Thumping

[CHIP72]

NCAA football programs, by state:

State	FBS	FCS	D2	D3	Total
Pennsylvania	3	8	17	26	54
Ohio	8	2	10	21	41
Texas	12	8	7	10	37
North Carolina	7	7	14	4	32
New York	3	8	2	18	31
Massachusetts	2	2	5	20	29
Illinois	3	4	2	19	28
Minnesota	1		9	15	25
Virginia	3	7	3	10	23
California	7	4	2	8	21
Michigan	5		8	7	20
Wisconsin	1			18	19
Indiana	4	3	2	9	18
Iowa	2	2	1	11	16
Georgia	4	3	7	2	16
Tennessee	4	6	3	3	16
Missouri	1	2	10	2	15
Alabama	4	4	4	2	14
Florida	7	4	2		13
South Carolina	2	7	4		13
Oklahoma	3		9		12
Louisiana	5	6		1	12
West Virginia	2		9	1	12
Arkansas	2	2	6	1	11
Mississippi	3	3	2	2	10
Kentucky	3	3	2	2	10
Colorado	3	1	6		10
Connecticut	1	3	2	4	10
Maryland	2	2	1	5	10
Oregon	2	1	1	5	9
New Jersey	1	2		6	9
South Dakota		2	5		7
Washington	2	1	1	3	7
Kansas	2		4		6
Utah	3	2	1		6
Maine		1		5	6
Nebraska	1		3	1	5
New Mexico	2		3		5
North Dakota		2	2		4
D.C.		2		2	4
New Hampshire		2	1	1	4
Rhode Island		3		1	4
Arizona	2	1			3
Idaho	2	1			3
Delaware		2		1	3
Vermont				3	3
Montana		2			2
Nevada	2				2
British Columbia			1		1
Hawai'i	1				1
Wyoming	1				1

I'll note the table doesn't include NAIA programs, which are relatively common in the Midwest/upper Great Plains.

[CHIP72]

I think its the potential to be the perennial best D2 department in the country to the unknown of D1. Will they turn out 14k a year to see GVSU football play Illinois State? Maybe not. Especially if they start losing more often.

I think the biggest thing that holds GVSU from moving to DI-AA/FCS is the additional travel costs that would be incurred. They'd really be out on an island geography-wise if they moved up.

That's one of the problems Youngstown State is facing IMO. They are in the Missouri Valley Football Conference, far, far away from everyone else. It actually might make more sense for YSU to join the New England to North Carolina-based CAA. They'd still be a geographic outlier but not as big an outlier.

[IUPNation]

In the endless talks of FCS, GVSU fans always seem to cite the lack of FCS schools in Michigan as a reason to stay in D2. To me, that's an opportunity begging. I think they could be very competitive, very quickly at the FCS level. Same with Ferris, though there really haven't been much in the way of Ferris rumblings like there are with GVSU.

There is only one Conference they could join and North Dakota State dominates it.

[Redwing]

There is only one Conference they could join and North Dakota State dominates it.

Don't be so sure. There's another option. It's a bit closer too.

[IUPNation]

Don't be so sure. There's another option. It's a bit closer too.

[Iupgh]

NCAA football programs, by state:

State	FBS	FCS	D2	D3	Total
Pennsylvania	3	8	17	26	54
Ohio	8	2	10	21	41
Texas	12	8	7	10	37
North Carolina	7	7	14	4	32
New York	3	8	2	18	31
Massachusetts	2	2	5	20	29
Illinois	3	4	2	19	28
Minnesota	1		9	15	25
Virginia	3	7	3	10	23
California	7	4	2	8	21
Michigan	5		8	7	20
Wisconsin	1			18	19
Indiana	4	3	2	9	18
Iowa	2	2	1	11	16
Georgia	4	3	7	2	16
Tennessee	4	6	3	3	16
Missouri	1	2	10	2	15
Alabama	4	4	4	2	14
Florida	7	4	2		13
South Carolina	2	7	4		13
Oklahoma	3		9		12
Louisiana	5	6		1	12
West Virginia	2		9	1	12
Arkansas	2	2	6	1	11
Mississippi	3	3	2	2	10
Kentucky	3	3	2	2	10
Colorado	3	1	6		10
Connecticut	1	3	2	4	10
Maryland	2	2	1	5	10
Oregon	2	1	1	5	9
New Jersey	1	2		6	9
South Dakota		2	5		7
Washington	2	1	1	3	7
Kansas	2		4		6
Utah	3	2	1		6
Maine		1		5	6
Nebraska	1		3	1	5
New Mexico	2		3		5
North Dakota		2	2		4
D.C.		2		2	4
New Hampshire		2	1	1	4
Rhode Island		3		1	4
Arizona	2	1			3
Idaho	2	1			3
Delaware		2		1	3
Vermont				3	3
Montana		2			2
Nevada	2				2
British Columbia			1		1
Hawai'i	1				1
Wyoming	1				1

I say Duquesne and Robert Morris have been a huge factor in the talent drop at IUP those programs did not exist or were irrelevant in the FC era. Just a thought but with past discussions with 2 head coaches in the psac they strongly agree.

[Iupgh]

Well, that kind of says it all. Amazing a state the size of California has so few D2 programs. Those of us in the East, other than just West Chester and East Stroud, should certainly be recruiting NJ (and I think Mac is starting to do that). I'd like see Ship make more of a play for Maryland as well.

California is a huge JUCO State for football

[Ram040506]

I say Duquesne and Robert Morris have been a huge factor in the talent drop at IUP those programs did not exist or were irrelevant in the FC era. Just a thought but with past discussions with 2 head coaches in the psac they strongly agree.

I'd say your right. Duquense and Robert Morris have that D1 label and kids want that label to tell their friends. I'd certainly argue that IUP or other upper level PSAC programs would win usually against both of those "D1" programs, but the kids can't get over the D1 label.

The folding of programs in the grand scheme might actually be better for small school football in the NE area of the country. Could allow Region 1 to eventually narrow the gap to maybe 40-15 instead of 55-7...

[Iupgh]

I'd say your right. Duquense and Robert Morris have that D1 label and kids want that label to tell their friends. I'd certainly argue that IUP or other upper level PSAC programs would win usually against both of those "D1" programs, but the kids can't get over the D1 label.

The folding of programs in the grand scheme might actually be better for small school football in the NE area of the country. Could allow Region 1 to eventually narrow the gap to maybe 40-15 instead of 55-7...

They do win some recruiting battles against both as per Duane Brown who turned down RMU for IUP. Local kid helped I am sure..

[Fightingscot82]

I'd say your right. Duquense and Robert Morris have that D1 label and kids want that label to tell their friends. I'd certainly argue that IUP or other upper level PSAC programs would win usually against both of those "D1" programs, but the kids can't get over the D1 label.

The folding of programs in the grand scheme might actually be better for small school football in the NE area of the country. Could allow Region 1 to eventually narrow the gap to maybe 40-15 instead of 55-7...

At least RMU upgraded their league. In time that should help them become more of a traditional FCS program.

[Iupgh]

I'd say your right. Duquense and Robert Morris have that D1 label and kids want that label to tell their friends. I'd certainly argue that IUP or other upper level PSAC programs would win usually against both of those "D1" programs, but the kids can't get over the D1 label.

The folding of programs in the grand scheme might actually be better for small school football in the NE area of the country. Could allow Region 1 to eventually narrow the gap to maybe 40-15 instead of 55-7...

[Redwing]

I don't want GV to move up. I do want the GLIAC to stabilize and improve.

[Fightingscot82]

I don't want GV to move up. I do want the GLIAC to stabilize and improve.

That's hard. Unless some D3 schools move up or the GLIAC convinces some expats to return, I don't know how the GLIAC can improve. How many non-football schools are there beyond Lake Superior State?

[EastStroud13]

Beyond money, the second-biggest factor that drives realignment is perception. Schools and teams have a desire to be in a conference/division with institutions they see as peers. Yes, it's nice that GVSU is a national player in D2, but at the end of the day, they're still perceived as a D2 school, and there's only so much recognition you can achieve that way, no matter how good you are.

Is moving up a tradeoff? Absolutely. Increased travel costs and a much-reduced chance of championships are both factors to consider. But from the outside looking in, it seems to be the easiest path forward to elevating GVSU's perception nationwide, and achieving growth as a program.

And regarding what conference they'd join, I don't see the MVFC picking a team up straight from D2. But the path for GVSU to win conference championships in something like the OVC is pretty wide. Once they get a track record of success, the MVFC (or even the MAC) will become a more realistic step.

[Fightingscot82]

Beyond money, the second-biggest factor that drives realignment is perception. Schools and teams have a desire to be in a conference/division with institutions they see as peers. Yes, it's nice that GVSU is a national player in D2, but at the end of the day, they're still perceived as a D2 school, and there's only so much recognition you can achieve that way, no matter how good you are.

Is moving up a tradeoff? Absolutely. Increased travel costs and a much-reduced chance of championships are both factors to consider. But from the outside looking in, it seems to be the easiest path forward to elevating GVSU's perception nationwide, and achieving growth as a program.

And regarding what conference they'd join, I don't see the MVFC picking a team up straight from D2. But the path for GVSU to win conference championships in something like the OVC is pretty wide. Once they get a track record of success, the MVFC (or even the MAC) will become a more realistic step.

In Michigan, GVSU is probably #3 in the pecking order after the flagships. Every once in a while a directional MAC school bumps up when their football team makes a run. They also have a very FBS-like media presence with a network of live radio broadcasts, weekly coaches shows on commercial radio, etc.