Northwest @ Grand Valley

[BillyGV]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

You're lobbying for a participation trophy as well.

Another dumb comment - I am old school so one only receives a trophy when they earn it - I want the team to earn many more and to do that I must participate - UM has gone 15 years without playing for a conference championship and yet have had 100K plus at every game during those same 15 years and added to the stadium at every level and now maybe, IF they can beat OSU, something they haven't done in 6 years and only once in the past 15, they will play for one - so don't tell me fans don't support their program with attendance and money during bad times

[DawgUp]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

That doesn't mean sh$t - give me a break - my gosh it's a xerris fan - what the heck do they know

Hey don't take your frustrations out on me buddy. All year I've been saying most of what you're reading on here. As much as GV sucks @&&, you guys being down lowers the quality of the GLIAC overall. MM has showed who he is as a coach..can't keep banging your head against a wall expecting a different result. But I'm sure you all see that better than I do.

My vote, keep him as long as possible. I'm truly enjoying this. My Thanksgiving shall be full of merry and cheer (and beer). But from a national perspective, when your conferences' supposed signature program lays a turd in probably the most highly profiled playoff game..we all hurt :disapointed: (violin playing in background)

.

[Irishlaker]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

Beach, I don't always agree with everything you post or how you post it. That said, I was thinking about this today as I was driving home from the game...and this EXACT line-up that you have is what I kept going back to. In short: We have had a significant tendency to SUCK in big games. No greater manifestation of that than today. I simply can't disagree with you one iota here.

Look, I don't want to discredit NW...they're a fine team with a lot of good players and they were coached well and executed beautifully. Their defensive speed was tremendous. BUT, more importantly, I found their assignment discipline to be above reproach. The fact that NW scored on inside zone runs on TWO CONSECUTIVE OFFENSIVE SNAPS (one from 29, the other from 84 yards away) speaks VOLUMES about our LACK of discipline defensively. I have long been critical of our O, but today our D was a letdown also. The first TD was a missed tackle, and at least two of their rushing TD's were on completely blown fits. Come on, Man...championship D's simply don't have breakdowns like that. Just can't happen.

As for the O...the D gives them both a TD AND a PICK to set up a short field in the first quarter. Instead of jumping all over NW and dictating tempo (and FORCING A TEAM AWAY FROM THEIR STRENGTH) we were predictable, penalty-ridden, and once again poor in execution. Sorry, I'm not usually one for calling kids out but you-know-who was once again horribly inaccurate in a big game. That hosed us against Ferris six weeks ago, and was basically a problem all year regardless of his health. I'm all for establishing the run, and in many ways we actually ran OK today. BUT, you have a team that gives up 200 a game against the pass...why not sling it all over the damn joint? I guess if the QB isn't accurate, I already have my answer.

I'm in with everyone else...something has to change. Our pattern is to take dumps in big games, get taken advantage of on D as not being assignment sound, and we perennially have ZERO imagination on O. I was genuinely hopeful the OC change would make a world of difference. It didn't. Maybe that was because we had our current QB and we just weren't willing to commit to a wholesale change prior to his senior year. I get that, but it's hard to argue that the results were awful. I mean, how much longer do we have to suffer through seemingly every pass play being a deep ball? I wanted to spit tacks every time we'd throw an incomplete pass today and you'd see EVERY receiver in the pattern 20+ yards downfield. Of course, the few times we did throw short the balls were often low, behind, or too far in front of their targets. Again, maybe I'm answering my own question.

I'm grateful as all hell to be a grad and fan of a school were 10-2 is a abject disappointment. That said, we have a school that recruits itself and a virtually unmatched pedigree. While we can't get some of the bandits we used to, we still are able to get damn near everyone we actually want. Yet, despite that talent, it seems like our play in "Bigger Stage" games that we tout so much has been crummy more often than it hasn't. We are plenty talented, but we absolutely aren't developing that talent. We get kids to buy into our culture, but can't seem to get them to buy into executing a game plan when it counts.

Sure, it's easy for me to sit here behind my keyboard and be critical. That said, you are what you put on tape. What we put on tape in most big games the last few years has been for $h|+. I just don't know how it can be argued. I don't know what the answer is, and I don't always think it is as easy as finding a new coach. But if we had lost an epic tilt today because NW executed late when it counted, I could live with it. That didn't happen...we (yet again) got friggin' dump-trucked and didn't look competent or like we even belonged. I can't live with that. I love my school and my team and I'm not the type that will withhold his support...but I have to admit I've seen this movie too many times in recent years and I am exhausted of having my heart broken by it.

[Redwing]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

I get that many of you are frustrated with Mitchell. It does seem from the outside he's pretty much hit his ceiling as far as how far he is going to take GVSU. But I do wonder if the talent on this team was a little overrated. I saw the FSU game and the Ashland game. As an AU fan, I was shocked we hung with the Lakers, and in some aspects outplayed them. Maybe injuries on defense did take a huge toll because AU ran the ball well against you, and today was an ass whipping up front! NW Missouri St. had backs that were 5 plus yards past the line of scrimmage before contact time after time.

Bottom line, I wouldn't want Mitchell any longer if I was a GVSU grad. I also don't think the team I saw the last half of the season was good enough to go very far in the playoffs.

I just have to ask.. You like Owens? (I'm not entering the MM discussion here. Too emotional for me right now.)

[KleShreen]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

Almost every member of Chuck Martin's staff at Miami came from working under Mitchell as a head coach, first. Eric Koehler, Bill Brechin, Israel Woolfork (player under Mitchell, not coach), Pat Welsh, EJ Whitlow, Matt Yoches. All coached under Mitch in some capacity and are now on Miami's staff, either getting hired directly or first going to another school and then on to Miami. If you want to complain about Miami Ohio not setting the world on fire with all of them, fine, but don't throw him under the bus for not getting his assistants better positions after GV when he clearly has.

[JR Chaney]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

I will say. I was happy with the Nebraska game today. They are fighting!

[Cat N Mav]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

What a great day. I made the trip with my son, so it was some good bonding and will be a memory that lasts a long time for him.

What a great facility. It really is great. Everyone there was very nice, and it was a real pleasure to meet the people I met.

I was surprised at how few people attended the game. I was expecting a more electric atmosphere.

I did buy a GV sweatshirt, got some good food, and loved another chance to see the downtown in Holland, and spent time with friends I hadn't seen for a while. Roads were mostly good, weather was mostly cooperative.

The score was not reflective of the game itself. The two late TDs make it look more lopsided than it was. With 7 minutes left, the ending was still in question. Northwest had some big plays, but for a long time they weren't hitting. GV is still a tough team, and one of the most respected programs. That's not going to change.

Thanks for the hospitality. Best wishes to all.

[KleShreen]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

Additionally, to those who want Mitchell out. What is your solution? Because that's the part nobody ever wants to come up with. Because the candidates for the job, if you want them with no connection to the program, are either going to be people who got fired from their previous job, or unknown position coaches who have never been head coaches, or head coaches from a lower level of play. You're not going to get some hotshot D1 assistant who is already making more money as a D1 assistant. You're not going to steal another successful D2 team's head coach. So which of those do you want to take your chance on? Because double-digit win seasons don't grow on trees.

I just think MM gets a bad rep from most on here because he happens to be the head coach at a time when his own conference has one of the top football coaches in the country, regardless of division, in it at the same time. Not like when BK and Chuck were at GVSU and GVSU was the only school in the conference that could put together any kind of resemblance of a competent coaching staff. It's like saying the Bills/Dolphins/Jets have all just been incompetent trash while competing in the same division with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Doesn't matter what those other three teams do. They're gonna lose.

[Cat N Mav]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

Hey, I don't have a dog in the "Fire Matt Mitchell" fight, but do y'all know Brian Kelly coached 10 years before taking a team to Florence? His best year in those 10 had 2 losses, the other 9 seasons were 3 or more losses and his worst had 5. His playoff experience totaled three appearances, all of which were first round losses (7 times not making the playoffs).

[IH8SVSU]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

Additionally, to those who want Mitchell out. What is your solution? Because that's the part nobody ever wants to come up with. Because the candidates for the job, if you want them with no connection to the program, are either going to be people who got fired from their previous job, or unknown position coaches who have never been head coaches, or head coaches from a lower level of play. You're not going to get some hotshot D1 assistant who is already making more money as a D1 assistant. You're not going to steal another successful D2 team's head coach. So which of those do you want to take your chance on? Because double-digit win seasons don't grow on trees.

I just think MM gets a bad rep from most on here because he happens to be the head coach at a time when his own conference has one of the top football coaches in the country, regardless of division, in it at the same time. Not like when BK and Chuck were at GVSU and GVSU was the only school in the conference that could put together any kind of resemblance of a competent coaching staff. It's like saying the Bills/Dolphins/Jets have all just been incompetent trash while competing in the same division with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Doesn't matter what those other three teams do. They're gonna lose.

Dude, coach searches are common. GV needs to put together a search committee JUST like other teams do. There are plenty of coaches that would love to coach at GV and build back up what MM has destroyed. To your point, MM gets a bad rap because he took a great football program and turned it into a mediocre program.

[chapmaja]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

Additionally, to those who want Mitchell out. What is your solution? Because that's the part nobody ever wants to come up with. Because the candidates for the job, if you want them with no connection to the program, are either going to be people who got fired from their previous job, or unknown position coaches who have never been head coaches, or head coaches from a lower level of play. You're not going to get some hotshot D1 assistant who is already making more money as a D1 assistant. You're not going to steal another successful D2 team's head coach. So which of those do you want to take your chance on? Because double-digit win seasons don't grow on trees.

I just think MM gets a bad rep from most on here because he happens to be the head coach at a time when his own conference has one of the top football coaches in the country, regardless of division, in it at the same time. Not like when BK and Chuck were at GVSU and GVSU was the only school in the conference that could put together any kind of resemblance of a competent coaching staff. It's like saying the Bills/Dolphins/Jets have all just been incompetent trash while competing in the same division with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Doesn't matter what those other three teams do. They're gonna lose.

I am not going to run through all 22 pages of posts in this discussion.

I will however add my 2 cents into the discussion on firing Mitchell and who they can get as a replacement if they were to fire him.

I completely agree that you are not going to hire a quality assistant coach from a major D1 program in large part due to the pay. GVSU could not afford what many are making as assistant coaches.

That does leave the option of either a "fired" former coach or stealing someone from another program.

I don't have a huge problem with getting a coach who has been "fired" from a previous coaching stop depending on the circumstances of that firing. Honestly, I would take Notre Dame's OL coach Jeff Quinn as a viable candidate. He has experience being fired from Buffalo and has experience at GVSU as an assistant under BK for many years. The

The other option is getting a coach from another program to come and take over the program. I'm not entirely in agreement that you couldn't get a coach to come from another D2 program to GVSU. I think GVSU is a desirable head coaching position within the D2 ranks and could be a decent landing spot for a coach trying to build his resume.

That last part is the issue with D2 coaching in general. It is a resume building spot for many coaches who desire to move to the "big leagues". Schools need to be very careful not to become the "revolving door" of head coaches as the coaches are successful and move up. That more than anything can be a program killing issues.

For the record, no I am not in the Fire MM bandwagon.

I spent much of my time at GVSU during the time BK was not winning playoff games. The success came later as a result of many different factors. The thing with BK teams, and I see the same with MM's teams is that they may not be playoff teams every season, but you rarely see a bad season. MM's worst season was a 6-5 team in 2014. That team rebounded and in 2015 made the semi's. BK's worst season was in 1999. In 1999 GVSU dropped their first three games before climbing back to .500 by the end of the season. MM's team started 0-3 in 2014 and climbed back to be above .500.

Also, something else to consider. When talking about BK's team not making the playoffs some years during his tenure, it does need to be remembered that the playoff structure was different then. The majority of BK's time the post-season was 4 teams per region. A 8-3 team rarely made the post-season in the 16 team bracket years (GVSU did make the post-season in 1994 at 8-3). GVSU's team in 1997 likely would have made it in as a 2 loss team, but instead missed out after losing the penultimate game to UC-Davis 21-19. GVSU was 9-2 that season, as was SVSU and Ashland. Ashland was the GLIAC's lone playoff team despite losing to GVSU.

The 1997 season saw two GLIAC teams: GVSU and SVSU both finish 9-2 and miss out. The 4 playoff teams were New Haven (9-1, 7-0 D2), Slippery Rock (10-1, 10-0 D2), Ashland (9-1), and Glenville St (9-2, 8-2 D2). SVSU likely would have been the next team in, given their H2 H win over the Laker's. GVSU would then have been fighting with a couple other schools for a 6th or 7th seed, instead they got left home.

[OICU812]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

Additionally, to those who want Mitchell out. What is your solution? Because that's the part nobody ever wants to come up with. Because the candidates for the job, if you want them with no connection to the program, are either going to be people who got fired from their previous job, or unknown position coaches who have never been head coaches, or head coaches from a lower level of play. You're not going to get some hotshot D1 assistant who is already making more money as a D1 assistant. You're not going to steal another successful D2 team's head coach. So which of those do you want to take your chance on? Because double-digit win seasons don't grow on trees.

I just think MM gets a bad rep from most on here because he happens to be the head coach at a time when his own conference has one of the top football coaches in the country, regardless of division, in it at the same time. Not like when BK and Chuck were at GVSU and GVSU was the only school in the conference that could put together any kind of resemblance of a competent coaching staff. It's like saying the Bills/Dolphins/Jets have all just been incompetent trash while competing in the same division with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Doesn't matter what those other three teams do. They're gonna lose.

I really don't like to be that guy but Bills/Dolphins/Jets HAVE all just been incompetent trash and they have stacked up the losses while Brady fills his hands with rings. Have you watched the NFL in the past 10 years?

[KleShreen]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

I really don't like to be that guy but Bills/Dolphins/Jets HAVE all just been incompetent trash and they have stacked up the losses while Brady fills his hands with rings. Have you watched the NFL in the past 10 years?

Yes. Regardless of what players they had or what coaches they had, they weren't, and aren't, going to win anything. Maybe a better comparison would be acting like the 90's New York Knicks were garbage just because they played at the same time as the Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson-led Bulls.

[KleShreen]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

I am not going to run through all 22 pages of posts in this discussion.

I will however add my 2 cents into the discussion on firing Mitchell and who they can get as a replacement if they were to fire him.

I completely agree that you are not going to hire a quality assistant coach from a major D1 program in large part due to the pay. GVSU could not afford what many are making as assistant coaches.

That does leave the option of either a "fired" former coach or stealing someone from another program.

I don't have a huge problem with getting a coach who has been "fired" from a previous coaching stop depending on the circumstances of that firing. Honestly, I would take Notre Dame's OL coach Jeff Quinn as a viable candidate. He has experience being fired from Buffalo and has experience at GVSU as an assistant under BK for many years. The

The other option is getting a coach from another program to come and take over the program. I'm not entirely in agreement that you couldn't get a coach to come from another D2 program to GVSU. I think GVSU is a desirable head coaching position within the D2 ranks and could be a decent landing spot for a coach trying to build his resume.

That last part is the issue with D2 coaching in general. It is a resume building spot for many coaches who desire to move to the "big leagues". Schools need to be very careful not to become the "revolving door" of head coaches as the coaches are successful and move up. That more than anything can be a program killing issues.

For the record, no I am not in the Fire MM bandwagon.

I spent much of my time at GVSU during the time BK was not winning playoff games. The success came later as a result of many different factors. The thing with BK teams, and I see the same with MM's teams is that they may not be playoff teams every season, but you rarely see a bad season. MM's worst season was a 6-5 team in 2014. That team rebounded and in 2015 made the semi's. BK's worst season was in 1999. In 1999 GVSU dropped their first three games before climbing back to .500 by the end of the season. MM's team started 0-3 in 2014 and climbed back to be above .500.

Also, something else to consider. When talking about BK's team not making the playoffs some years during his tenure, it does need to be remembered that the playoff structure was different then. The majority of BK's time the post-season was 4 teams per region. A 8-3 team rarely made the post-season in the 16 team bracket years (GVSU did make the post-season in 1994 at 8-3). GVSU's team in 1997 likely would have made it in as a 2 loss team, but instead missed out after losing the penultimate game to UC-Davis 21-19. GVSU was 9-2 that season, as was SVSU and Ashland. Ashland was the GLIAC's lone playoff team despite losing to GVSU.

The 1997 season saw two GLIAC teams: GVSU and SVSU both finish 9-2 and miss out. The 4 playoff teams were New Haven (9-1, 7-0 D2), Slippery Rock (10-1, 10-0 D2), Ashland (9-1), and Glenville St (9-2, 8-2 D2). SVSU likely would have been the next team in, given their H2 H win over the Laker's. GVSU would then have been fighting with a couple other schools for a 6th or 7th seed, instead they got left home.

But like I said, why would someone like Jeff Quinn want to be the head coach at GV? He's a position coach at one of the best schools in the country and will be on the short list of virtually every non-P5 head coaching search, and if not, will be in line to be the offensive coordinator and associate head coach at the aforementioned one of the best schools in the country. There's no reason for him to take a huge salary cut and prestige cut in going back to GV for any position.

I think it would be unwise for anyone to want MM to be fired just to replace him with "not MM," just because someone has the irrational thought that GV should be the only successful team in the country and playing in the national championship game five out of every six years as if that was sustainable. A few people now have such a skewed view of what they think the program should be just because it happened to have one of the best coaches in the country at any level and multiple once-in-a-lifetime players all there at the same time for a while before most schools even started caring about their D-II football programs the same way. Very few schools in the country wouldn't take the last nine years that GV has had. But since we are GV, that means we must always have revolutionary coaches and other-worldly players and it is unacceptable if anyone dares to challenge, apparently.

[IH8SVSU]

Re: Northwest @ Grand Valley

But like I said, why would someone like Jeff Quinn want to be the head coach at GV? He's a position coach at one of the best schools in the country and will be on the short list of virtually every non-P5 head coaching search, and if not, will be in line to be the offensive coordinator and associate head coach at the aforementioned one of the best schools in the country. There's no reason for him to take a huge salary cut and prestige cut in going back to GV for any position.

I think it would be unwise for anyone to want MM to be fired just to replace him with "not MM," just because someone has the irrational thought that GV should be the only successful team in the country and playing in the national championship game five out of every six years as if that was sustainable. A few people now have such a skewed view of what they think the program should be just because it happened to have one of the best coaches in the country at any level and multiple once-in-a-lifetime players all there at the same time for a while before most schools even started caring about their D-II football programs the same way. Very few schools in the country wouldn't take the last nine years that GV has had. But since we are GV, that means we must always have revolutionary coaches and other-worldly players and it is unacceptable if anyone dares to challenge, apparently.

A good coach will improve a program. Show me how MM has improved the GV football program. He hasn't. You are mediocre therefore you are ok with a mediocre football program, I get it.