PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

I'm referring to cutting athletics as a whole. That would likely cost Clarion several hundred students.

Cutting athletics outright at almost any college or university would be a significant blow. For everyone below P5, most of those students are tuition paying. When an academic program is eliminated, admissions stops accepting new students and existing students finish out then its truly eliminated when they all graduate. When you cut a sports team, athletic scholarships are honored through graduation but nearly all students transfer immediately taking their tuition dollars with them.

I can't find the article to confirm, but I remember reading that when Cheyney cut football, only 2 students remained the following fall.

[Fightingscot82]

Are you speculating about athletics not being cut or do you have an official source? Do you really believe that the systematic savings necessary to save the PASSHE can be achieved by consolidating some backroom functions, academic cooperation between some departments and selling a few facilities?

The plan clearly states that everything is on the back end and campuses won't close. This is already going on with West Chester and Cheyney coordinating administrative functions. Both schools continue to exist.

We don't know what the future holds. If enrollment continues to slide and expenses can't be further contained, yeah, I imagine we'll see proposals for additional measures. But right now its just collaborations.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

As they say, drastic times call for drastic measures. Enrollment has already been and continues to be crushed and the schools have failed to keep pace which is severly effecting their bottom line. Yes, most athletes do pay their own way and having athletics can be an effective part of an overall strategy to dig a school out of debt. But holding on to athletics just because a school has always had athletics is not a strategy. If a school is depending on the 68 full tuition paying football players to keep it afloat, that's a problem.

I'm referring to cutting athletics as a whole. That would likely cost Clarion several hundred students.

[boatcapt]

Double-edge sword. You cut athletics at outposts like Lock Haven, Clarion, Mansfield, etc., ... you might as well make funeral arrangements.

Those athletes likely transfer immediately ... crushing enrollment. Add to it most of them are paying their own way.

As they say, drastic times call for drastic measures. Enrollment has already been and continues to be crushed and the schools have failed to keep pace which is severly effecting their bottom line. Yes, most athletes do pay their own way and having athletics can be an effective part of an overall strategy to dig a school out of debt. But holding on to athletics just because a school has always had athletics is not a strategy. If a school is depending on the 68 full tuition paying football players to keep it afloat, that's a problem.

[CALUPA69]

IMO, looking long term PASSHE should strike a deal in writing that the legislature would be bound to maintain the current funding, plus COL increases, through '35 in exchange for the system eliminating, not merging, 1 western school and 3 eastern schools. My choices would be CLARION, MANSFIELD, LHU and CHEYNEY. Elimination in this case does not necessarily mean closing but getting them off the state budget. Merger with private institutions would be the preferred option and in the case of CHEYNEY I would really like to see the likes of JOBS, BEZOS, GATES and BLOOMBERG scrape up some couch change and endow CHEYNEY COLLEGE to the tune of $1B giving it a chance to stabilize and move forward as private, perhaps religiously backed, HBCU.
At the end of those 15 years the remaining 10 PASSHE schools would look backward and forward to determine if the system was ultimately viable.
Sports wise this would leave a relatively healthy 14 team league with 7 West-BORO, GU, MC, SRU, IUP, CAL, SHU and 7 East- ESU, BU, KUTZ, MILL, SHIP, WCU, SHEP. Obviously all bets are off if any of the NON schools decide to bail.
Trying to turn SRU/BORO and CAL/CLAR into anything useful strikes me as a total waste of time and money.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Some of the previous posters have observed that a number of the backroom functions have already been combined. If that is true, I wonder how much additional savings can be gleaned. The PASSHE BOG has a very narrow three year window to make the changes necessary to save the system. If the only thing they can do in that time frame is to combine some backroom functions and cut some faculty positions, I just don't think that will be enough. Clearly the legislature was incapable of making changes in the past so I doubt they will be capable of making any changes when they get the authority back in 3 years.

Clearly even posters on this board can't even speculate on shuttering athletics at the three most distressed schools in the system. If they can't even do that, what chance does the BOG have in making the real changes necessary to save the system?

Double-edge sword. You cut athletics at outposts like Lock Haven, Clarion, Mansfield, etc., ... you might as well make funeral arrangements.

Those athletes likely transfer immediately ... crushing enrollment. Add to it most of them are paying their own way.

[boatcapt]

Well, backroom functions and laying off some 15% of the faculty, that might. But I think this is the first hit, they will take a couple years and see what happens after covid/ faculty downsizing, and see where schools are at, then make further changes as they need.

Some of the previous posters have observed that a number of the backroom functions have already been combined. If that is true, I wonder how much additional savings can be gleaned. The PASSHE BOG has a very narrow three year window to make the changes necessary to save the system. If the only thing they can do in that time frame is to combine some backroom functions and cut some faculty positions, I just don't think that will be enough. Clearly the legislature was incapable of making changes in the past so I doubt they will be capable of making any changes when they get the authority back in 3 years.

Clearly even posters on this board can't even speculate on shuttering athletics at the three most distressed schools in the system. If they can't even do that, what chance does the BOG have in making the real changes necessary to save the system?

[ironmaniup]

Are you speculating about athletics not being cut or do you have an official source? Do you really believe that the systematic savings necessary to save the PASSHE can be achieved by consolidating some backroom functions, academic cooperation between some departments and selling a few facilities?

Well, backroom functions and laying off some 15% of the faculty, that might. But I think this is the first hit, they will take a couple years and see what happens after covid/ faculty downsizing, and see where schools are at, then make further changes as they need.

[boatcapt]

Well since they aren't merging, football won't be affected. Back office management functions are going to be consolidated and some academic departments will "cooperate" with the partner school. In each scenario, each school maintains its identity and campus.

Are you speculating about athletics not being cut or do you have an official source? Do you really believe that the systematic savings necessary to save the PASSHE can be achieved by consolidating some backroom functions, academic cooperation between some departments and selling a few facilities?

[Fightingscot82]

Assuming the six schools are the only ones merged, how would this effect the football conference alignment of the PSAC? For the sake of this discussion, assume that football continues at only one of the schools in each two school group. Since two of the three groups are in the PSAC West AND the one of the schools in the East doesn't sponsor football, that would result in a eight teams in the East and six teams in the West. Assuming no other schools leave or join the PSAC, how does the PSAC align for football?

Well since they aren't merging, football won't be affected. Back office management functions are going to be consolidated and some academic departments will "cooperate" with the partner school. In each scenario, each school maintains its identity and campus.

[boatcapt]

Assuming the six schools are the only ones merged, how would this effect the football conference alignment of the PSAC? For the sake of this discussion, assume that football continues at only one of the schools in each two school group. Since two of the three groups are in the PSAC West AND the one of the schools in the East doesn't sponsor football, that would result in a eight teams in the East and six teams in the West. Assuming no other schools leave or join the PSAC, how does the PSAC align for football?

[Fightingscot82]

Remote work for a campus can be great, especially jobs that aren't student facing. At one campus, it drove me nuts that the financial aid and student accounts offices were shoved in the basement while HR, accounting & operations, and the university lawyers occupied most of the building. Get them off campus!

This also allows the campus to reduce its footprint and possibly consolidate square footage, leading to decreased utility costs. The hidden cost of the campus building boom are the physical operating costs like utilities and custodial work. More parking lots to plow means less time to clear sidewalks.

[complaint_hopeful]

PA has more colleges, universities, and trade schools per capita than any other state (don't ask for the citation). And that's before students consider options in other states or using online delivery. One thing that really hurts PA is the sentiment that my tax dollars shouldn't pay for somebody else's education. That sentiment leads to resistance toward education spending - and state appropriation failing to keep up with expenses is PROVEN to have been the major contributing factor to rising tuition, not increased administration and campus construction.

PA also does stupid things like allow state funded Pitt and Penn State to develop residential 4-year campuses that compete directly with the state owned universities, or allow the state funded community colleges to collectively sign a transfer agreement with SNHU instead of with state owned universities.

Probably IF some of the Pitt and Penn State sub-campuses didn't exist...PASSHE would be sitting pretty. Those schools are everywhere! Some of the PASSHE schools may have 3-4 Pitt/Penn State's within 45-60 minutes of them and sometimes much less! Plus, people can live there as you said, so travel time doesn't matter as much.

[complaint_hopeful]

It looks like Purchasing is going to be the 1st shared service. There will be 2 Purchasing Groups for the state - East and West. Sounds like people won't lose their jobs and will keep the same pay. There were a lot of retirements so they likely just won't rehire for the savings.

Sounds like they'll have the option to work either physically on a campus, hybrid, or possibly remote. (The remote work possibility is something that some people love.)

It will be interesting to see how covid/remote work change our schools. There are lots of jobs that simply don't need to come on campus...and with that you need less space, electricity, heating and cooling, etc.

I know that Purchasing has been talked about as a potential shared service for many years. Kudos to the Chancellor's office for getting this done finally! Makes a lot of sense!

It's interesting that some schools will collaborate and work together in the 2 school configurations, but some services will also be shared at the state level like this. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out. But...progress!

[Fightingscot82]

Great points all around!

Sometimes I feel like there are just too many colleges in PA. But, then again competitors like SNHU, U of Phoenix, etc. all take a certain amount of students from PA. And then, layer that with tuition rates that are fairly high for a state school because of lower state funding. It's not that cost prohibitive to look at schools in other states and pay out-of-state rates when rates here are so high.

Higher Ed is just such a competitive market. And yes! The state budget definately needs rethought drastically!

PA has more colleges, universities, and trade schools per capita than any other state (don't ask for the citation). And that's before students consider options in other states or using online delivery. One thing that really hurts PA is the sentiment that my tax dollars shouldn't pay for somebody else's education. That sentiment leads to resistance toward education spending - and state appropriation failing to keep up with expenses is PROVEN to have been the major contributing factor to rising tuition, not increased administration and campus construction.

PA also does stupid things like allow state funded Pitt and Penn State to develop residential 4-year campuses that compete directly with the state owned universities, or allow the state funded community colleges to collectively sign a transfer agreement with SNHU instead of with state owned universities.