THE IUP Football Thread

[iupgroundhog]

IUP wins if they can sell themselves as an incredible research program at a much lower cost than the others. Hard sciences often require some advanced study to do the actual field work - IUP can get them to the big name school just as well without the bigger loan. IUP has some very successful alumni who leveraged their IUP experience for something bigger. Its proof that the value proposition works. Really, that's all of our schools, but "Great things happen here!" slogans don't differentiate you from all the other BS (not saying IUP does this).

There are a lot of variables to play out and even us posters with our advanced vision can't project where it all ends up IUP isn't even in their building yet.

Not to get personal but I will reiterate a couple of points. You always accentuate the "education school" heritage of the PASSHE. However, none of the IUP faithful went to an "education school." Don't forget that IUP was a comprehensive university from the mid-1960's. You weren't there so you don't have an appreciation for that. As for BigIndians party school, low academics image I think that is much truer in Indiana County than outside of Indiana County.

[Fightingscot82]

Good answer. My hope is that the new Kopchick building produces a 21st-century version of Gatorade that benefits IUP for generations. My fear is that there is a dinosaur named after Kopchick and the same does not apply to IUP.

IUP wins if they can sell themselves as an incredible research program at a much lower cost than the others. Hard sciences often require some advanced study to do the actual field work - IUP can get them to the big name school just as well without the bigger loan. IUP has some very successful alumni who leveraged their IUP experience for something bigger. Its proof that the value proposition works. Really, that's all of our schools, but "Great things happen here!" slogans don't differentiate you from all the other BS (not saying IUP does this).

[iupgroundhog]

No, SRU is realigning to meet market demand in SWPA: health professions, business, engineering & science. The engineering program was a build-out of pre-existing 2+2 and 3+2 agreements with Penn State, Pitt, and WVU. Its been expensive and there have been accusations about the cost but enrollment is soaring. I think the distinction with IUP is that a) SRU is building out a School of Engineering vs a department at IUP, and b) IUP is focusing on a research approach to science.

Good answer. My hope is that the new Kopchick building produces a 21st-century version of Gatorade that benefits IUP for generations. My fear is that there is a dinosaur named after Kopchick and the same does not apply to IUP.

[Fightingscot82]

It's amazing to think the two schools are about the same size now. I guess I was at IUP during the golden years of enrollment when IUP was at least double the size of SRU. Hell, that wasn't THAT long ago.

IUP's reputation is still garbage, academically. I know IUP does well in the PR-type rankings, but I'm talking 'street' reputation.

Western PA is full of parents with ties to IUP who now have college-aged kids. They all remember the 80s and 90s at IUP. I know many personally who didn't even consider letting their kids come here because of their memories (or lack there of) of the place.

IUP today isn't even remotely like it was back then. It's a pretty calm, normal school now. But, IUP has never escaped the stigma from that era. Its reputation among people my age ... who experienced the hey day of, well, IUP, is God awful.

I was just talking to a friend of my parents over the weekend who went to IUP and is a retired teacher. She didn't believe me that IUP is now under 9,000 students and less than 20% study education. I showed her online and her jaw dropped. She was like "well they aren't telling anybody this!" WHY WOULD THEY?

I think SRU's growth in the health professions helped a lot. Dr. Evil also was a boon to the safety science program. He was also a tenured professor in that department and would encourage A LOT of football players to study safety. Slip is also a much tinier and sleepier town. Its a thoroughfare cutting the corners between the Ohio Line and Butler and Grove City as much as it is college town. Being dry until 20 years ago helped keep the off campus culture tame and the school out of the news. IUP has Pittsburgh news covering it but also the Altoona/Johnstown/State College station. The Butler Eagle reports on SRU but doesn't have it as a staff assignment like the IG.

I also don't think IUP's reputation is much worse (if at all) than other PASSHE schools. We were all debauched party schools in the 70s through 90s. We've always had rather passive admission with a similar amount failing out or running out of money. Several D2 schools some of us would recognize have state mandated open admissions but you'd never know it - but for some reason giving a chance to anyone with a 2.5 and 900 SAT is not worthy of respect. We've always been the middle and working class entry level university. Most states have a similar attitude toward their D2 and D3 state schools with maybe the exception of Grand Valley State in Michigan and some SUNY schools like Brockport and Geneseo. Even Stony Brook has trouble shaking their state school designation.

We are all getting killed by decreased birth rates because we can't have more admission days in Florida and California. We're also getting it from the privates giving 50-60% discounts on tuition and selling that discount very well to families who view private schools as a rich thing and never could have afforded to send little Brayden to the local St. Grabbyhands Country Day School Academy. "Thiel really wants my Brayden - they're offering him $100,000 in scholarships! I went to IUP and can you believe it that they didn't even give him $500 off!"

[IUPbigINDIANS]

No, SRU is realigning to meet market demand in SWPA: health professions, business, engineering & science. The engineering program was a build-out of pre-existing 2+2 and 3+2 agreements with Penn State, Pitt, and WVU. Its been expensive and there have been accusations about the cost but enrollment is soaring. I think the distinction with IUP is that a) SRU is building out a School of Engineering vs a department at IUP, and b) IUP is focusing on a research approach to science.

It's amazing to think the two schools are about the same size now. I guess I was at IUP during the golden years of enrollment when IUP was at least double the size of SRU. Hell, that wasn't THAT long ago.

IUP's reputation is still garbage, academically. I know IUP does well in the PR-type rankings, but I'm talking 'street' reputation.

Western PA is full of parents with ties to IUP who now have college-aged kids. They all remember the 80s and 90s at IUP. I know many personally who didn't even consider letting their kids come here because of their memories (or lack there of) of the place.

IUP today isn't even remotely like it was back then. It's a pretty calm, normal school now. But, IUP has never escaped the stigma from that era. Its reputation among people my age ... who experienced the hey day of, well, IUP, is God awful.

[Fightingscot82]

Ship had a benefactor for their engineering program, plus it's been in the works for many years. The SRU situation is more mysterious. Are they trying to be all things to all people?

No, SRU is realigning to meet market demand in SWPA: health professions, business, engineering & science. The engineering program was a build-out of pre-existing 2+2 and 3+2 agreements with Penn State, Pitt, and WVU. Its been expensive and there have been accusations about the cost but enrollment is soaring. I think the distinction with IUP is that a) SRU is building out a School of Engineering vs a department at IUP, and b) IUP is focusing on a research approach to science.

[iupgroundhog]

Its been a point of contention at SRU because engineering is generally expensive - especially the startup phase. Plus PASSHE moves at the speed two tortoises screwing, so just like construction by the time the payment is due on something decided years ago the price has increased significantly.

If everyone hasn't noticed, education is now nowhere near the top majors at our schools. Elementary Education with Special Ed dual certification is usually the only one that might crack the top 5 majors - but generally as 5th. Probably a direct variable in the current teacher shortage in PA. The number of Pennsylvania colleges offering education degrees has quintupled in the last 50 years - and private schools are still adding and developing. SRU is revamping its school of education to streamline undergrad but focus on graduate studies and second career teacher programs.

Ship had a benefactor for their engineering program, plus it's been in the works for many years. The SRU situation is more mysterious. Are they trying to be all things to all people?

[Fightingscot82]

So the mandates are only for employees that work with minors, the Sandusky law, the question had to do with the implementation- who is required to do the check. A check on faculty hiring is understandable, checking every work study hire is not typical of most universities, every 5 years for employees shouldn’t be required either

If its a state-wide state employee mandate, I'm for it. If its a state mandate for everyone working in education, I'm okay with it. In reality, they should be periodically checking (like every 5 years) that employees don't have convictions for the mandatory reporting crimes (generally crimes of violence or against children). I don't care if Dr. Joeblow got a public urination citation at the Kenny Chesney concert, but I do care if he was found guilty of aggravated assault or providing alcohol to minors.

[Fightingscot82]

IUP secured a lot of private funding to build their new science building. How did Ship and SRU develop these Engineering programs in the current climate?

Its been a point of contention at SRU because engineering is generally expensive - especially the startup phase. Plus PASSHE moves at the speed two tortoises screwing, so just like construction by the time the payment is due on something decided years ago the price has increased significantly.

If everyone hasn't noticed, education is now nowhere near the top majors at our schools. Elementary Education with Special Ed dual certification is usually the only one that might crack the top 5 majors - but generally as 5th. Probably a direct variable in the current teacher shortage in PA. The number of Pennsylvania colleges offering education degrees has quintupled in the last 50 years - and private schools are still adding and developing. SRU is revamping its school of education to streamline undergrad but focus on graduate studies and second career teacher programs.

[ironmaniup]

I think the FBI and state background checks are state mandated, not PASSHE. I believe the fight the faculty union gave was on whether already hired employees had to submit them. And as an FYI - they're different background checks. State Police will give them all misdemeanors and felonies within Pennsylvania. The FBI background check uses the FBI fingerprint database to check all US states and territories. In the prehistoric times, there was no way to be sure that the new admissions counselor you hired was a convicted felon in Montana unless someone told them.

So the mandates are only for employees that work with minors, the Sandusky law, the question had to do with the implementation- who is required to do the check. A check on faculty hiring is understandable, checking every work study hire is not typical of most universities, every 5 years for employees shouldn’t be required either

[iupgroundhog]

Slippery Rock did as well. They are positioning themselves to be heavy in technology, health, and human services - the most thriving industries in Southwestern PA. Oddly they're almost giving up on nursing because the market is so saturated but focusing on higher level health profession fields like physician assistant, physical therapy, etc. SRU is projecting a very small enrollment increase for the fall.

IUP secured a lot of private funding to build their new science building. How did Ship and SRU develop these Engineering programs in the current climate?

[Fightingscot82]

Usually, demolition costs are included in the budget of the new building, so this money is probably already earmarked by the state, and the university paid for asbestos abatement in the building long ago. While building costs are handled with different state budgets, it does look bad to have such major construction occurring when the IUP budget is suffering.

It's sad to see the trouble IUP is having, but when you have people that think that increasing dorm costs is a way to make sure the dorm loans are paid, and when you decide that every employee on campus needs an FBI AND State background check , on the possibility that they might encounter a non college 17 year old for a couple minutes, or that paying millions of dollars for imagineering seminars, and then don't notice the decrease in student quality, that foreshadows the enrollment decrease, well, you'll find yourself in this situation. The idea most passhe admins seemed to have had is that they could expand offerings to those non traditional students, or at least beat out the other passhe schools for the decreasing student demand, was just wishful thinking.

I think the FBI and state background checks are state mandated, not PASSHE. I believe the fight the faculty union gave was on whether already hired employees had to submit them. And as an FYI - they're different background checks. State Police will give them all misdemeanors and felonies within Pennsylvania. The FBI background check uses the FBI fingerprint database to check all US states and territories. In the prehistoric times, there was no way to be sure that the new admissions counselor you hired was a convicted felon in Montana unless someone told them.

[Fightingscot82]

Ship recently added an engineering school with five major areas of study, and don't think that the privates in the state (Lehigh, anyone?) were happy with that at all. Now what they need to do is get the word out.

Slippery Rock did as well. They are positioning themselves to be heavy in technology, health, and human services - the most thriving industries in Southwestern PA. Oddly they're almost giving up on nursing because the market is so saturated but focusing on higher level health profession fields like physician assistant, physical therapy, etc. SRU is projecting a very small enrollment increase for the fall.

[ironmaniup]

Good points. Tearing down large commercial buildings - especially those built in the asbestos, concrete, block, and stone era of the 60s and 70s, is expensive.

How will the IUP faithful feel about them becoming another welfare queen of the PASSHE system?

Usually, demolition costs are included in the budget of the new building, so this money is probably already earmarked by the state, and the university paid for asbestos abatement in the building long ago. While building costs are handled with different state budgets, it does look bad to have such major construction occurring when the IUP budget is suffering.

It's sad to see the trouble IUP is having, but when you have people that think that increasing dorm costs is a way to make sure the dorm loans are paid, and when you decide that every employee on campus needs an FBI AND State background check , on the possibility that they might encounter a non college 17 year old for a couple minutes, or that paying millions of dollars for imagineering seminars, and then don't notice the decrease in student quality, that foreshadows the enrollment decrease, well, you'll find yourself in this situation. The idea most passhe admins seemed to have had is that they could expand offerings to those non traditional students, or at least beat out the other passhe schools for the decreasing student demand, was just wishful thinking.

[Ship69]

Right. And PASSHE isn't good at creating new academic programs. They tend to supplement what is already there and take way too long compared to private schools. Its also faculty expertise driven and not really market driven. Then they never really market individual programs. All PASSHE schools have a couple really great grad programs that fly under the radar because they don't market them individually - just "get your master's degree at XX University of Pennsylvania!". Unfortunately with enrollment declines and the slow roll of shifting many grad programs to asynchronous online (what the people want) a lot of these programs have disappeared or are targets for elimination.

Ship recently added an engineering school with five major areas of study, and don't think that the privates in the state (Lehigh, anyone?) were happy with that at all. Now what they need to do is get the word out.