OT: PIAA Championships preview

[IUPalum]

Aliquippa is just hilarious-- from a reality standpoint.

This is one of the poorest towns in the state. But, all they do is win.

They are, enrollment-wise, a small 1A school. Yet, they voluntarily played up. That wasn't good enough. They volunteered to play from 1A to 3A ... yet they still got forced to go 4A.

Keep in mind this isn't some Catholic school. Nobody in their right mind would move to Aliquippa..

Yet, here they are in the 4A state finals -- with like 22 dudes DRESSED.

IMAGINE if they were allowed to play against schools their own size. They'd have won probably the past 25 1A state titles.

Yep, it's one of the poorest but yet there are a lot of top of the line cars being driven around those parts. I wonder how that's possible? hmmmmm

[TheBigCat2192]

Your better publics probably do too. Imhotep Charter is technically a public school in Philadelphia...they just can recruit the best players all over the city....and sometimes from outside the city...as long as they have a relative who lives in the city and they use their address to enroll.

You don’t even need look to a powerhouse public school or a city school to find examples of students transferring for athletics. When I played HS baseball our team picked up an already good player as a transfer from a neighboring district. The nominal reason for his changing schools was because we had a better FFA/ag program but the real reason was almost certainly because his old coach wouldn’t let him play the infield on days he wasn’t pitching.

[Ship69]

Yes. Absolutely. Nobody's going to say it's easy. It's hard to rise to new levels.

The word we aren't using is "impossible."

Not impossible, but highly improbable. McDevitt not playing in the upper division of the Mid-Penn borders on the absurd.

[IUPNation]

Not impossible, but highly improbable. McDevitt not playing in the upper division of the Mid-Penn borders on the absurd.

Any school the recruits gets put in 6A.

[EastStroud13]

All the debate about what to do about the privates within the existing system is just trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Rip off the band-aid and go to four public classes and two private classes. It would be better for everyone involved. You think SJP wants to play week after week of blowout victories when the privates in New Jersey have been done for weeks?

[EyeoftheHawk]

All the debate about what to do about the privates within the existing system is just trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Rip off the band-aid and go to four public classes and two private classes. It would be better for everyone involved. You think SJP wants to play week after week of blowout victories when the privates in New Jersey have been done for weeks?

Agree 100%. It’s fine to play in the regular season, but come playoff time they need to be split into separate tournaments. I know some will say, “Life’s not fair, yada, yada…” but when making it fair seems pretty simple, why wouldn’t you do it? I’m afraid that sports at every level are heading toward even more imbalance. Money, politics, and privilege. Stop me if you’ve heard this one before.

[IUPNation]

You put private in levels above their size if they recruit. There are sone public’s that have more money and have unfair advantages.

Every Catholic school isn’t on the same level. My Catholic High School that no longer exists could not compete in foosball with Norristown High. They grabbed every best player in the area and got kids in the Catholic grade schools to go there to play back in the day.

[EastStroud13]

You put private in levels above their size if they recruit. There are sone public’s that have more money and have unfair advantages.

Every Catholic school isn’t on the same level. My Catholic High School that no longer exists could not compete in foosball with Norristown High. They grabbed every best player in the area and got kids in the Catholic grade schools to go there to play back in the day.

That's why you have two classes of private schools rather than just one. Not only does it keep most of the competitive schools in the large division, but it opens up opportunities for competitive balancing that actually works for private schools, rather than the half-measure the PIAA has tried to incorporate to keep publics happy too.

[WarriorVoice]

You don't have to distinguish the Bishop McDevitt's any longer as the one in Wyncote, Montgomery County closed last spring at end of the school year.

The high school system of The Archdiocese of Philadelphia was built for the baby boomers when tuition was literally free...but several were merged or just closed outright.

I mean Cardinal Dougherty High School in the Olney section of Philadelphia was once the largest Catholic High School in the world in the 1960's and it's been closed for years now.

St. Joe's Prep is a private school and they just have the cash to recruit. They were a joke in foosball when I was in high school...total Catholic League nobodies. Not anymore.

I graduated from the Prep in 1982. Back then the biggest sport there was Crew...

[Fightingscot82]

School district consolidation in The Yinzerlands is long overdue. There are too many dinky schools out there. Every town does not need a high school,

Too many elitist and/or racist communities don't want to merge. The few mergers in the last 50 years have been acrimonious at best but usually begrudgingly gained approval due to dire finances (like Armstrong). A whole lot of older working-class communities with declining populations bordered by a white flight suburban district that may even share police, zip codes, etc: Beaver Falls/Blackhawk, Aliquippa/Hopewell, Monaca/Center (now merged), Sto-Rox/Montour, Ambridge/Rochester/Freedom, Cornell/Moon, Clairton/Thomas Jefferson, McKeesport/East Allegheny, Steel Valley/West Mifflin, Jeanette/Norwin/Hempfield, etc etc. Some upper class districts that can't avoid these communities just have thriving private schools (Sewickley Academy & Quaker Valley, Shadyside Academy & Fox Chapel). Woodland Hills was created from a court order identifying racism & segregation as the reasons several small failing districts refused to merge...in 1989!!! I think the only recent merger that has worked well is Central Valley (Center & Monaca) because of the immediate athletic success.

I don't believe SEPA has as nearly as many working-class, largely-black communities bordering largely white middle class suburbs. SEPA also has a couple mega-districts that were once geographically large that experienced significant population growth & could establish multiple high schools within the same district. NWPA has done this but only out of necessity for declining economies & population.

Once you get out of Allegheny County, a lot of it is small, rural communities that are probably too far to merge with others. I always argue that cost savings on administrative mergers are negligible.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Too many elitist and/or racist communities don't want to merge. The few mergers in the last 50 years have been acrimonious at best but usually begrudgingly gained approval due to dire finances (like Armstrong). A whole lot of older working-class communities with declining populations bordered by a white flight suburban district that may even share police, zip codes, etc: Beaver Falls/Blackhawk, Aliquippa/Hopewell, Monaca/Center (now merged), Sto-Rox/Montour, Ambridge/Rochester/Freedom, Cornell/Moon, Clairton/Thomas Jefferson, McKeesport/East Allegheny, Steel Valley/West Mifflin, Jeanette/Norwin/Hempfield, etc etc. Some upper class districts that can't avoid these communities just have thriving private schools (Sewickley Academy & Quaker Valley, Shadyside Academy & Fox Chapel). Woodland Hills was created from a court order identifying racism & segregation as the reasons several small failing districts refused to merge...in 1989!!! I think the only recent merger that has worked well is Central Valley (Center & Monaca) because of the immediate athletic success.

I don't believe SEPA has as nearly as many working-class, largely-black communities bordering largely white middle class suburbs. SEPA also has a couple mega-districts that were once geographically large that experienced significant population growth & could establish multiple high schools within the same district. NWPA has done this but only out of necessity for declining economies & population.

Once you get out of Allegheny County, a lot of it is small, rural communities that are probably too far to merge with others. I always argue that cost savings on administrative mergers are negligible.

This is Year 2 for one close to Indiana. Saltsburg and Blairsville became River City last year. Both sides largely fought against the merger but lost.

Saltsburg is an extremely small, remote town about 20 miles from Indiana. It had pretty good sports teams (at times) over its long run. It's a neat little place ... kind of lost in time to a different era. The Kiski River was really reborn about a decade ago and Saltsburg became one of its main hubs for kayaking, etc. The two districts aren't exactly right beside one another. Essentially everything stayed in Blairsville (which was the bigger school). So, that even made it worse for the Saltsburg kids.

Like any merger, however, after a few years go by it will just be normal. It's these first couple classes that take all the heat.

Regarding Armstrong, remember this isn't the first time Kittanning and Ford City merged. Remember the short-lived Armstrong Central? I think it only lasted one school year ... 1990 I recall. However, this time around both sides seem to at least be more accepting of it.

Indiana County is dotted with these very small high schools (most of the Heritage Conference). It's shocking to me that, for example, Homer City kids just don't attend Indiana.

[Ship69]

Too many elitist and/or racist communities don't want to merge. The few mergers in the last 50 years have been acrimonious at best but usually begrudgingly gained approval due to dire finances (like Armstrong). A whole lot of older working-class communities with declining populations bordered by a white flight suburban district that may even share police, zip codes, etc: Beaver Falls/Blackhawk, Aliquippa/Hopewell, Monaca/Center (now merged), Sto-Rox/Montour, Ambridge/Rochester/Freedom, Cornell/Moon, Clairton/Thomas Jefferson, McKeesport/East Allegheny, Steel Valley/West Mifflin, Jeanette/Norwin/Hempfield, etc etc. Some upper class districts that can't avoid these communities just have thriving private schools (Sewickley Academy & Quaker Valley, Shadyside Academy & Fox Chapel). Woodland Hills was created from a court order identifying racism & segregation as the reasons several small failing districts refused to merge...in 1989!!! I think the only recent merger that has worked well is Central Valley (Center & Monaca) because of the immediate athletic success.

I don't believe SEPA has as nearly as many working-class, largely-black communities bordering largely white middle class suburbs. SEPA also has a couple mega-districts that were once geographically large that experienced significant population growth & could establish multiple high schools within the same district. NWPA has done this but only out of necessity for declining economies & population.

Once you get out of Allegheny County, a lot of it is small, rural communities that are probably too far to merge with others. I always argue that cost savings on administrative mergers are negligible.

There are always some school districts that would hard to merge. In Franklin County, we have the Fannett-Metal School District tucked away in the northwest corner of the county. The district already has had elementary and high school kids riding the same buses each day because of the spread-out population and long trips within the district. Because of its relatively large population, outsiders tend to think of Pennsylvania as an urban state, but it's amazing how isolated some communities and school districts are within the state. I had a traveling job for a few years that took me to districts in all areas of the state, and going to some of them was almost like time traveling to another world. I was at one high school that had fewer than 30 in its graduating class. It was in the middle of nowhere — don't know who you would have combined it with. States cut up by rivers and mountain valleys tend to end up with areas such as that. In Washington County, Md., to the south of me, you have the Hancock schools out in the western area of the county that are a headache for that county school district. They'd almost be better off combining with the tiny Southern Fulton district in Pa., which is closer to them than most of the schools in their own county. Obviously, that isn't going to happen.

[IUPNation]

Too many elitist and/or racist communities don't want to merge. The few mergers in the last 50 years have been acrimonious at best but usually begrudgingly gained approval due to dire finances (like Armstrong). A whole lot of older working-class communities with declining populations bordered by a white flight suburban district that may even share police, zip codes, etc: Beaver Falls/Blackhawk, Aliquippa/Hopewell, Monaca/Center (now merged), Sto-Rox/Montour, Ambridge/Rochester/Freedom, Cornell/Moon, Clairton/Thomas Jefferson, McKeesport/East Allegheny, Steel Valley/West Mifflin, Jeanette/Norwin/Hempfield, etc etc. Some upper class districts that can't avoid these communities just have thriving private schools (Sewickley Academy & Quaker Valley, Shadyside Academy & Fox Chapel). Woodland Hills was created from a court order identifying racism & segregation as the reasons several small failing districts refused to merge...in 1989!!! I think the only recent merger that has worked well is Central Valley (Center & Monaca) because of the immediate athletic success.

I don't believe SEPA has as nearly as many working-class, largely-black communities bordering largely white middle class suburbs. SEPA also has a couple mega-districts that were once geographically large that experienced significant population growth & could establish multiple high schools within the same district. NWPA has done this but only out of necessity for declining economies & population.

Once you get out of Allegheny County, a lot of it is small, rural communities that are probably too far to merge with others. I always argue that cost savings on administrative mergers are negligible.

In SEPA...the consolidations happened years ago. Small towns like Bridgeport and Conshohocken had their own high schools. In the 60's, they were merged into Upper Merion and Plymouth-Whitemarsh.

Norristown and Coatesville are two districts where the town the schools are named after have a large minority population but the district also includes the white majority townships that border them. Norristown High School is actually in West Norriton Township. Coatesville seems to work because they do well in sports. Their school taxes however are horrendous.

There are a few school districts with multiple high schools. West Chester (3), Downingtown (2) and Central Bucks (3) are probably the ones that you are thinking about.

[EyeoftheHawk]

This is Year 2 for one close to Indiana. Saltsburg and Blairsville became River City last year. Both sides largely fought against the merger but lost.

Saltsburg is an extremely small, remote town about 20 miles from Indiana. It had pretty good sports teams (at times) over its long run. It's a neat little place ... kind of lost in time to a different era. The Kiski River was really reborn about a decade ago and Saltsburg became one of its main hubs for kayaking, etc. The two districts aren't exactly right beside one another. Essentially everything stayed in Blairsville (which was the bigger school). So, that even made it worse for the Saltsburg kids.

Like any merger, however, after a few years go by it will just be normal. It's these first couple classes that take all the heat.

Regarding Armstrong, remember this isn't the first time Kittanning and Ford City merged. Remember the short-lived Armstrong Central? I think it only lasted one school year ... 1990 I recall. However, this time around both sides seem to at least be more accepting of it.

Indiana County is dotted with these very small high schools (most of the Heritage Conference). It's shocking to me that, for example, Homer City kids just don't attend Indiana.

From the kids I know and many of the parents, they like the move despite some of the travel distances for some. It’s largely a few, particularly on the Saltsburg side, that can’t give up the Trojans. The fights on the school board are embarrassing. I don’t doubt for a second if the board flipped to being Saltsburg heavy they’d try to bring back the Trojans.

What they have now and are growing toward is going to be better for everyone. The resources available to the kids are already far better and will continue to improve (academically and athletically). Saltsburg was falling apart. The facilities were awful. I get why a small community like that wouldn’t want to lose its school and traditions, but that’s a merger that should have happened at least 10 years ago if not sooner. There are probably others in the area that should consider the same, but it would probably be more difficult because Blairsville/Saltsburg is the same district.

[nodnol]

In SEPA...the consolidations happened years ago. Small towns like Bridgeport and Conshohocken had their own high schools. In the 60's, they were merged into Upper Merion and Plymouth-Whitemarsh.

Norristown and Coatesville are two districts where the town the schools are named after have a large minority population but the district also includes the white majority townships that border them. Norristown High School is actually in West Norriton Township. Coatesville seems to work because they do well in sports. Their school taxes however are horrendous.

There are a few school districts with multiple high schools. West Chester (3), Downingtown (2) and Central Bucks (3) are probably the ones that you are thinking about.

Also Council Rock (2)