PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

Just a quick review of Roae's statements and voting record, seems he is not in favor of increasing taxes to provide additional funds for public schools. If my quick review is correct, that's quite a bit different than being against public funding of schools. If the BOG is really uninterested in doing anything to improve the plight of the PASSHE, nothing is forcing them to make any changes.

No, that's incorrect. He is part of the movement, or at least a tentacle of the movement, to defund public education in PA. Of course, it could be wrongly viewed as fiscal restraint but it has its roots with evangelicals who essentially want all education to be religious-based and/or privately funded. As outrageous as that seems, it is a real thing in PA.

[Fightingscot82]

Just a quick review of Roae's statements and voting record, seems he is not in favor of increasing taxes to provide additional funds for public schools. If my quick review is correct, that's quite a bit different than being against public funding of schools. If the BOG is really uninterested in doing anything to improve the plight of the PASSHE, nothing is forcing them to make any changes.

He's made public comments that he doesn't support tax dollars supporting public education. Given where he lives, I assume the only option for his kids is public school. He attended Gannon. Roae was appointed by former PA House speaker Mike Turzai, who appointed himself before resigning from politics to take a high paying corporate gig. Both are typical pols who vocally criticize spending but once elected do very little to identify the waste and inefficiency that got them elected other than being a lock to vote against any raises to taxes/tuition.

I think the board is made up of politicians and political power players who wish to be good soldiers so they can move up the food chain. Like I said, not there because they have a passion for the mission of PASSHE. If I'm incorrect in that, I've never heard or seen one of them say so.

[boatcapt]

I don't think they really care. If the BOG members aren't legislators, they're appointed by the Governor. For the most part, they aren't there because they care about the mission of PASSHE. I know that one member (Brad Roae) is against public funding of schools. I don't know how that helps.

Just a quick review of Roae's statements and voting record, seems he is not in favor of increasing taxes to provide additional funds for public schools. If my quick review is correct, that's quite a bit different than being against public funding of schools. If the BOG is really uninterested in doing anything to improve the plight of the PASSHE, nothing is forcing them to make any changes.

[Fightingscot82]

I think the PASSHE BOG is on a serious clock. They had three years to implament changes without legislative approval. I think they want to have all changes 100% in place by the time the law sunsets for fear that the legislature will stop any changes that are not fully in-place when the authority reverts. AND I think beyond that, they want to impliment their changes in time to show that they are achieving the desired results.

I don't think they really care. If the BOG members aren't legislators, they're appointed by the Governor. For the most part, they aren't there because they care about the mission of PASSHE. I know that one member (Brad Roae) is against public funding of schools. I don't know how that helps.

[boatcapt]

Seriously, though, I think it's premature to ask these questions. These questions might become relevant in the future, i.e. maybe in 2-3 years but right now I think the focus is on trying to "right-size" things at LHU and Mansfield and become more fiscally viable. They aren't going to be that integrated during the 2021-22 academic year, although the current scenario did develop really fast.

Plus, this model is going to hit all of the member schools so the 3 schools shouldn't feel too special.

I think the PASSHE BOG is on a serious clock. They had three years to implament changes without legislative approval. I think they want to have all changes 100% in place by the time the law sunsets for fear that the legislature will stop any changes that are not fully in-place when the authority reverts. AND I think beyond that, they want to impliment their changes in time to show that they are achieving the desired results.

[ironmaniup]

Seriously, though, I think it's premature to ask these questions. These questions might become relevant in the future, i.e. maybe in 2-3 years but right now I think the focus is on trying to "right-size" things at LHU and Mansfield and become more fiscally viable. They aren't going to be that integrated during the 2021-22 academic year, although the current scenario did develop really fast.

Plus, this model is going to hit all of the member schools so the 3 schools shouldn't feel too special.

One of the things "merger" does, is it provides a way for upperclass students to finish up despite cutting programs and faculty. One of the biggest arguments against cutting back is what to do with current students. By having the merger, that argument against cutting goes away. In the end I think it ends with Bloom getting many of the students that would have gone to LHU or Mansfield.

[CALUPA69]

Rare short answer from me: no.

Noted .

[Fightingscot82]

I have heard that several PASSHE schools, specifically IUP, have some ultra successful alums. Does anyone think that as the process proceeds it would be in any way imaginable that a package of funding could be accrued that would allow one or more of the schools to go private? I seem to recall Dr Armenti discussing this and vaguely remember that CAL U may have had a package tentatively arranged. Or I may just be too old.

Rare short answer from me: no.

[Bart]

Plus, this model is going to hit all of the member schools so the 3 schools shouldn't feel too special.

Who wants to be the guinea pig? If it's going to hit everywhere, more people should be trying to stop it. First they came for you.......Then they came for me. And there was no one left To speak out for me

[CALUPA69]

Seriously, though, I think it's premature to ask these questions. These questions might become relevant in the future, i.e. maybe in 2-3 years but right now I think the focus is on trying to "right-size" things at LHU and Mansfield and become more fiscally viable. They aren't going to be that integrated during the 2021-22 academic year, although the current scenario did develop really fast.

Plus, this model is going to hit all of the member schools so the 3 schools shouldn't feel too special.

I have heard that several PASSHE schools, specifically IUP, have some ultra successful alums. Does anyone think that as the process proceeds it would be in any way imaginable that a package of funding could be accrued that would allow one or more of the schools to go private? I seem to recall Dr Armenti discussing this and vaguely remember that CAL U may have had a package tentatively arranged. Or I may just be too old.

[iupgroundhog]

There is another question there. Does it end up being one athletic fundraising arm for all three? What happens with endowed scholarships should a school give up a sport? Bloom received a gift of 10 million dollars this year, do they have to share? Students receive free admission to athletic events, I believe partly because some student fees are approved by student government for certain athletic related events, such as supporting coaches to travel to conferences. What happens now?

Another question, does state appropriation get cut equally among the three schools by the assigned school leadership? If Bloom has twice as many students as the other two combined, who gets the student paid tuition dollars? Do they get split among the three or do the dollars follow the student to the school they go too? (like Republicans have been pushing for elementary and h.s.)

I don't want to support another school's athletic program with my donation, like LHU wrestling. No offense. I think schools could lose the support of their alumni.

Seriously, though, I think it's premature to ask these questions. These questions might become relevant in the future, i.e. maybe in 2-3 years but right now I think the focus is on trying to "right-size" things at LHU and Mansfield and become more fiscally viable. They aren't going to be that integrated during the 2021-22 academic year, although the current scenario did develop really fast.

Plus, this model is going to hit all of the member schools so the 3 schools shouldn't feel too special.

[iupgroundhog]

There is another question there. Does it end up being one athletic fundraising arm for all three? What happens with endowed scholarships should a school give up a sport? Bloom received a gift of 10 million dollars this year, do they have to share? Students receive free admission to athletic events, I believe partly because some student fees are approved by student government for certain athletic related events, such as supporting coaches to travel to conferences. What happens now?

Another question, does state appropriation get cut equally among the three schools by the assigned school leadership? If Bloom has twice as many students as the other two combined, who gets the student paid tuition dollars? Do they get split among the three or do the dollars follow the student to the school they go too? (like Republicans have been pushing for elementary and h.s.)

I don't want to support another school's athletic program with my donation, like LHU wrestling. No offense. I think schools could lose the support of their alumni.

Don't worry. They know what they're doing.

[Bart]

You're probably correct. None of that stuff bothers me so long as LHU can stay in the top 25 of D1 wrestling. I would add an "lol" except that I'm serious.

There is another question there. Does it end up being one athletic fundraising arm for all three? What happens with endowed scholarships should a school give up a sport? Bloom received a gift of 10 million dollars this year, do they have to share? Students receive free admission to athletic events, I believe partly because some student fees are approved by student government for certain athletic related events, such as supporting coaches to travel to conferences. What happens now?

Another question, does state appropriation get cut equally among the three schools by the assigned school leadership? If Bloom has twice as many students as the other two combined, who gets the student paid tuition dollars? Do they get split among the three or do the dollars follow the student to the school they go too? (like Republicans have been pushing for elementary and h.s.)

I don't want to support another school's athletic program with my donation, like LHU wrestling. No offense. I think schools could lose the support of their alumni.

[iupgroundhog]

Well we certainly don't want to repeat the mistake IUP made back in 1983. Bloom would have to consider LHU and Mansfield in any decision they make going forward, which doesn't seem to help the campus community. There may be a unified leadership team, a single academic program array, a unified enrollment management strategy, a unified budget, etc.. It could mean a loss of freedom to run their own house.

There is a reason why LHU and Mansfield combined enrollment is about half of Bloom. Most students in the state go to a state school within 75 miles of their home. Bloom is the exception in this threesome, as there is a large population from Philadelphia and its neighboring counties. They didn't choose to take classes at LHU or Mansfield.

I understand Bloom has led consolidation efforts for years. BU's human resource department provides services to Mansfield already,. Bloom also provides procurement and purchasing services for a number of the other state schools. The more you do, the more is expected from you. I think it holds back and waters down Bloom.

You're probably correct. None of that stuff bothers me so long as LHU can stay in the top 25 of D1 wrestling. I would add an "lol" except that I'm serious.

[Bart]

Bart, I am surprised by your reaction against the Bloom/LHU/Mansfield alliance. You seem to believe that Bloom is getting screwed in the deal.

I see it as a perfectly sensible, even inevitable, progression given the PASSHE plan, overall. Furthermore, I don't see Bloom losing identity or status with it. Bloom might even gain status as a result if it is seen as being the dominant player among the three.

In this arrangement, Mansfield is losing a lot, LH is next, and Bloom so far isn't losing much.

But this kind of parochialism can't get in the way of the plan. Territorialism will only hold the system back.

In fact, this isn't anything new. The schools have been tied together as one system since 1983. When PASSHE was formed, it was IUP that lost a degree of distinctiveness. The rest did not, including Bloom. In fact, the rest of the system gained. We have lived with that for 37 years. I thought then, and I still do now, that IUP should have gone the state-related route. Of course, they didn't.

At this point, I think we have to look at what is good for the system as a whole. None of the schools can stand on their own, with the exception of perhaps West Chester.

They are making a big deal of the % enrollment declines for LHU and Mansfield. However, these are small numbers. The bigger problems are at bigger schools that have lost large percentages, albeit not as large percentage-wise as LHU and Mansfield. Think IUP, Ship, Cal, Boro, and Clarion.

The eastern schools like Bloom, Ville, and ESU may have only lost ~ 15% of enrollment, as compared to 25-35% elsewhere; however, they are not in good shape. It's likely another 15% is coming.

BTW, Kutztown's situation is similar to the western schools. Not sure what happened there.

Well we certainly don't want to repeat the mistake IUP made back in 1983. Bloom would have to consider LHU and Mansfield in any decision they make going forward, which doesn't seem to help the campus community. There may be a unified leadership team, a single academic program array, a unified enrollment management strategy, a unified budget, etc.. It could mean a loss of freedom to run their own house.

There is a reason why LHU and Mansfield combined enrollment is about half of Bloom. Most students in the state go to a state school within 75 miles of their home. Bloom is the exception in this threesome, as there is a large population from Philadelphia and its neighboring counties. They didn't choose to take classes at LHU or Mansfield.

I understand Bloom has led consolidation efforts for years. BU's human resource department provides services to Mansfield already,. Bloom also provides procurement and purchasing services for a number of the other state schools. The more you do, the more is expected from you. I think it holds back and waters down Bloom.