's a dramatic difference in first round opponent. Wheeling Jesuit has had its moments this year but is a VERY capable No. 6 seed. Whereas ... Ship is going to likely blow Virginia Union out of the building.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

JUst posted this on another thread...Agree with you JDONAB!!!!

My last comment on the seedings....I think WL should have been 2 and Ship 3....

WL beat Fairmont 2x, Ship beat IUP 2x. Advantage WL bc Fairmont is #1.
WL beat WJ 2x, Ship beat Kutz 2x. Advantage Ship bc Kutz is better than WJ.
Concord beat WL, Millersville beat Ship. Both bad losses. Slight adv to WL bc Concord is 11-17 and M'ville is 9-17.
And while neither team played a murderous Non Conf schedule, Ship should absolutely be penalized for playing two puke PSU teams in the beginning of the season... So Adv WL.

I think WL deserved to be #2.

Enough of the sourgrapes, time to play the games that you have scheduled.

[DownLow55]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

What fails to get mentioned is that West Liberty made an effort to play an all D2 schedule!!! Shippensburg blatantly scheduled Charmin Soft the first weekend of the season playing PSU Wilkes Baire and PSU Fayette.....satellite campus games that don't count towards NCAA tournament play. And because they scheduled those two teams during the first weekend of the year, they weren't allowed to get the extra D-II games that are afforded you under NCAA rules when you play a crossover event during the first weekend of the season. West Liberty played 4 more Division II games than Shippensburg did. West Lib followed the criteria allowed under the NCAA D2 rules and got extra D2 games because they scheduled a D2 event the first weekend of the year. Shippensburg couldn't get 2 extra games because they scheduled Charmin Soft the first weekend.

31 Division II games trumps 27 Division II games especially when one team blatantly schedules cream puffs. Teams should not be rewarded for scheduling satellite campuses that do not count in overall record under NCAA criteria.

Good point and West liberty won 3 games against tournament #1 seeds Fairmont (2) and Lemoyne (76-53). Oh well, just take care of business.

[JDonAB92]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

What fails to get mentioned is that West Liberty made an effort to play an all D2 schedule!!! Shippensburg blatantly scheduled Charmin Soft the first weekend of the season playing PSU Wilkes Baire and PSU Fayette.....satellite campus games that don't count towards NCAA tournament play. And because they scheduled those two teams during the first weekend of the year, they weren't allowed to get the extra D-II games that are afforded you under NCAA rules when you play a crossover event during the first weekend of the season. West Liberty played 4 more Division II games than Shippensburg did. West Lib followed the criteria allowed under the NCAA D2 rules and got extra D2 games because they scheduled a D2 event the first weekend of the year. Shippensburg couldn't get 2 extra games because they scheduled Charmin Soft the first weekend.

31 Division II games trumps 27 Division II games especially when one team blatantly schedules cream puffs. Teams should not be rewarded for scheduling satellite campuses that do not count in overall record under NCAA criteria.

[Layton]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Not hosting was questionable, getting the third seed was a joke, playing our rival in the first round for the 4th time this year is just downright pathetic

[DownLow55]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Fairmont is hosting.

WL as a 3 seed. What a joke these seedings are.

[Golden89]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Fairmont is hosting.

[FlyHawk98]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

The listed capacity doesn't include the smaller set of bleachers they put behind each basket. It also doesn't include the area for the big donors who sit up top with catered food.


Once again, West Liberty has done an excellent job of hosting this tournament multiple times.

[fightingfalcon]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

1,200 is what West Liberty's athletics website says the capacity is, so if it's been enlarged, they need to update their website. Even at 2,500, it would not surprise me to see it sold out if West Lib and Fairmont play there.

I do appreciate your giving us updated info on the capacity, FlyHawk.

[FlyHawk98]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Did I read correctly that the seating capacity of West Liberty's fieldhouse is 1,200? If so, then if West Lib does get to host the regional, they should consider another venue, maybe Wesbanco Arena in Wheeling or someplace with a larger capacity.

We have successfully hosted many times. The original seating capacity was 1,200. It seats more than that. It has a capacity of somewhere in the range of 2,500 and is a much nicer facility than what Fairmont has.