PSAC WEST

[Ship69]

A comment he types into a message board . . . ostensibly using an electronic device. ; )

[Not disagreeing with the point--just savoring the irony.]

I use electronic devices quite often, but I can get along without them just fine. I rarely look at my phone when I'm outside the house and almost never when I'm with people or eating. It amazes me how involved people can get in doing nothing these days.

[bballfan03]

I guess I'm old school and apparently part of a dying breed. Give me the 'live' game anytime. I hate watching on TV or the computer. Especially the computer. No patience.

I like watching the nuances of the game ... hearing the crowd reactions, etc. You just miss so much on the TV feed. Obviously if I lived far away it would be a different story. My kids have also grown up in the KCAC and enjoy the games.

IUP made some big changes to the game-day experience. The bar is now out in the concourse. The Hilton (about 50' away) has become a huge hangout before and after games (for the older crowd). Music is better. The games in the KCAC when it's crowded just feel like an event. The crowds have been much more engaged this year -- and more young(ish). The Cal game was as loud as I've heard the KCAC in 6 years. When they made the big comeback and then took off the place was jumping. The crowd went after Brent Pegram hard. Danny Sancomb, too. That's homecourt advantage. That's part of the reason Joe will only play night games. They have it flowing right now. This is a likable team unlike some past editions. For the first time in years they are getting a boost from the home crowd. We'll see if it lasts.

I guess I grew up in a much different PSAC. In my era Cal would pack it ... Clarion, too. Edinboro used to always get big crowds (at least any game I went to). Times change.

UPJ should be booming. They have a small city to draw from and ... it's Johnstown. Not exactly much to do in the winter up there. I do get UPJ is pretty disconnected from the local yocals.

Schools can draw but it takes some work. To get the average fan in the building it takes more than just basketball.

I love my Knights, but am perfectly content watching the game on a big screen, on a comfortable couch (rather than wooden bleachers), and not having to pay $5 to either get pissed off at the underachieving team or the poor officiating.. often both lol

What really sealed the deal though was when the plush seats were EMPTY and after a few minutes into the game a friend and I moved down to them. Some guy came running at us and told us we couldn't sit there unless we had season tickets. He then said we either go back up or hed toss us. Whoa buddy! We went back to the bleachers... the block of 3 rows of 8 seats that were empty when we tried moving... remained empty the entire game. But Bodyguard Billy sat at the bottom of the stairs the entire game making sure only season ticket holders sat there. Youd think when you only have truly about 200 showing up.. youd want to pack the plush seats to make it look more crowded. If the people aren't there by half, they're not coming. And if they do, then you move. It was just quite a joke.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I guess I'm old school and apparently part of a dying breed. Give me the 'live' game anytime. I hate watching on TV or the computer. Especially the computer. No patience.

I like watching the nuances of the game ... hearing the crowd reactions, etc. You just miss so much on the TV feed. Obviously if I lived far away it would be a different story. My kids have also grown up in the KCAC and enjoy the games.

IUP made some big changes to the game-day experience. The bar is now out in the concourse. The Hilton (about 50' away) has become a huge hangout before and after games (for the older crowd). Music is better. The games in the KCAC when it's crowded just feel like an event. The crowds have been much more engaged this year -- and more young(ish). The Cal game was as loud as I've heard the KCAC in 6 years. When they made the big comeback and then took off the place was jumping. The crowd went after Brent Pegram hard. Danny Sancomb, too. That's homecourt advantage. That's part of the reason Joe will only play night games. They have it flowing right now. This is a likable team unlike some past editions. For the first time in years they are getting a boost from the home crowd. We'll see if it lasts.

I guess I grew up in a much different PSAC. In my era Cal would pack it ... Clarion, too. Edinboro used to always get big crowds (at least any game I went to). Times change.

UPJ should be booming. They have a small city to draw from and ... it's Johnstown. Not exactly much to do in the winter up there. I do get UPJ is pretty disconnected from the local yocals.

Schools can draw but it takes some work. To get the average fan in the building it takes more than just basketball.

[IUP24]

I've always thought that Ship could be a real tough place to play. Seems like a very big gym (seating wise) with the old school feel and acoustics. I agree that it's a shame the people there have not come with what Fite has been able to put together. I imagine if that place ever got filled almost like three quarters of the way it could be a great atmosphere. But, that can also be one of those things where the people and the school just simply don't take an appetite to basketball. Similar to Slippery Rock. Ship and SRU do great for football attendance. Both seem to really, really struggle for basketball. Slippery Rock only draws when IUP comes to town.

[Scrub]

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this. It's getting harder and harder to get people out of their homes (and their faces out of their electronic devices) every year.

A comment he types into a message board . . . ostensibly using an electronic device. ; )

[Not disagreeing with the point--just savoring the irony.]

[Ship69]

Sure its a great product - but people just don't attend things like they used to. Its never been more convenient to be entertained in your own home. For $13 a month, I have access to over 5,000 movies and series on Netflix. My wife could watch Friends from end to end every week and probably be entertained. And that's before all the streaming services we split with our siblings. I got rid of cable 5 years ago and watch more TV now - and I believe that is a common statistic. People who stream (college students) actually watch more TV.

I live 20 minutes from LaRoche College. I've never once attended a LaRoche College athletic event. Why would I? I guess that's why some guy living in Saegertown has never traveled 20 minutes to watch Edinboro basketball.

We're also schools with terrible alumni giving rates. Even our own alumni don't really care much. If they won't throw $25 a year toward the scholarship fund they too are not going to pay $7 to watch a basketball game.

[CALUPA69]

Can't say it was the change of venue, that would see to help, or the decline in the program, but VULCANS MBB seemed to fall off a ledge attendance wise after the change to the ANGELO DOME. Last nine seasons at HAMER, with teams averaging 20-10, attendance varied from 396('05) to 1183('07) for an average of 754. That probably felt fairly exciting in the close confines of HH. In 2011-12 moving southeast 100 yds, the AD started out OK averaging 880 to watch a 17-12 team. After that things went steadily downhill both attendance and basketball wise. First nine years at the CONVOCATION CENTER attendance ranged from 880 in '11-'12 to 252 in '17-'18 for an average of 394 watching 11-15 basketball. With five PSAC WEST games coming, at least four of which seem winnable, I would like to see the final home attendance get to 500 average which means those five games need to draw 836 each. Not impossible but certainly a big task. Time will tell.

[Fightingscot82]

No doubt it's declining across the board but we're talking about teams in our league getting 200 people (or less) at a varsity game. Little league games draw more.

To each school its own, I suppose.

It's a shame because the product is really good -- much better than most outsiders realize -- and it's inexpensive (at most places).

Sure its a great product - but people just don't attend things like they used to. Its never been more convenient to be entertained in your own home. For $13 a month, I have access to over 5,000 movies and series on Netflix. My wife could watch Friends from end to end every week and probably be entertained. And that's before all the streaming services we split with our siblings. I got rid of cable 5 years ago and watch more TV now - and I believe that is a common statistic. People who stream (college students) actually watch more TV.

I live 20 minutes from LaRoche College. I've never once attended a LaRoche College athletic event. Why would I? I guess that's why some guy living in Saegertown has never traveled 20 minutes to watch Edinboro basketball.

We're also schools with terrible alumni giving rates. Even our own alumni don't really care much. If they won't throw $25 a year toward the scholarship fund they too are not going to pay $7 to watch a basketball game.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

No doubt it's declining across the board but we're talking about teams in our league getting 200 people (or less) at a varsity game. Little league games draw more.

To each school its own, I suppose.

It's a shame because the product is really good -- much better than most outsiders realize -- and it's inexpensive (at most places).

[Fightingscot82]

SI wrote about it a little bit ago.

https://www.si.com/college/2020/01/1...e-decline-ncaa

[Ship69]

Only speaking with knowledge of Edinboro - that number is half of what it was 15 years ago. Probably more an indictment of the options folks have moreso than the programs themselves.

Attendance is declining in many sports these days. Also, I would imagine many of the students at PSAC schools pack up their bags and head for home on the weekends as they have always done.

[PSACwatcher]

I think it would help if there was a more focused, organized effort on the part of the Dean of Students office to attract students to games held on campus, just as the WLU women's coach does. But, winning is still the ultimate marketing tool. Sadly, many struggling colleges are using sports only to boost enrollment and don't care about winning. As a result, this sort of attendance apathy is what you get. I know it is disappointing to the players to run out for warmups to a smattering of claps by 150 people. Most of those players played in front of larger crowds in high school.

[Scrub]

The colleges could also do more to sponsor community events, such as, for example, inviting youth basketball programs to games for free just to have fannies in the seats but they don't.

WLU women's coach does exactly that. Every women's game, there's a different girls youth basketball program in the house. And he sometimes even gives them a little job (i.e., run a water bottle out to the ref during a time out, etc.). He does a great job getting local youth involved. As a result, the women draw around 800 or 900 on average. And, as someone said above, the women have their own pretty faithful following.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I think there are two pools of potential spectators: students and "town residents". In general, I believe "town residents" will go to games only if the team is a legit winner, like an IUP. If Lock Haven or Clarion or even Seton Hill in Gbg was ranked top ten, I think they would draw more non-students to the games. But those colleges don't commit to winning like IUP does.

As for the students, winning would certainly help to bring more students, but I think the bottom line is that students just have too many other things to do as compared to 15-20 years ago. But I also think the colleges do a HORRIBLE job of trying to get their own students interested in going to sporting events on campus. The colleges could also do more to sponsor community events, such as, for example, inviting youth basketball programs to games for free just to have fannies in the seats but they don't.

The '15-20 years ago' was roughly my era as a student. Clarion used to be a brutal road game. They used to pack Tippin. That place was one of the loudest gyms I've ever been inside (when it was juiced up). I can recall big crowds at McComb, too.

Remember Gannon in the 80s and early 90s? The Hammermill was INSANE.

[PSACwatcher]

I think there are two pools of potential spectators: students and "town residents". In general, I believe "town residents" will go to games only if the team is a legit winner, like an IUP. If Lock Haven or Clarion or even Seton Hill in Gbg was ranked top ten, I think they would draw more non-students to the games. But those colleges don't commit to winning like IUP does.

As for the students, winning would certainly help to bring more students, but I think the bottom line is that students just have too many other things to do as compared to 15-20 years ago. But I also think the colleges do a HORRIBLE job of trying to get their own students interested in going to sporting events on campus. The colleges could also do more to sponsor community events, such as, for example, inviting youth basketball programs to games for free just to have fannies in the seats but they don't.