"HURST OUT OF PSAC?

[IUP24]

VSU? As in... Valdosta? The OVC seems like a very odd fit, I'd have expected them to be taken by the ASUN or Big South.

Grand Valley is the one that truly belongs in D1. They could join the OVC and immediately be competitive in pretty much every sport. If they make that move, I think it's only a matter of time before they jump the OVC for even greener pastures.

I think the challenge for GVSU is one based on proximity and location. What's the end game for them? An eventual move to FBS football to join MAC? If that's the case, maybe I could see it. But the more they move up, the more their uniqueness of being an elite D2 school with shared fans ends. Consider that a massive chunk of their fanbase and alumni base identify as Michigan and Michigan State fans. Once you cross that threshold into the FBS world, that will start to end. I don't want to say you'll lose those people entirely. But I think you see my point. It's okay to cross over and root for GVSU and Michigan currently. But when those two play at the same level (and listen, I get those two will NEVER be at the same level), will you get the same passionate crossover interest?

Get to the MAC and you are just Akron and Ohio State. When the rubber meets the road, none of those Akron fans or graduates will root for the Zips to be more successful than the Buckeyes.

I just don't understand the obsession all these universities suddenly have with becoming a D1 school.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I think the challenge for GVSU is one based on proximity and location. What's the end game for them? An eventual move to FBS football to join MAC? If that's the case, maybe I could see it. But the more they move up, the more their uniqueness of being an elite D2 school with shared fans ends. Consider that a massive chunk of their fanbase and alumni base identify as Michigan and Michigan State fans. Once you cross that threshold into the FBS world, that will start to end. I don't want to say you'll lose those people entirely. But I think you see my point. It's okay to cross over and root for GVSU and Michigan currently. But when those two play at the same level (and listen, I get those two will NEVER be at the same level), will you get the same passionate crossover interest?

Get to the MAC and you are just Akron and Ohio State. When the rubber meets the road, none of those Akron fans or graduates will root for the Zips to be more successful than the Buckeyes.

I just don't understand the obsession all these universities suddenly have with becoming a D1 school.

It's a way for Mercyhurst to look down at Gannon.

That's my theory.

Athletically, they will be a forgotten memory.

[iupgroundhog]

I think the challenge for GVSU is one based on proximity and location. What's the end game for them? An eventual move to FBS football to join MAC? If that's the case, maybe I could see it. But the more they move up, the more their uniqueness of being an elite D2 school with shared fans ends. Consider that a massive chunk of their fanbase and alumni base identify as Michigan and Michigan State fans. Once you cross that threshold into the FBS world, that will start to end. I don't want to say you'll lose those people entirely. But I think you see my point. It's okay to cross over and root for GVSU and Michigan currently. But when those two play at the same level (and listen, I get those two will NEVER be at the same level), will you get the same passionate crossover interest?

Get to the MAC and you are just Akron and Ohio State. When the rubber meets the road, none of those Akron fans or graduates will root for the Zips to be more successful than the Buckeyes.

I just don't understand the obsession all these universities suddenly have with becoming a D1 school.

I believe GVSU has their own fanbase that is separate from Michigan and Michigan State. I guess that has to do with geography. I've always been under the impression that GVSU owns that part of Michigan and I think their fans would follow them.

[Fightingscot82]

DII is a terrible place to be for small privates. I actually think what Mercyhurst is doing makes sense- or go Division III. But they are operating under an entirely different model than the state schools, so it's not an apples to apples comparison.

I agree to an extent. If they can discount enough to be very competitive in D2, then they can probably hack it in a low rate D1 conference. The PASSHE schools have a glass ceiling for fundraising, especially those in small rural towns.

[Fightingscot82]

I think the challenge for GVSU is one based on proximity and location. What's the end game for them? An eventual move to FBS football to join MAC? If that's the case, maybe I could see it. But the more they move up, the more their uniqueness of being an elite D2 school with shared fans ends. Consider that a massive chunk of their fanbase and alumni base identify as Michigan and Michigan State fans. Once you cross that threshold into the FBS world, that will start to end. I don't want to say you'll lose those people entirely. But I think you see my point. It's okay to cross over and root for GVSU and Michigan currently. But when those two play at the same level (and listen, I get those two will NEVER be at the same level), will you get the same passionate crossover interest?

Get to the MAC and you are just Akron and Ohio State. When the rubber meets the road, none of those Akron fans or graduates will root for the Zips to be more successful than the Buckeyes.

I just don't understand the obsession all these universities suddenly have with becoming a D1 school.

Yep. When I worked at Miami, the students didn't show up and openly tailgated outside before watching the Ohio State games on TV - and that was just a couple years removed from a top 10 finish and a first round draft pick QB. Those things don't happen very often for MAC schools.

[iupgroundhog]

I just don't understand the obsession all these universities suddenly have with becoming a D1 school.

Considering this is the D2 board, I think a lot of folks are in denial about schools moving up. The visibility and prestige alone make it worthwhile, as long as the school can swing it financially.

I think it is a reasonable plan for all of the previously mentioned candidates, but especially for GVSU and West Florida. Ironically, both of those schools have gone to great lengths in the past to deny interest in moving up.

When IUP has toyed with the idea of moving up, I was supportive. As we know, the funds were just not there.

Sorry to say that if visibility for your school is a goal that D1 is visible while D2, unfortunately, is not very visible.

Having said that, I will add that I will always believe strongly in the student/athlete concept that D2 sports are based around.

[Iupgh]

Considering this is the D2 board, I think a lot of folks are in denial about schools moving up. The visibility and prestige alone make it worthwhile, as long as the school can swing it financially.

I think it is a reasonable plan for all of the previously mentioned candidates, but especially for GVSU and West Florida. Ironically, both of those schools have gone to great lengths in the past to deny interest in moving up.

When IUP has toyed with the idea of moving up, I was supportive. As we know, the funds were just not there.

Sorry to say that if visibility for your school is a goal that D1 is visible while D2, unfortunately, is not very visible.

Having said that, I will add that I will always believe strongly in the student/athlete concept that D2 sports are based around.

West Florida moviing up was a guarentee when they bought their first jock strap in 2015. Location, abundance of local talent and large enrollment. I would think GV is tied into the Michigan state school system like most PSAC schools which hinders their movement up. Both would be immediate top 15 FCS programs for sure. GV would git nicely into the LeaguecYSU is in.

[Fightingscot82]

It's a way for Mercyhurst to look down at Gannon.

That's my theory.

Athletically, they will be a forgotten memory.

You might be onto something. Gannon and Mercyhurst have a very similar profile. Gannon's athletic tradition is more known but Mercyhurst is seen as the stuffier of the two. Think of Gannon as the Duquesne of Erie, distilled for scale, and Mercyhurst is maybe St. Vincent, just a couple miles away though.

But think about that. Two middling private Catholic schools in the same struggling city with lots of shared characteristics. Gannon has their "downtown" presence and their thriving health campus in Florida. What does Mercyhurst have? Well, now they have D1 sports. The only D1 school between St. Bonaventure and Cleveland State - and that says all you need to know. Some schools are very good at taking advantage of Joe Public having NO CLUE what makes a school D1 vs D2 vs D3. Most think its about being "good" enough or size. Schools like Robert Morris are able to sell that as a hallmark of their experience. I assume Mercyhurst will do the same. Even though nobody cares any more about Stonehill than they did for Shippesnburg.

[EastStroud13]

I think the challenge for GVSU is one based on proximity and location. What's the end game for them? An eventual move to FBS football to join MAC? If that's the case, maybe I could see it. But the more they move up, the more their uniqueness of being an elite D2 school with shared fans ends. Consider that a massive chunk of their fanbase and alumni base identify as Michigan and Michigan State fans. Once you cross that threshold into the FBS world, that will start to end. I don't want to say you'll lose those people entirely. But I think you see my point. It's okay to cross over and root for GVSU and Michigan currently. But when those two play at the same level (and listen, I get those two will NEVER be at the same level), will you get the same passionate crossover interest?

Get to the MAC and you are just Akron and Ohio State. When the rubber meets the road, none of those Akron fans or graduates will root for the Zips to be more successful than the Buckeyes.

I just don't understand the obsession all these universities suddenly have with becoming a D1 school.

I think the MAC has the schools that GVSU ultimately fits best with. My prediction is, by the time GVSU is actually in position to join the MAC, the power schools will have broken off into their own tier. Thus, they wouldn't be in direct competition with Michigan or MSU.

But, I also think GVSU could easily become a top program at the FCS level. There are no FCS programs in Michigan right now, so the opportunity is there.

[Mikefln]

You might be onto something. Gannon and Mercyhurst have a very similar profile. Gannon's athletic tradition is more known but Mercyhurst is seen as the stuffier of the two. Think of Gannon as the Duquesne of Erie, distilled for scale, and Mercyhurst is maybe St. Vincent, just a couple miles away though.

.

What do you mean by "stuffier of the two?" With Duquesne and SVC, there is no competition, just preferences. City vs small town/rural, university vs college, Approx. 6K students compared to less than 1,500, D1 vs what was NAIA and now D3. I do not see SVC being stuffier, just different.

[ctrabs74]

I believe GVSU has their own fanbase that is separate from Michigan and Michigan State. I guess that has to do with geography. I've always been under the impression that GVSU owns that part of Michigan and I think their fans would follow them.

Grand Valley football used to be aired on several stations across Michigan, stretching as far away as Detroit and Lansing. Now, the English broadcast appears to be limited to Grand Rapids and Muskegon, though there is a Spanish broadcast which is carried in Grand Rapids, Lansing and Midland.

So, you could make the argument that GV is probably third on the pecking order overall in Michigan - or at least in West Michigan - behind UM and MSU.

[Sec10-A-14]

I think, with no sound reasoning that Mercyhurst move up to D1 is a ploy to increase enrollment. There was a short time ago
when MH ha near 4,000 students. At one time they had a sub campus in North East, Pa @ 15mi east of main campus. Lesser
known was their west campus in the Girard area @ 18mi from main. The west lasted about 4yrs and the east about 15yrs.
Both are closed and enrollment is down to about 2300. their endowment is down to $31M. I think MH is in trouble
While Gannon has been increasing and is up to 4706 and estimates of $100M endowment.
Of course this is all conjecture.

[D2Ohio]

I think the MAC has the schools that GVSU ultimately fits best with. My prediction is, by the time GVSU is actually in position to join the MAC, the power schools will have broken off into their own tier. Thus, they wouldn't be in direct competition with Michigan or MSU.

But, I also think GVSU could easily become a top program at the FCS level. There are no FCS programs in Michigan right now, so the opportunity is there.

I have always thought it would be MVFC if they could park all other sports in the Horizon, if the other Michigan schools would not block them...

[4_tattoos]

Always overlooked in the recuring PSAC replacement team derby is Lincoln University PA. I mean, they are in-state, they have both football and basketball and if mileage is the key factor many seem to think it is, then adding Lincoln to the East and moving one of the east's most western schools to the west seems pretty logical. I'd think Millersville, WCU and Kutztown would be salivating at the prospect of having an in-state conference opponent 40, 30 and 60 (respectively) miles away. Also a milage win for Lincoln PA as they are the northern outlier in the largely Virginia based CIAA. I mean, if mileage is truly the dominant factor for schools, seems like a no brainer for all involved.

So why no interest in Lincoln? Is there something else?

North Carolina

[IUPNation]

It's a way for Mercyhurst to look down at Gannon.

That's my theory.

Athletically, they will be a forgotten memory.

Well IUP looks down at both of them so there’s that.


:-)