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  • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Verplancken got an offer from St. Bonaventure.
    Vernplancken offers from Southern Illinois, McNeese, Quinnipiac, Southern Utah, Saint Bonny
    lots of MM D1 tracking

    Comment


    • Originally posted by wheelingtopper62 View Post
      Allessondro offers from AB, Georgian Court, OK Baptist, Tiffin, Walsh, Stonehill, Le Moyne
      Shiflett offers from Fresno Pacific, Biola, Montevallo, Slipper Rock, Coker, KY Wesleyan

      This is a great example of why transfers so often fail.

      Nothing to do with either Shiflett or Allesandro, but they both got like 5-6 offers within hours of hitting the portal. That's sight-unseen recruiting. Coaches watch a HUDL tape (which, obviously only shows the good stuff) and make a 3-minute phone call. That's the extent of it and an offer gets made. Could there have been more to the story of why they are leaving an elite program so quickly?

      I suppose in the modern internet world that's how recruiting gets done nowadays. But, you'd sure like to meet a kid before you extend that offer. A lot of them are total dip****s ... and you're stuck with them at that point for at least a season.

      I get the West Liberty pedigree makes them much more attractive -- and that you can't have campus visits right now. But, this type of 3-minute recruiting is how it has been done for years. Slippery Rock used to go to JUCO Showcase tournaments and offer 25 players -- with the caveat the first so many to sign get the spots.

      This transfer-happy universe is going to make it almost impossible for Clarion types to ever be good. Go there for a year ... get big stats ... get the hell out of town and open a bidding war. It's the new norm. The trickle-down effect is mid-major kids are jumping to the P5. D2 kids are jumping to the mid-majors.

      If you keep your stars at D2 now ... Dalton Bolon, Armoni Foster, Malik Miller ... for four years ... you are extremely fortunate.

      Comment


      • Is that perhaps why WLU has had such success with recruiting kids who weren't projected to be stars (i.e., Bolon, Dyer, etc.) and helping them to work toward becoming stars? If you get a projected star (i.e., Dave Dennis, Yahel Hill, Clay Guillozet, etc.), they might go try to chase stardom somewhere else. If you get a guy who has to work toward his stardom, he may just stick it out with you once he earns his spot. Just spitballing a bit here. In other words, maybe it's less about being fortunate that Bolon stayed, but rather a targeted recruiting strategy of getting a "project guy" with the right mindset?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Scrub View Post
          Is that perhaps why WLU has had such success with recruiting kids who weren't projected to be stars (i.e., Bolon, Dyer, etc.) and helping them to work toward becoming stars? If you get a projected star (i.e., Dave Dennis, Yahel Hill, Clay Guillozet, etc.), they might go try to chase stardom somewhere else. If you get a guy who has to work toward his stardom, he may just stick it out with you once he earns his spot. Just spitballing a bit here. In other words, maybe it's less about being fortunate that Bolon stayed, but rather a targeted recruiting strategy of getting a "project guy" with the right mindset?

          That's been the UPJ model for years and years. They routinely find kids in the middle of Nowhere, USA. Granted, they aren't an elite program ... but, they are pretty good year after year. They also almost never have any players leave. They very, very rarely take a transfer.

          It's not easy. I'd just be hard-pressed as a coach to buy a player basically sight-unseen. One huge advantage of coaches with deep pipelines is they have a lot of connections for references, etc.

          Joe's approach has mostly been to find his future stars via high school recruiting -- recently Webb, Ashton, Cobo, Dante, Armoni, Malik, Porterfield, etc., and then supplement them with the right transfers at the right times. Granted, he has a big checkbook to work with which helps a ton.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post


            This is a great example of why transfers so often fail.

            Nothing to do with either Shiflett or Allesandro, but they both got like 5-6 offers within hours of hitting the portal. That's sight-unseen recruiting. Coaches watch a HUDL tape (which, obviously only shows the good stuff) and make a 3-minute phone call. That's the extent of it and an offer gets made. Could there have been more to the story of why they are leaving an elite program so quickly?

            I suppose in the modern internet world that's how recruiting gets done nowadays. But, you'd sure like to meet a kid before you extend that offer. A lot of them are total dip****s ... and you're stuck with them at that point for at least a season.

            I get the West Liberty pedigree makes them much more attractive -- and that you can't have campus visits right now. But, this type of 3-minute recruiting is how it has been done for years. Slippery Rock used to go to JUCO Showcase tournaments and offer 25 players -- with the caveat the first so many to sign get the spots.

            This transfer-happy universe is going to make it almost impossible for Clarion types to ever be good. Go there for a year ... get big stats ... get the hell out of town and open a bidding war. It's the new norm. The trickle-down effect is mid-major kids are jumping to the P5. D2 kids are jumping to the mid-majors.

            If you keep your stars at D2 now ... Dalton Bolon, Armoni Foster, Malik Miller ... for four years ... you are extremely fortunate.
            In Allessondro defense, he did start 22 games this last season even in a minor role for one of the hottest teams in the country. As far as Shiflett goes, he played for one of the best HS teams in the country and had D1 offers out of HS before an injury to his shooting hand sidelined him for the majority of his RS year. Both are younger guys who have high upside, and more eligibility left than not. Both are typical “west-lib” character guys meaning no matter where they go their personalities will help build a winning culture.

            Comment


            • Vernplancken offered by Loyola Chicago. Anybody giving a kid crap for chasing his dream of playing basketball at the highest level should really examine themselves.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by wheelingtopper62 View Post
                Vernplancken offered by Loyola Chicago. Anybody giving a kid crap for chasing his dream of playing basketball at the highest level should really examine themselves.
                Where was he given any 'crap' on here?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by wheelingtopper62 View Post
                  Vernplancken offered by Loyola Chicago. Anybody giving a kid crap for chasing his dream of playing basketball at the highest level should really examine themselves.
                  What???

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

                    Top 10 teams in Atlantic region could probably hang with southern Utah. I guess if you are not playing after college and want to brag about being d1 then go right ahead.

                    I hope he realizes the NBA is not in his future regardless of his skill. Not big enough or quick enough. Europe is entirely different style. Pick a school that will develop the basketball iq for that style rather than low level d1 teams that mimic the nba style.
                    This message in particular, I can only see 3-4 teams in the entire region who can compete for 40 minutes with any level or D1. The athleticism and overall size even at the LM level is not matched by any team in the MEC.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

                      Testing the water ... don't let the door hit ya. These coaches best set a precedent that if you test the waters you're no longer welcome.
                      Also this one.. if the coaching staff is wanting what’s best for the player, not only him, or the program, what’s so wrong with this? A lot more opportunities present themselves at ANY D1 compared to GSC.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by wheelingtopper62 View Post

                        This message in particular, I can only see 3-4 teams in the entire region who can compete for 40 minutes with any level or D1. The athleticism and overall size even at the LM level is not matched by any team in the MEC.
                        I am struggling to I see where I am giving him cr*p.

                        1. hanging with southern Utah—- clearly opinion but has nothing to do with him personally. The list of high d2 schools that have defeated d1 schools have been exhaustively covered before. Iup fans can probably speak to lack of interest by D1 in playing them.
                        2. Last I checked there were 3 guys less than 6-3 in nba. To make it in nba you also have to be all American or at least all conference and go to power 5 conference. One of the shorter guys had his numbered retired at his school. Look at average heights and weights at each position. I would argue that these facts support my assertion that he won’t play in nba like 99.999% of us. Also saw him play in person. To suggest otherwise would be deceitful.
                        3. If his dream is to play professionally, I said that he needs to choose a school that plays the European style. I contend that this is a logically sound statement for any non NBA player.

                        4. But if his dream is to just play D1 and compete at highest level and get a good education and not play in Europe then none of these issues that I mentioned are relevant.

                        I just see too many kids being sold unrealistic dreams and exploited, especially at D1. But he is an adult. Just don’t see the personal attack in my reasoning.


                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by wheelingtopper62 View Post
                          Vernplancken offered by Loyola Chicago. Anybody giving a kid crap for chasing his dream of playing basketball at the highest level should really examine themselves.
                          FYI on oct 29, 2019 Loyola of Chicago lost to
                          D2 Univ. of Indianapolis in exhibition 65-60 on Loyola’s home court.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
                            FYI on oct 29, 2019 Loyola of Chicago lost to
                            D2 Univ. of Indianapolis in exhibition 65-60 on Loyola’s home court.
                            UINDY plays a more traditional way with a big on the floor able to contend with most LM/MM programs. Basketball is a game played differently in different regions of the country and in the Midwest the style relies on much more pace. With all respect, UINDY was a top 15 D2 program this past season and over the last decade, on a shortlist of 5-10 D2 programs who’s success is unmatched. Also IUP plays a much different style than ANY SCHOOL IN THE MEC. IUP would have a much greater chance of defeating a D1 school in my opinion. UINDY traditionally gets many D1 kickbacks from power 5, MVC, OVC, MAC schools. As much as everyone might hate to hear this on the thread, kids dreams are to play D1 regardless of the school. People growing up dreaming to play for GLENVILLE STATE are few and far between.

                            **Also worth noting, playing D2 does not automatically guarantee someone better European Pro offers. Especially for a kid like Vernplancken, who is originally from Belgium and has already turned down multiple club offers. Have been to a few Atlantic Regionals in my day and 2012 when WLU hosted was quite an atmosphere, there is nothing that can compare to the chance of playing in the D1 March Madness.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

                              I am struggling to I see where I am giving him cr*p.

                              1. hanging with southern Utah—- clearly opinion but has nothing to do with him personally. The list of high d2 schools that have defeated d1 schools have been exhaustively covered before. Iup fans can probably speak to lack of interest by D1 in playing them.
                              2. Last I checked there were 3 guys less than 6-3 in nba. To make it in nba you also have to be all American or at least all conference and go to power 5 conference. One of the shorter guys had his numbered retired at his school. Look at average heights and weights at each position. I would argue that these facts support my assertion that he won’t play in nba like 99.999% of us. Also saw him play in person. To suggest otherwise would be deceitful.
                              3. If his dream is to play professionally, I said that he needs to choose a school that plays the European style. I contend that this is a logically sound statement for any non NBA player.

                              4. But if his dream is to just play D1 and compete at highest level and get a good education and not play in Europe then none of these issues that I mentioned are relevant.

                              I just see too many kids being sold unrealistic dreams and exploited, especially at D1. But he is an adult. Just don’t see the personal attack in my reasoning.

                              Columbuseer I take back my comment about cr*p. Forgive me, it is hard to understand tone over cpu screen. Vernplancken is a heck of a player and I’m sure glad to not see him waste 4 years at a program not capable of winning region.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by wheelingtopper62 View Post

                                Also this one.. if the coaching staff is wanting what’s best for the player, not only him, or the program, what’s so wrong with this? A lot more opportunities present themselves at ANY D1 compared to GSC.

                                That's a real big 'if', however. D2 coaches aren't hired to be a developmental guide to D1. They are hired to win. Quickly. And, if they lose their stars ... they likely won't be employed at their current school very long.

                                You have to remember this is a 'fan' site ... so, of course when a potential future star player leaves ... you're going to have some upset fans. And, most coaches aren't on real strong job standing. A couple bad years and it's off to file for unemployment.

                                But, many D1 and D2 coaches have made it very clear that if you 'test the waters' ... you're doing it at your own risk. Your spot will likely be gone when/if you want to come back. Pitt football coach Pat Narduzzi said if you want to 'test the waters' it shows him you don't want to be there and you can pack your bags.

                                Just yesterday, senior-to-be star running back Garret Owens announced he's leaving Mercyhurst and headed to (very low level D1) Duquesne for his senior season. Now, if your a Lakers fan ... and your program invested three years already in the kid ... not going to be very happy. It's also 'very' heavily rumored Notre Dame (OH) star RB will not be back in the D2 ranks. Prior to last year, Edinboro lost its senior-to-be All-American RB in a transfer to Ball State.

                                Players can do what's best for themselves. So can programs and coaches.

                                My fear as a true (rare) fan of the D2 level ... is this becomes the new norm. Luckily this trend hasn't hit Indiana yet but it surely could have. Joe's been extremely lucky all of his stars have stayed in Indiana. John Calipari said last year that Cobo Diaz could have not only played but started for many schools in the SEC.

                                I guess if you have stars ... enjoy them while you have them. It may only be one season.

                                Comment

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