Portal Season '24

[bballfan03]

One fluke win... no thanks!

All it takes is one fluke win! We will all remember FDU upsetting Purdue and FAUs run... even Gannon fans won't remember the name of the team Gannon lost to in E8 come fall.

[EyeoftheHawk]

Athletics is marketing for the university. For Division I schools, getting to the NCAA Tournament is a way to effectively market the university. Playing guarantee games for a $100,000 check is marketing the university. Case in point- what is better marketing for Oakland- being a perennial power in Division II? Or upsetting Kentucky in the NCAA Tournament?

From what I understand, IUP doesn’t have the resources to commit to Division I. But you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think the marketing reach of IUP Athletics would be vastly different in low Division I versus high Division II. Now, is it worth the financial investment required? Would it help enrollment? I don’t know that to be the case, but I can see why in an ever changing higher education landscape, schools are willing to roll the dice. There’s an investment necessary to be a high level Division II program, and without the financial windfall and ancillary benefits even being a low Division I school provides, it’s hard to justify that type of investment.

I agree with most of this, but I don’t know that the marketing reach is vastly different (better) by going low level D1 for most schools. We remember the rare few instances when a low level D1 makes a splash, but the odds of doing that (making the Dance and getting an upset or pulling an Appalachian State over Michigan football upset) are astronomically small and not something worth betting on. I think you’re saying that in your last sentence…it’s just too much of a gamble.

A few upset examples were given in this thread but think about the hundreds of other low level D1 schools that never got a sniff at that. They had “ho hum” seasons and nobody ever heard of them. That’s the gamble. For Mercyhurst, I assume they’re hoping for that shot. The odds are against it happening unless they start pouring scads of money into the athletic department. That’s why I think many of the schools would be better in D2 where the costs are much lower and they’re getting similar exposure, which is not much.

Sadly, I believe the majority of these decisions are being led by people who want to put it on their resume. Politics over practicality.

[IUP24]

I agree with most of this, but I don’t know that the marketing reach is vastly different (better) by going low level D1 for most schools. We remember the rare few instances when a low level D1 makes a splash, but the odds of doing that (making the Dance and getting an upset or pulling an Appalachian State over Michigan football upset) are astronomically small and not something worth betting on. I think you’re saying that in your last sentence…it’s just too much of a gamble.

A few upset examples were given in this thread but think about the hundreds of other low level D1 schools that never got a sniff at that. They had “ho hum” seasons and nobody ever heard of them. That’s the gamble. For Mercyhurst, I assume they’re hoping for that shot. The odds are against it happening unless they start pouring scads of money into the athletic department. That’s why I think many of the schools would be better in D2 where the costs are much lower and they’re getting similar exposure, which is not much.

Sadly, I believe the majority of these decisions are being led by people who want to put it on their resume. Politics over practicality.

I agree with this. Pragmatically you are correct from a financial perspective as you look at costs associated with D2 versus D1.

At a macro level, I do think there's a slow shift happening where schools are identifying that they have a better opportunity to win in basketball than in football. 85 scholarships versus 13. Enough said. And there's far more randomness to that tournament. How that plays out in the long run of college sports remains to be seen. To your point, pulling the upset or making the actual deep tournament run for a school like Mercyhurst, Bellarmine, Southern Indiana, etc., is extremely low. But for schools in major conferences, I believe we are going to soon reach a state of apathy (to a point) amongst many fanbases and athletic departments pertaining to football. It's clear what the end goal is from the networks and the kingpins of the two major conferences. If you aren't one of those 30 teams, your football program can kick rocks. So I think you'll start seeing schools pump a ton of money into basketball.

Since 2015, these are some of the schools who have made a Final Four run... Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, Oregon, Loyola-Chicago, Texas Tech, Auburn, Baylor, Houston, San Diego State, Miami, Florida Atlantic, Alabama... None of those schools would qualify as a "basketball school."

Greater than 90% of FBS football teams have zero shot to ever realistically win a national championship under the existing model and landscape. But that chance exists in basketball - for now at least.

[Ship69]

I agree with this. Pragmatically you are correct from a financial perspective as you look at costs associated with D2 versus D1.

At a macro level, I do think there's a slow shift happening where schools are identifying that they have a better opportunity to win in basketball than in football. 85 scholarships versus 13. Enough said. And there's far more randomness to that tournament. How that plays out in the long run of college sports remains to be seen. To your point, pulling the upset or making the actual deep tournament run for a school like Mercyhurst, Bellarmine, Southern Indiana, etc., is extremely low. But for schools in major conferences, I believe we are going to soon reach a state of apathy (to a point) amongst many fanbases and athletic departments pertaining to football. It's clear what the end goal is from the networks and the kingpins of the two major conferences. If you aren't one of those 30 teams, your football program can kick rocks. So I think you'll start seeing schools pump a ton of money into basketball.

Since 2015, these are some of the schools who have made a Final Four run... Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, Oregon, Loyola-Chicago, Texas Tech, Auburn, Baylor, Houston, San Diego State, Miami, Florida Atlantic, Alabama... None of those schools would qualify as a "basketball school."

Greater than 90% of FBS football teams have zero shot to ever realistically win a national championship under the existing model and landscape. But that chance exists in basketball - for now at least.

While Houston and Oklahoma might not have had the sustained excellence of a program such as Duke or Kentucky, they have been excellent programs over the years. Houston has had far more success in basketball than in football. Loyola is a basketball school, but doesn't have the resources to consistently compete with the P5 powers.

[IUP24]

While Houston and Oklahoma might not have had the sustained excellence of a program such as Duke or Kentucky, they have been excellent programs over the years. Houston has had far more success in basketball than in football. Loyola is a basketball school, but doesn't have the resources to consistently compete with the P5 powers.

You're missing the point. None of those schools are blue blood basketball programs. Nobody thinks "Houston" or "Oklahoma" when they think of college basketball. Dayton and Xavier are "basketball schools" too. There are plenty of good basketball programs. There are only a couple Duke or Kentucky type programs. That said, far more universities have the ability to invest funds into that sport to be "a very good basketball program." What's the investment end game in football now? Hope to reach the CFP to lose to Ohio State, who reportedly just spent 34 million dollars on a roster?

It's realistic in to be good in basketball and have a real shot in basketball. Not in football. And schools - and fanbases - are starting to figure that out.

The crux of the discussion overall is that many of these schools are moving up, paying more, and taking a risk to have an opportunity to gain national buzz by reaching the tournament and hoping they pull the 1% upset. I think there's more to it than that, obviously. But people are starting to realize that football is soon going to be a losing battle for everyone other than 30 schools.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I would guess if KJ McClurg was going up, he'd have been signed already.

If he stays in D2, the leading candidates (per the rumor mill) are IUP and West Liberty. Gannon is also allegedly making a big push.

I'm surprised this is taking so long.

[EyeoftheHawk]

I would guess if KJ McClurg was going up, he'd have been signed already.

If he stays in D2, the leading candidates (per the rumor mill) are IUP and West Liberty. Gannon is also allegedly making a big push.

I'm surprised this is taking so long.

If he stays in D2 he has some tough choices because anyone would want him, even beyond the three schools mentioned. He might be holding out hope for the right D1 and if it doesn’t happen he has some pretty good places to fall back to. To your point though, you’d think he’d want to get it settled sooner than later.

[Ship69]

You're missing the point. None of those schools are blue blood basketball programs. Nobody thinks "Houston" or "Oklahoma" when they think of college basketball. Dayton and Xavier are "basketball schools" too. There are plenty of good basketball programs. There are only a couple Duke or Kentucky type programs. That said, far more universities have the ability to invest funds into that sport to be "a very good basketball program." What's the investment end game in football now? Hope to reach the CFP to lose to Ohio State, who reportedly just spent 34 million dollars on a roster?

It's realistic in to be good in basketball and have a real shot in basketball. Not in football. And schools - and fanbases - are starting to figure that out.

The crux of the discussion overall is that many of these schools are moving up, paying more, and taking a risk to have an opportunity to gain national buzz by reaching the tournament and hoping they pull the 1% upset. I think there's more to it than that, obviously. But people are starting to realize that football is soon going to be a losing battle for everyone other than 30 schools.

I think people were certainly thinking of Houston when they were a top seed going into the tournament this year. Duke and Kentucky have great program histories, but for the last few years they've been good, but not great programs. Kentucky last won a title in 2012, and Calipari fled for the hills of Arkansas this year Next year will be 10 years since Duke last won, and the Jon Scheyer teams do not terrorize their opponents in the same way that the best Coach K teams did. Both schools still get exceptional talent, but in some cases that actually works against them as they get more of the players that tend to be "one and done" than most other schools. Your original post said nothing about "blue blood" programs. You said Houston did not qualify as a "basketball" school, and I disagree. That's a good program and has been very good at times in the past as well.

[IUP24]

I think people were certainly thinking of Houston when they were a top seed going into the tournament this year. Duke and Kentucky have great program histories, but for the last few years they've been good, but not great programs. Kentucky last won a title in 2012, and Calipari fled for the hills of Arkansas this year Next year will be 10 years since Duke last won, and the Jon Scheyer teams do not terrorize their opponents in the same way that the best Coach K teams did. Both schools still get exceptional talent, but in some cases that actually works against them as they get more of the players that tend to be "one and done" than most other schools. Your original post said nothing about "blue blood" programs. You said Houston did not qualify as a "basketball" school, and I disagree. That's a good program and has been very good at times in the past as well.

I think you have really misunderstood or misinterpreted the conversation and my post. Pounding the table about Houston becoming a program who has become pretty good over the last few years is exactly the point of what I’m trying to convey. It’s more realistic for a program to become really good in basketball than it is in football. Whether Houston is a blue blood is irrelevant. They weren’t always this good, but they’ve developed and sustained success of late. And them being a number one seed is kind of my point. Different schools other than Duke or Kentucky are top seeds and go to the Final Four. The parity in basketball is never going to exist in college football. The same cluster of teams will make the CFP every year. And one of them will likely win it.

My opinion, again, is that schools are seeing the realistic pathway to athletic success on a big stage to be through basketball, not football. So instead of competing in the football arms race, they’ll invest into basketball. And the D2 schools moving up (which is where this discussion started) are forgetting about football in the big picture, and really just hoping for the shot to hear their name called on selection Sunday.

You are welcomed to disagree with that 2nd paragraph. But I never had any intentions on debating who we classify as blue bloods in college basketball.

[Ship69]

I think you have really misunderstood or misinterpreted the conversation and my post. Pounding the table about Houston becoming a program who has become pretty good over the last few years is exactly the point of what I’m trying to convey. It’s more realistic for a program to become really good in basketball than it is in football. Whether Houston is a blue blood is irrelevant. They weren’t always this good, but they’ve developed and sustained success of late. And them being a number one seed is kind of my point. Different schools other than Duke or Kentucky are top seeds and go to the Final Four. The parity in basketball is never going to exist in college football. The same cluster of teams will make the CFP every year. And one of them will likely win it.

My opinion, again, is that schools are seeing the realistic pathway to athletic success on a big stage to be through basketball, not football. So instead of competing in the football arms race, they’ll invest into basketball. And the D2 schools moving up (which is where this discussion started) are forgetting about football in the big picture, and really just hoping for the shot to hear their name called on selection Sunday.

You are welcomed to disagree with that 2nd paragraph. But I never had any intentions on debating who we classify as blue bloods in college basketball.

I'm think maybe you misunderstand, too. I'm not arguing that basketball isn't a better pathway for most schools than football. This isn't the first time Houston has been good. Maybe you've heard of Elvin Hayes, Phi Slamma Jamma, etc., maybe not. Houston is a good basketball program. They had about 30 years of success under Guy Lewis, slipped back under the two guys that followed him, and now have had several years of success with Sampson. They have been to six final fours and have a 40-30 record in the NCAA tournament. The program's all-time winning percentage is .610.

[hawks16]

Cal U's KJ McClurg commits to DI Longwood of the Big South. Made the tournament in 2022 and 2024 (lost 86-46 as a #16 this year to Houston)

[EyeoftheHawk]

Cal U's KJ McClurg commits to DI Longwood of the Big South. Made the tournament in 2022 and 2024 (lost 86-46 as a #16 this year to Houston)

What on Earth would make him want to go there?! I hope it wasn’t just for the chance to make the Big Dance just to get obliterated. Head scratcher.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

What on Earth would make him want to go there?! I hope it wasn’t just for the chance to make the Big Dance just to get obliterated. Head scratcher.

Maybe IUP can get him as a grad transfer next year.

[Fightingscot82]

What on Earth would make him want to go there?! I hope it wasn’t just for the chance to make the Big Dance just to get obliterated. Head scratcher.

You've never dreamed of living in Farmville, Virginia? But really it's his best D1 offer. Now he gets to claim that for life.

[Scrub]

You've never dreamed of living in Farmville, Virginia? But really it's his best D1 offer. Now he gets to claim that for life.

He can already claim it. He played at a bad D1 program as a Freshman if I recall correctly.