PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Horror Child]

A balance is not student loan debt. That's how some headlines are reading.

But a balance is still debt that the student owes the institution, which became a lender by de facto.

Graduation rates aren't completion rates. It is the percentage of traditional age full time freshmen who graduate from the same school 4 or 6 years later. If you do 2 years at Mansfield then finish your last 2 at West Chester, you still count against Mansfield's graduation rate even though you completed in 4 years. It's a poor measurement of anything other than retention.

Student loan debt is also not extinguishable through bankruptcy. Default rates on student loans are still pretty low if you only look at traditional non-profit private and public. Same with average debt.

Why is that?

[complaint_hopeful]

That is BAFFLING to hear. I've said 30 times on here you need top salespeople in that admissions office. Sell the kids. Sell the parents. Sell grandma. Serve serious Crimson Koolaid. Whatever it takes.

It is sickening to hear a dying school still thinks it's 1999 and can just say complete the form.

Sounds like too much ego or ineptitude to me.

The mega online schools like SNHU do similar. They're setup so much different than the PASSHE schools.

You apply, for a small fee...they track down your transcript. They make it so easy to enroll. Then, some have teachers that teach the classes, but have questions on the class? Well that goes to another person to answer. (Yeah they figured out that while some professors are great at responding to email and maintaining office hours...that most aren't and built infrastructure around that.) They also have robust teaching and learning centers to help design classes. You don't just put an in person class online. You have to totally redesign and rebuild it to make it quality online.

Yeah...most of the PASSHE schools do a fraction of this. But, they complain when community colleges reach deals with these colleges.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

So kids need to be made to feel special? No wonder that campus is overloaded with self righteous blowhards.

I mean seriously the IUP campus blows Slimey away.The degree is better. But because the admissions office gives hugs and compliments they get the students. My god we are doomed in the future.

Hell yeah they want to feel special. So do their parents.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I've heard rumors from PASSHE friends that SRU has already leveled off and will be down again this fall like everyone else. BUT...I've heard dozens of times from families that their kid's experience in the admissions & enrollment process was astronomically better than the other PASSHE schools. A lot of them Edinboro alumni whose kids loved the campus and town but were treated like they were at the DMV. I had exactly four people tell me that IUP, Clarion, and Edinboro admissions were essentially "Fill out the form" where Slippery Rock were trying to convince them to enroll. I also have some friends who are PASSHE alumni working at SRU and they all say that there's a different attitude at Slip vs the others. Can do versus "ugh do I have to".

That is BAFFLING to hear. I've said 30 times on here you need top salespeople in that admissions office. Sell the kids. Sell the parents. Sell grandma. Serve serious Crimson Koolaid. Whatever it takes.

It is sickening to hear a dying school still thinks it's 1999 and can just say complete the form.

Sounds like too much ego or ineptitude to me.

[Ram040506]

So kids need to be made to feel special? No wonder that campus is overloaded with self righteous blowhards.

I mean seriously the IUP campus blows Slimey away.The degree is better. But because the admissions office gives hugs and compliments they get the students. My god we are doomed in the future.

Do you live under a rock? That's pretty much the entire playbook for how to woo today's youth. It's here to stay.

[IUPNation]

One guy compared it to athletic recruiting. Their kids felt like Slip wanted them. There are a lot of options at our end of the food chain. A lot. People tend to go where they're wanted.

Now I understand why this generation eats Tide Pods.

[complaint_hopeful]

One guy compared it to athletic recruiting. Their kids felt like Slip wanted them. There are a lot of options at our end of the food chain. A lot. People tend to go where they're wanted.

I've heard that before too. I recommended a student check out a certain PASSHE college and they went to some Christian School in Ohio. They told me that they didn't feel wanted at the college I sent them too, but the other school rolled out the red carpet.

As to the assertion that a degree from x college is better than a degree from y college within PASSHE...that's so subjective and dependent on the person doing comparing. The education quality could be better at PASSHE (hypothetically) but the Penn State degree has such a large brand behind it with millions of alumni out there. You apply for a job in PA, chances are greater that the person doing the hiring is from Penn State, or Pitt, or Temple, than like Clarion for instance.

But, to a high school student...it's hard to compare a college. And feeling wanted or having a good Admissions experience goes a long way. They assume that quality permeates throughout the school.

[Fightingscot82]

So kids need to be made to feel special? No wonder that campus is overloaded with self righteous blowhards.

I mean seriously the IUP campus blows Slimey away.The degree is better. But because the admissions office gives hugs and compliments they get the students. My god we are doomed in the future.

One guy compared it to athletic recruiting. Their kids felt like Slip wanted them. There are a lot of options at our end of the food chain. A lot. People tend to go where they're wanted.

[IUPNation]

I've heard rumors from PASSHE friends that SRU has already leveled off and will be down again this fall like everyone else. BUT...I've heard dozens of times from families that their kid's experience in the admissions & enrollment process was astronomically better than the other PASSHE schools. A lot of them Edinboro alumni whose kids loved the campus and town but were treated like they were at the DMV. I had exactly four people tell me that IUP, Clarion, and Edinboro admissions were essentially "Fill out the form" where Slippery Rock were trying to convince them to enroll. I also have some friends who are PASSHE alumni working at SRU and they all say that there's a different attitude at Slip vs the others. Can do versus "ugh do I have to".

So kids need to be made to feel special? No wonder that campus is overloaded with self righteous blowhards.

I mean seriously the IUP campus blows Slimey away.The degree is better. But because the admissions office gives hugs and compliments they get the students. My god we are doomed in the future.

[IUPNation]

IUP could be standalone because in theory its a research & grad intensive university. West Chester has size but also has quite a few grad programs. Slippery Rock is nailing so many aspects of recruitment & experience. I've been told that's the difference. From early interest to graduation students want to be there. If anything, that qualifies them to be the school whose management is assigned to fix the struggling schools, not be the hub campus.

[Fightingscot82]

Everybody wants to heap praise on SRU for having some mysterious "management strategy" that the other PASSHE schools just haven't been able to figure out. I think for SRU it's more like being in the right place at the right time. Also, I am not convinced their growth is sustainable.

By right place, I refer to location. As we've seen the Butler County area within about a 25-mile radius of SRU is essentially the only growth area in terms of population and in-migration in western PA. Exactly in the same way that population has benefitted West Chester it has benefitted SRU. Couple the demographics with the timing of SRU growing academic areas e.g. healthcare (with direct help from IUP, I might add), and SRU has grown consistently (but not by leaps and bounds).

What if they've experienced their growth spurt? I do think they've had effective marketing and growth management; however, it's the two factors, 1) local demographics, and 2) the timeliness of the expansion of their academic offerings, that fueled the growth.

It's been fortuitous for SRU but I don't necessarily think they have some management acumen that can be transferred to other schools by placing them under the SRU wing. In fact, I think SRU might be getting ahead of itself in terms of expectations.

I've heard rumors from PASSHE friends that SRU has already leveled off and will be down again this fall like everyone else. BUT...I've heard dozens of times from families that their kid's experience in the admissions & enrollment process was astronomically better than the other PASSHE schools. A lot of them Edinboro alumni whose kids loved the campus and town but were treated like they were at the DMV. I had exactly four people tell me that IUP, Clarion, and Edinboro admissions were essentially "Fill out the form" where Slippery Rock were trying to convince them to enroll. I also have some friends who are PASSHE alumni working at SRU and they all say that there's a different attitude at Slip vs the others. Can do versus "ugh do I have to".

[complaint_hopeful]

Everybody wants to heap praise on SRU for having some mysterious "management strategy" that the other PASSHE schools just haven't been able to figure out. I think for SRU it's more like being in the right place at the right time. Also, I am not convinced their growth is sustainable.

By right place, I refer to location. As we've seen the Butler County area within about a 25-mile radius of SRU is essentially the only growth area in terms of population and in-migration in western PA. Exactly in the same way that population has benefitted West Chester it has benefitted SRU. Couple the demographics with the timing of SRU growing academic areas e.g. healthcare (with direct help from IUP, I might add), and SRU has grown consistently (but not by leaps and bounds).

What if they've experienced their growth spurt? I do think they've had effective marketing and growth management; however, it's the two factors, 1) local demographics, and 2) the timeliness of the expansion of their academic offerings, that fueled the growth.

It's been fortuitous for SRU but I don't necessarily think they have some management acumen that can be transferred to other schools by placing them under the SRU wing. In fact, I think SRU might be getting ahead of itself in terms of expectations.

That's very possible. And when you're growing...you can afford marketing and more investment so it looks like those things are working more.

[iupgroundhog]

Bingo. The failing schools want to cite demographics. But, schools like SRU show that great strategy focused on experience can overcome that all. Most of these schools just don't get it.

Everybody wants to heap praise on SRU for having some mysterious "management strategy" that the other PASSHE schools just haven't been able to figure out. I think for SRU it's more like being in the right place at the right time. Also, I am not convinced their growth is sustainable.

By right place, I refer to location. As we've seen the Butler County area within about a 25-mile radius of SRU is essentially the only growth area in terms of population and in-migration in western PA. Exactly in the same way that population has benefitted West Chester it has benefitted SRU. Couple the demographics with the timing of SRU growing academic areas e.g. healthcare (with direct help from IUP, I might add), and SRU has grown consistently (but not by leaps and bounds).

What if they've experienced their growth spurt? I do think they've had effective marketing and growth management; however, it's the two factors, 1) local demographics, and 2) the timeliness of the expansion of their academic offerings, that fueled the growth.

It's been fortuitous for SRU but I don't necessarily think they have some management acumen that can be transferred to other schools by placing them under the SRU wing. In fact, I think SRU might be getting ahead of itself in terms of expectations.

[complaint_hopeful]

Penn State branches are struggling too. Behrend is their Slip & Harrisburg is their West Chester. One has all the it factor and the other has had explosive growth. But system-wide, the PSU Outlet Store campuses are down almost as much as PASSHE. They're mostly fighting for the same students but have a) some geographical advantage, and b) the mystique of the brand name degree.

Penn State has realized that they have 2-3 attractive branches but budget-wise know that its easier to recruit more students to University Park than to find more students for their branches.

So PASSHE complains that the schools doing well subsidize the rest. What if they adopted that model. Make West Chester/IUP/SRU the flagships. Invest money in growing them.

Use SRU's management and experience style to make some of the other campuses better. Then, reduce costs at other campuses by sharing classes.

[complaint_hopeful]

IUP could be standalone because in theory its a research & grad intensive university. West Chester has size but also has quite a few grad programs. Slippery Rock is nailing so many aspects of recruitment & experience. I've been told that's the difference. From early interest to graduation students want to be there. If anything, that qualifies them to be the school whose management is assigned to fix the struggling schools, not be the hub campus.

Bingo. The failing schools want to cite demographics. But, schools like SRU show that great strategy focused on experience can overcome that all. Most of these schools just don't get it.