PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Horror Child]

Two big things driving this for IUP: only charging per-credit tuition (no flat rate for full time) and increased housing/dining costs. The tuition model hurts students who take 15-18 credits per semester (funny because you need to earn 15/semester to graduate in 4 years) and limited writing on it suggests it doesn't really change student scheduling behavior. Until now it probably helped put off some cuts and layoffs. IUP has also heavily invested in housing and dining facilities - traditionally those costs are pushed back on students by increasing fees.

I'm trying to think back on who it was on here that used to gloat that "West Chester is wAy behind IUP in the on campus housing replacement"

[Bart]

The two universities doing the best, are the least expensive. Location probably is the bigger influence. Otherwise it's a draw, with the mergers affecting three universities above the average cost and three below.

[iupgroundhog]

That's interesting. So, I guess the question is whether IUP can realign itself to the rest of the system cost-wise. Is there a reason IUP can't lower costs?

See question above. What I'm asking is whether IUP can lower their costs of attendance and gain enrollment as a result. For example, based on the info above, if they decreased costs by ~10% and it resulted in a 10% enrollment increase they would be at the same place. If it resulted in more than 10% they would be better off. So, it would seem that they have room to cut costs. Then we would know if price sensitivity is the cause of dropping enrollment.

[Fightingscot82]

Two big things driving this for IUP: only charging per-credit tuition (no flat rate for full time) and increased housing/dining costs. The tuition model hurts students who take 15-18 credits per semester (funny because you need to earn 15/semester to graduate in 4 years) and limited writing on it suggests it doesn't really change student scheduling behavior. Until now it probably helped put off some cuts and layoffs. IUP has also heavily invested in housing and dining facilities - traditionally those costs are pushed back on students by increasing fees.

[iupgroundhog]

That's interesting. So, I guess the question is whether IUP can realign itself to the rest of the system cost-wise. Is there a reason IUP can't lower costs?

[Fightingscot82]

Here's one reason IUP is struggling. Check out the two cheapest PASSHE schools.

[IUPNation]

It places greater emphasis on their high school transcript. Its meant to reduce the cost to applicants. High school GPA is a more reliable metric for predicting student success than SAT score. Kids from lower income communities (rural & urban) also have less access to SAT prep or retaking the exam to achieve a high score. I was a B student in high school who did well on the SAT. My wife was an A student in high school who did very poorly on the SAT. One of us went to an upper middle class suburban high school, the other a small town high school. I took the PSAT and the SAT twice. If I wanted to I could have taken SAT prep courses after school. My wife's high school didn't give the PSAT and there was just one SAT date - the morning after a playoff basketball game and she was a cheerleader.

[Fightingscot82]

Yes, that is part of it. But the SATs were re-calibrated since the last huge classes 10-15 years ago. So, it might not seems as if they lowered test score requirements, but they didn't raise them to account for the score inflation that has taken place. bottom line is that more kids are qualified to get into Pitt/PSU. Also, some programs at these schools, particularly science programs have higher standards than the basic entrance score requirement, because of the competitive admissions. once there were fewer students, lower performing students were now qualified.

Students are better prepared for the SAT than ever before. The last couple generations were brought up on standardized testing and a lot of schools within the last 20 years started incorporating SAT prep into their curriculum. When the SAT flirted with a written exam, students still did as predicted based on where they attended. Average score is up ~50 points from the 90s.

[ironmaniup]

My interpretation of schools going test-optional is that it is the same thing as accepting applicants with lower test scores.

As I understand it, the idea behind it is to maintain enrollment. If that is the case, yes, there would be a trickle-down effect.

I believe IUP is test-optional right now. I don't know if it's permanent. However, if the "new PASSHE" dives into the area of workforce development tests will be less significant.

Yes, that is part of it. But the SATs were re-calibrated since the last huge classes 10-15 years ago. So, it might not seems as if they lowered test score requirements, but they didn't raise them to account for the score inflation that has taken place. bottom line is that more kids are qualified to get into Pitt/PSU. Also, some programs at these schools, particularly science programs have higher standards than the basic entrance score requirement, because of the competitive admissions. once there were fewer students, lower performing students were now qualified.

[Fightingscot82]

My interpretation of schools going test-optional is that it is the same thing as accepting applicants with lower test scores.

As I understand it, the idea behind it is to maintain enrollment. If that is the case, yes, there would be a trickle-down effect.

I believe IUP is test-optional right now. I don't know if it's permanent. However, if the "new PASSHE" dives into the area of workforce development tests will be less significant.

It places greater emphasis on their high school transcript. Its meant to reduce the cost to applicants. High school GPA is a more reliable metric for predicting student success than SAT score. Kids from lower income communities (rural & urban) also have less access to SAT prep or retaking the exam to achieve a high score. I was a B student in high school who did well on the SAT. My wife was an A student in high school who did very poorly on the SAT. One of us went to an upper middle class suburban high school, the other a small town high school. I took the PSAT and the SAT twice. If I wanted to I could have taken SAT prep courses after school. My wife's high school didn't give the PSAT and there was just one SAT date - the morning after a playoff basketball game and she was a cheerleader.

[Fightingscot82]

So before this Chancellor, PASSHE had a study of the system...and some of the recommendations were exactly that. That PASSHE partner up with a Pitt/PSU/ or one of the other schools like that. Temple? Villanova?

That said, I don't know how the logistics work. There are Pitts and Penn States everywhere. Maybe that's the trick. Where those schools are, bring in a Temple or Villanova?

There were two studies, one commissioned by PASSHE and another by the legislature. The PASSHE study (by a higher ed agency) recommended increasing access and finding ways to lower cost. The legislature study (done by Rand) recommended that PASSHE schools be absorbed by Penn State, Pitt, Temple, and Lincoln. The problem with that second study's recommendations is that those schools aren't looking to expand their reach. It is my understanding as a career higher ed person that only half of the Pitt branches and only a handful of Penn State campuses are operating in the black. By 2025 I bet both schools close a couple outlet shops.

[iupgroundhog]

That's news to me and to a friend who is an administrator in that area of Pitt. Pitt did a new program for Pell qualifiers that brings their cost down into PASSHE territory. That hurts but could be temporary. Penn State is greatly leaning on out of state students - especially those from the Atlantic corridor who can afford to pay the nearly $50k/year cost of attendance for out of state students. I bet they'll start closing some of the underperforming "outlet store" campuses like Shenango.

Maybe you're thinking of Pitt going test-optional?

My interpretation of schools going test-optional is that it is the same thing as accepting applicants with lower test scores.

As I understand it, the idea behind it is to maintain enrollment. If that is the case, yes, there would be a trickle-down effect.

I believe IUP is test-optional right now. I don't know if it's permanent. However, if the "new PASSHE" dives into the area of workforce development tests will be less significant.

[complaint_hopeful]

It's behind a paywall, but I wish I could show you all the Gartner quadrants for colleges. It ties in with a lot of these discussions. Like there's one for prestigious schools. They can charge whatever and people will go. 4 categories. Now schools can kind of straddle 2 categories sometimes.

The PASSHE Schools are arguably in the worst one to be in. And while the demographics in PA shrink, the amount of students considering schools in that quadrant is also shrinking. It's kind of the perfect storm.

But, then when a Penn State or Pitt, who are in a different quadrant...lower their prices. It takes students from us.

[Fightingscot82]

The downside is that now Pitt and PennState are taking kids with lower SATs , that would have gone to IUP - those 1150 kids who are really hard workers are not going to IUP in droves any more. Then there is the branches that offer the R1 name. But the Science building is long over due, and will definitely help recruiting. The other problem is Science programs are expensive, and rarely make money, its more the ancillary preprofessional programs like premed, pre PT, etc that foot the bill. And IUP's total costs are too high compared to other passhe schools that have already went after easy access to health programs as a selling point.

That's news to me and to a friend who is an administrator in that area of Pitt. Pitt did a new program for Pell qualifiers that brings their cost down into PASSHE territory. That hurts but could be temporary. Penn State is greatly leaning on out of state students - especially those from the Atlantic corridor who can afford to pay the nearly $50k/year cost of attendance for out of state students. I bet they'll start closing some of the underperforming "outlet store" campuses like Shenango.

Maybe you're thinking of Pitt going test-optional?

[complaint_hopeful]

The current science building was becoming the eyesore of campus, so this is a big improvement. I assume it will come down shortly after this new building is opened.

I've heard the old Foster Dining Hall is getting ready for the wrecking ball. I'll be interested to see what they do with that space. That's a prime spot on campus.

Pitt and PSU dropping admissions standards is not a good thing for our schools. You just have to wonder if eventually Pitt and PSU take over the entire system ... Penn State-Indiana ... Pitt-Slippery Rock, etc.

So before this Chancellor, PASSHE had a study of the system...and some of the recommendations were exactly that. That PASSHE partner up with a Pitt/PSU/ or one of the other schools like that. Temple? Villanova?

That said, I don't know how the logistics work. There are Pitts and Penn States everywhere. Maybe that's the trick. Where those schools are, bring in a Temple or Villanova?