OT: PIAA Wrestling public vs. private

[Bart]

The religious/private schools recruit, by definition. I wasn't complaining about that I was saying it is not a level playing field.

I know of several public schools that have recruited wrestlers and football players. They find jobs in local factories for the parents who move the family or the player moves to a relatives home in the district. If a coach wants to win, they find a way. There are many private schools that aren't competitive in athletics. It comes down to the culture of the school community, private or public if they are going to recruit the best athletes.

[IUPNation]

I think there can be the best public school and the best private school. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

The PSAC comparison doesn’t apply. The schools can all, should they decide to, recruit the entire country and fill their full scholarship slots. Some schools decide to focus resources and effort on sports that aren’t football or basketball. Public high schools get the kids that live in the district. That’s it. They don’t have the opportunity to say, “We’re weak at point guard next season so let’s go shopping.”

I just see a lot of dick wagging about who is really the best. I think every private school should be classified higher than their enrollment based on their capabilities to recruit. Bethlehem Catholic should be in the top classification in wrestling even if they are AAA in size.

We have three private schools that can print coupons and get whoever they want..they just aren’t good at the latter.

A private school won the D2 title this year.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I just see a lot of dick wagging about who is really the best. I think every private school should be classified higher than their enrollment based on their capabilities to recruit. Bethlehem Catholic should be in the top classification in wrestling even if they are AAA in size.

We have three private schools that can print coupons and get whoever they want..they just aren’t good at the latter.

A private school won the D2 title this year.

Luckily for the rest of us, Gannon has struggled to find the right coach to really elevate them. That has been the sleeping giant in SR1.

Mercyhurst doesn't seem all that interested in football. It's not top priority there in the sports pecking order.

Seton Hill has its obstacles - no stadium, very small campus, little history, etc.

[iupgroundhog]

I just see a lot of dick wagging about who is really the best. I think every private school should be classified higher than their enrollment based on their capabilities to recruit. Bethlehem Catholic should be in the top classification in wrestling even if they are AAA in size.

We have three private schools that can print coupons and get whoever they want..they just aren’t good at the latter.

A private school won the D2 title this year.

Nation, AAA IS the top classification in PIAA wrestling. Bethlehem Catholic was forced to move up to AAA from AA (the other classification) about 10 years ago. Plus, the topic is the PIAA, not the PSAC or D2.

[iupgroundhog]

But which side gets to claim to be the best in the state? The public or the private?

Because one side is going to claim it and piss the other one off…

It would be like the Pee Sack having two State Games for the Haves and the Have Nots.

That question has no relevance. Currently, there are multiple state champions in PIAA sports in most sports. On the topic, there are 2 (AAA and AA) in wrestling. There are 6 in football. You can't always say that the higher division is the best. In wrestling specifically, the AA team could be better than the AAA. In the individual championships, the AA winner is often better than the AAA winner.

[iupgroundhog]

I know of several public schools that have recruited wrestlers and football players. They find jobs in local factories for the parents who move the family or the player moves to a relatives home in the district. If a coach wants to win, they find a way. There are many private schools that aren't competitive in athletics. It comes down to the culture of the school community, private or public if they are going to recruit the best athletes.

Of course, that happens. But it is never near the level that a Bethlehem Catholic, Faith Christian Academy, Bishop McCort, or Notre Dame (Green Pond) can use recruiting to assemble a team.

That not all private schools rise to the top athletically or in some sports is a specious argument. Sure, it is the culture, as you say. There is an emphasis on wrestling at Becahi. However, that is not the point. It's not that they do it it's how they do it.

[iupgroundhog]

Thanks for bringing it back around because the conversation of public versus private always ends up off the rails and the intent of the original post gets lost.

I don’t know how anyone could argue with a straight face that it’s fair for public schools to have to compete for championships with schools that can bring kids in from anywhere. As you pointed out, it’s apples to oranges. Let them play during the regular season. Separate the championships.

That's correct. It's not fair. It doesn't take a PASSHE grad to figure that out.

[Ship69]

Public schools have been combining for years, partly in order to produce better sports teams. In the area I grew up in, three public high schools combined into one 35 years ago. The result was the loss of local rivalries and pride, and 4,000 students participating in 26 sports, as well as the closing of a private high school. In a way, it was recruiting by eliminating local competition.

That happened in the Harrisburg area years ago. Many school districts had combined before I moved to Pa. in 1963. There used to be a lot more districts than the 500 we have now. Waynesboro, where I live now, actually was once three districts with small high schools in Quincy and Washington townships. On the other side of the coin, Mechanicsburg, where I graduated in '65, once included all the land that is now part of the Cumberland Valley School District. That school district actually divided, with Cumberland Valley getting most of the land, so CV is now a much larger school district than Mechanicsburg. CV is probably one of the fastest growing districts in the state. If they'd had sports teams in mind, they could have left that district together and had a real sports powerhouse.

[jrshooter]

Thanks for bringing it back around because the conversation of public versus private always ends up off the rails and the intent of the original post gets lost.

I don’t know how anyone could argue with a straight face that it’s fair for public schools to have to compete for championships with schools that can bring kids in from anywhere. As you pointed out, it’s apples to oranges. Let them play during the regular season. Separate the championships.

I physically cringed when I saw this.

No.

I don't know if you go back this far, but do you know what everyone in state HS athletics was saying back in the late '60s? "We don't have a true state champ. How can a state not have true state champions?"

So in 1972, the PIAA did something about that. And I, for one, sure don't want to go back to the way it was before. I don't want the kid who wrestles for Bishop McCort to run the table and then have people say, "Well, he's not really the state champion." And don't tell me a kid like Trinity's Owen Schlager doesn't deserve a chance to play for a state basketball championship that encompasses all the schools of that size.

Do whatever needs to be done to address the public/private issue -- short of what you're saying.. And you know, nobody ever promised Johnny a state championship, and he wasn't even promised a perfectly square playing field. A lot of people don't seem to get that. Maybe the public school which wants that gold medal so bad needs to ... get better.

I think I'll save that last sentence in a stored key to be used when we argue again about running up the score.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I physically cringed when I saw this.

No.

I don't know if you go back this far, but do you know what everyone in state HS athletics was saying back in the late '60s? "We don't have a true state champ. How can a state not have true state champions?"

So in 1972, the PIAA did something about that. And I, for one, sure don't want to go back to the way it was before. I don't want the kid who wrestles for Bishop McCort to run the table and then have people say, "Well, he's not really the state champion." And don't tell me a kid like Trinity's Owen Schlager doesn't deserve a chance to play for a state basketball championship that encompasses all the schools of that size.

Do whatever needs to be done to address the public/private issue -- short of what you're saying.. And you know, nobody ever promised Johnny a state championship, and he wasn't even promised a perfectly square playing field. A lot of people don't seem to get that. Maybe the public school which wants that gold medal so bad needs to ... get better.

I think I'll save that last sentence in a stored key to be used when we argue again about running up the score.

I follow high school sports. I attend games.

Ask me who won the last 10 state titles in football or boys basketball. I couldn't name one.

[Bart]

Of course, that happens. But it is never near the level that a Bethlehem Catholic, Faith Christian Academy, Bishop McCort, or Notre Dame (Green Pond) can use recruiting to assemble a team.

That not all private schools rise to the top athletically or in some sports is a specious argument. Sure, it is the culture, as you say. There is an emphasis on wrestling at Becahi. However, that is not the point. It's not that they do it it's how they do it.

I agree sport is over emphasized in schools. I am not sure how private schools recruit compared to public schools, but we agree they both recruit. As you noted before, private schools recruit by definition. Public schools already have the students in waiting; my point was the consolidation of schools helps public school athletics. How many times have there been posts of Pennsylvania having too many schools to compete on a national athletic stage?

[iupgroundhog]

I physically cringed when I saw this.

No.

I don't know if you go back this far, but do you know what everyone in state HS athletics was saying back in the late '60s? "We don't have a true state champ. How can a state not have true state champions?"

So in 1972, the PIAA did something about that. And I, for one, sure don't want to go back to the way it was before. I don't want the kid who wrestles for Bishop McCort to run the table and then have people say, "Well, he's not really the state champion." And don't tell me a kid like Trinity's Owen Schlager doesn't deserve a chance to play for a state basketball championship that encompasses all the schools of that size.

Do whatever needs to be done to address the public/private issue -- short of what you're saying.. And you know, nobody ever promised Johnny a state championship, and he wasn't even promised a perfectly square playing field. A lot of people don't seem to get that. Maybe the public school which wants that gold medal so bad needs to ... get better.

I think I'll save that last sentence in a stored key to be used when we argue again about running up the score.

I don't understand that line of thinking at all.

The kid who wrestles for Bishop McCort has that same situation, anyway, because there is also a AAA state champion. Get better kinda misses the point.

[EyeoftheHawk]

I physically cringed when I saw this.

No.

I don't know if you go back this far, but do you know what everyone in state HS athletics was saying back in the late '60s? "We don't have a true state champ. How can a state not have true state champions?"

So in 1972, the PIAA did something about that. And I, for one, sure don't want to go back to the way it was before. I don't want the kid who wrestles for Bishop McCort to run the table and then have people say, "Well, he's not really the state champion." And don't tell me a kid like Trinity's Owen Schlager doesn't deserve a chance to play for a state basketball championship that encompasses all the schools of that size.

Do whatever needs to be done to address the public/private issue -- short of what you're saying.. And you know, nobody ever promised Johnny a state championship, and he wasn't even promised a perfectly square playing field. A lot of people don't seem to get that. Maybe the public school which wants that gold medal so bad needs to ... get better.

I think I'll save that last sentence in a stored key to be used when we argue again about running up the score.

Did you seriously just type that with a straight face?

Interesting.

[EyeoftheHawk]

I don't understand that line of thinking at all.

The kid who wrestles for Bishop McCort has that same situation, anyway, because there is also a AAA state champion. Get better kinda misses the point.

100%

[IUPNation]

Nation, AAA IS the top classification in PIAA wrestling. Bethlehem Catholic was forced to move up to AAA from AA (the other classification) about 10 years ago. Plus, the topic is the PIAA, not the PSAC or D2.

Then they need to create a AAAA classification and move them up.