GV vs Ferris, version 2.0

[DawgUp]

lol well considering I'm at the actual game, a little difficult.

And, again, I've never defended Mitchell on here lol. I've simply said Annese is one of the best coaches in D-II history, and is difficult to beat. Not sure why you want to keep tearing Annese down, though? It seems like that's what you're doing when you try and keep blaming Mitchell for losing to Annese.
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Oh aren't you a sly booger...trying to act like this is taking away from Annese. I haven't torn Annese down in anyway. I'm only responding to the sentiment of the GVers on the board. I mean, this isn't one of our strongest teams. We're playing a ton of RFr and GV had so many players coming back, I figured GV would at least get to the semifinals before they choked.

May I suggest this as a coaching change. Go throw some cash at Mines coach. Entice him to come over for a few years before he heads to greener pastures at a D1 program.

[dvaara]

I don't really have an opinion. He happens to be coaching at the same time as one of the best coaches in D-II history in the same conference. If Annese isn't the coach at Ferris, GV probably has multiple national titles during Mitchell's tenure. So what do you want to accomplish? Do you want to keep digging away the way they are, or do you want to start over with someone entirely new, hoping they are going to be better than one of the best football coaches in the last 30 years? What are you going to do if they find someone else and then GV struggles to be .500 going forward? Are you going to be upset then, or are you going to be happy because it isn't Mitchell going 12-1?

If you think Sparky McEwen is the answer, I don't know what to tell you. Again, Mitchell has a top-three winning percentage among active coaches in D-II with at least 8 years, and a top 10 winning percentage all-time in the history of D-II football. If you think you can find better, just because he loses to the coach with the best winning percentage in D-II football among active coaches and a top 3 winning percentage all-time in the history of D-II football, then I don't know.

Kle- you know I respect your sports knowledge, especially small school sports knowledge. This post is complete nonsense. Annese is a great coach but if BK were still here do you think ferris would be dominating the GLIAC? Of course you don't because you're not stupid. My point is that the school with every advantage is underachieving because their coach is terrible. As a result ferris is running wild. The reason GVSU has been owned by ferris (and the other few great programs in d2) is not because annese is unbeatable. It's because Mitchell is an underachiever and he's killing the program. Compare gv facilities with ferris. Compare their location. Compare all of their other advantages. There is no reason FSU should dominate gv for as long as they have except for the fact that Mitchell is terrible. You're too smart to come back with Mitchell's winning percentage as an argument to his capabilities as a coach. Tell me one program in d2 that has the advantages that gv does. There isn't one.

[GVLakerFan24]

Can someone explain the logic of having Cade punt on that first possession? That was so incredibly stupid and terrible and it’s not like we were in a position where it was even conceivable that we might run a fake or go for the first, so trotting Cade out there to run to side, right into the defenders, has me completely dumbfounded. Who knows how the entire game would’ve played different if GV didn’t gift Ferris the early td and the momentum with that.

[dvaara]

Also kle what the hell you talking about with starting new and possibly struggling to be .500??? The only chance of them struggling to be .500 would be if they joined the big ten.

You understand the inequity realities of d2 football as well as anyone on this board. How can you continue to bring up Mitchell win percentage as evidence of why he's a good coach????

[KleShreen]

Kle- you know I respect your sports knowledge, especially small school sports knowledge. This post is complete nonsense. Annese is a great coach but if BK were still here do you think ferris would be dominating the GLIAC? Of course you don't because you're not stupid. My point is that the school with every advantage is underachieving because their coach is terrible. As a result ferris is running wild. The reason GVSU has been owned by ferris (and the other few great programs in d2) is not because annese is unbeatable. It's because Mitchell is an underachiever and he's killing the program. Compare gv facilities with ferris. Compare their location. Compare all of their other advantages. There is no reason FSU should dominate gv for as long as they have except for the fact that Mitchell is terrible. You're too smart to come back with Mitchell's winning percentage as an argument to his capabilities as a coach. Tell me one program in d2 that has the advantages that gv does. There isn't one.

Kelly is currently coaching at one of the top football programs in the country for a reason. He is one of the best football coaches in the country. That's what Ferris has now, but Annese chooses not to go anywhere. Unlucky for GV, lucky for Ferris.

How is winning percentage not indicative of performance lol. The GLIAC has two of the best active coaches, and two of the best coaches in D-II history based on winning percentage. Since his 3rd year (because I don't really put any stock in to any head coach's first two years with someone else's players), Annese is 98-10. GV is responsible for 3 of those losses. The only other team who has beaten Ferris more than once in that time is Ashland, with two. I'm just not sure what you are expecting to get when Ferris currently has someone who is on par with what Brian Kelly was at GV, except he chooses not to move up. There's only so many of those coaches which exist. Mitchell isn't BK. Do you remember when Chuck Martin took over? He lost 3 games his first year and every GV fan wanted to run him out of town. Then he won two titles with BK's recruits. And then he got smoked by NW Missouri, got upset by Duluth, and then lost to Hillsdale and then lost to NW Missouri again and everyone was glad he left for Notre Dame.

Y'all are insatiable. You were spoiled by BK having three years of success after a decade of mediocrity and then Chuck continuing it for two more years before he started failing in the playoffs and we threw a party when he left.

I just don't know what the hell you are expecting. We're in a bad situation because Ferris found a very good coach who doesn't care about moving up. Again, I ask you. Do you want to blow everything up after going 23-3 over the last two years with two of those losses to the best coach in D-II and risk going back to total mediocrity as a program, or do you want to keep having success and at least having a fighting chance at beating Ferris? I don't know what the answer is. What is your answer?

[KleShreen]

Also kle what the hell you talking about with starting new and possibly struggling to be .500??? The only chance of them struggling to be .500 would be if they joined the big ten.

You understand the inequity realities of d2 football as well as anyone on this board. How can you continue to bring up Mitchell win percentage as evidence of why he's a good coach????

You have no idea what a new coach or staff would be like if you want to run Mitchell out. What happens if we run the whole staff out of town and then the program nosedives for the next 10 years? Are you going to be happy about that just because it isn't Mitchell? The odds of getting a coach who struggles to win double digit games is a LOT more likely than finding someone who is going to do better. Do you want to win double digit games and have a chance at getting by Ferris once in a while, or do you want to blow everything up and maybe go 5-6 or find someone better than Annese? Because I'm telling you right now, there's not a person on the planet who is going to apply to coach GV who is going to be better than Annese. I don't understand why you think it's just a matter of "finding someone better" when odds of that happening are slim to none.

[dvaara]

Kelly is currently coaching at one of the top football programs in the country for a reason. He is one of the best football coaches in the country. That's what Ferris has now, but Annese chooses not to go anywhere. Unlucky for GV, lucky for Ferris.

How is winning percentage not indicative of performance lol. The GLIAC has two of the best active coaches, and two of the best coaches in D-II history based on winning percentage. Since his 3rd year (because I don't really put any stock in to any head coach's first two years with someone else's players), Annese is 98-10. GV is responsible for 3 of those losses. The only other team who has beaten Ferris more than once in that time is Ashland, with two. I'm just not sure what you are expecting to get when Ferris currently has someone who is on par with what Brian Kelly was at GV, except he chooses not to move up. There's only so many of those coaches which exist. Mitchell isn't BK. Do you remember when Chuck Martin took over? He lost 3 games his first year and every GV fan wanted to run him out of town. Then he won two titles with BK's recruits. And then he got smoked by NW Missouri, got upset by Duluth, and then lost to Hillsdale and then lost to NW Missouri again and everyone was glad he left for Notre Dame.

Y'all are insatiable. You were spoiled by BK having three years of success after a decade of mediocrity and then Chuck continuing it for two more years before he started failing in the playoffs and we threw a party when he left.

I just don't know what the hell you are expecting. We're in a bad situation because Ferris found a very good coach who doesn't care about moving up. Again, I ask you. Do you want to blow everything up after going 23-3 over the last two years with two of those losses to the best coach in D-II and risk going back to total mediocrity as a program, or do you want to keep having success and at least having a fighting chance at beating Ferris? I don't know what the answer is. What is your answer?

Kle. You don't hold a coach accountable for someone else's players in their first two years? How about when you take over a team who's won four national championships in five years? And the only reason you have that job is because the previous coaches left to take d1 jobs because of the massive success they have had?


Annese is not on par with Brian Kelly. Do I have to mention BK's resume versus annese? BK was just hired by an sec school who fired their previous coach because it had been three years since he won a D1 national championship. There are less than a handful of college football coaches in the country with resumes better than bk. BK is arguably the greatest coach in the history of d2 football. Do I need to explain the history of gv football before and after bk?

I remember chuck martin's 2004 season. I sat in the second row at mid field behind the gv bench in the alerus center. I watched finnerty get screwed three times on fourth and inches on their way to blowing a nine point fourth quarter lead to the fighting Sioux.

Who was happy to see martin leave? He wasn't bk but he was very well appreciated. He won two championships. I admit I was not a fan of him in 2004 but 05 and 06 made up for it
You don't know what I'm expecting? I'm expecting that a team with our advantages will do more than what we've done over the last fifteen years under Mitchell leadership. When you go from four championships in five years with two coaches and two quarterbacks to nothing for fifteen years fans will have some questions

[FSUBulldog27]

Losers are the white trash that graduate from Ferris and wear cammo to football games. Enjoy your trip to the championship while we win at life.

always says the loser. Maybe my MBA after Ferris would be ok in your eyes.

[KleShreen]

Kle. You don't hold a coach accountable for someone else's players in their first two years? How about when you take over a team who's won four national championships in five years? And the only reason you have that job is because the previous coaches left to take d1 jobs because of the massive success they have had?


Annese is not on par with Brian Kelly. Do I have to mention BK's resume versus annese? BK was just hired by an sec school who fired their previous coach because it had been three years since he won a D1 national championship. There are less than a handful of college football coaches in the country with resumes better than bk. BK is arguably the greatest coach in the history of d2 football. Do I need to explain the history of gv football before and after bk?

I remember chuck martin's 2004 season. I sat in the second row at mid field behind the gv bench in the alerus center. I watched finnerty get screwed three times on fourth and inches on their way to blowing a nine point fourth quarter lead to the fighting Sioux.

Who was happy to see martin leave? He wasn't bk but he was very well appreciated. He won two championships. I admit I was not a fan of him in 2004 but 05 and 06 made up for it
You don't know what I'm expecting? I'm expecting that a team with our advantages will do more than what we've done over the last fifteen years under Mitchell leadership. When you go from four championships in five years with two coaches and two quarterbacks to nothing for fifteen years fans will have some questions

You're avoiding the obvious. I'm not saying Annese has BK's full resume. At THE DIVISION II LEVEL, he does. Are you conveniently leaving out that GV was the definition of mediocre for a full decade under BK before winning the last two years? And what did it take to win? The best D-II wide receiver in the history of D-II, and arguably the best QB in D-II history at the time. You realize that going back-to-back with the two best QB's Division II has ever seen is not normal or sustainable, right?

Every person on GVF was glad for Martin to go because GV ran the same handful of offensive plays over and over his entire tenure. You have a pretty short memory if you don't remember virtually every GV fan calling for his head from 2007 to 2009 and hoping BK would hire him away at CMU/Cincy/Notre Dame. He won the first 3 years because he had superior talent to everyone else in the country. Anyone who watched more than two quarters of GV football under Martin knew exactly what offensive play was coming just based on the formation and personnel the offense came out in, and everyone hated it. They won anyway. But that's not what D-II football is anymore. There were about five teams in the country who even tried to be good at football in the early/mid-2000's. GV, SV, NW Missouri, North Dakota, and a rotating group of like three schools who were good every couple years. Everyone else sucked. That's not the case anymore. There's about 20 teams that are serious about winning now, and about half of them are in our super region.

What advantages, exactly, does GV have anymore? We're not the only ones with an indoor facility anymore. Lubbers, as good of an atmosphere as it is for three games a year, is not a stadium with amenities or anything that many other stadiums don't have anymore. We get big crowds for the season-opener, SVSU, and Ferris, with okay crowds for the other games, and an empty stadium for the second half of every game no matter who it is. The school's location isn't anything to particularly write home about considering it's in the middle of a farm where the entire community around it hates that the school exists there because they don't like the traffic and noise. We've been good because we've been committed to winning with financial support across the entire athletic department.

You're still not answering what you would like to see happen. If you are going to fire a coach or staff who is routinely winning 10+ games a year, you better have a rock-solid, slam-dunk of a hire in mind and nearly the signature on paper already before you even think about getting rid of the existing coach. And, again, I'm asking you, are you going to be more content with losing multiple regular season games for a while under a new coach (and probably losing big to Ferris for a long time), as long as it's not Mitchell? Your only answer seems to be "anyone but Mitchell" with no real plan. I don't care either way, I'm always going to watch and hope for wins. Doesn't really matter to me who the coach is. But nobody else is able to beat Annese at Ferris more than Mitchell has, so I don't know what the answer is.

[dvaara]

You're avoiding the obvious. I'm not saying Annese has BK's full resume. At THE DIVISION II LEVEL, he does. Are you conveniently leaving out that GV was the definition of mediocre for a full decade under BK before winning the last two years? And what did it take to win? The best D-II wide receiver in the history of D-II, and arguably the best QB in D-II history at the time. You realize that going back-to-back with the two best QB's Division II has ever seen is not normal or sustainable, right?

Every person on GVF was glad for Martin to go because GV ran the same handful of offensive plays over and over his entire tenure. You have a pretty short memory if you don't remember virtually every GV fan calling for his head from 2007 to 2009 and hoping BK would hire him away at CMU/Cincy/Notre Dame. He won the first 3 years because he had superior talent to everyone else in the country. Anyone who watched more than two quarters of GV football under Martin knew exactly what offensive play was coming just based on the formation and personnel the offense came out in, and everyone hated it. They won anyway. But that's not what D-II football is anymore. There were about five teams in the country who even tried to be good at football in the early/mid-2000's. GV, SV, NW Missouri, North Dakota, and a rotating group of like three schools who were good every couple years. Everyone else sucked. That's not the case anymore. There's about 20 teams that are serious about winning now, and about half of them are in our super region.

What advantages, exactly, does GV have anymore? We're not the only ones with an indoor facility anymore. Lubbers, as good of an atmosphere as it is for three games a year, is not a stadium with amenities or anything that many other stadiums don't have anymore. We get big crowds for the season-opener, SVSU, and Ferris, with okay crowds for the other games, and an empty stadium for the second half of every game no matter who it is. The school's location isn't anything to particularly write home about considering it's in the middle of a farm where the entire community around it hates that the school exists there because they don't like the traffic and noise. We've been good because we've been committed to winning with financial support across the entire athletic department.

You're still not answering what you would like to see happen. If you are going to fire a coach or staff who is routinely winning 10+ games a year, you better have a rock-solid, slam-dunk of a hire in mind and nearly the signature on paper already before you even think about getting rid of the existing coach. And, again, I'm asking you, are you going to be more content with losing multiple regular season games for a while under a new coach (and probably losing big to Ferris for a long time), as long as it's not Mitchell? Your only answer seems to be "anyone but Mitchell" with no real plan. I don't care either way, I'm always going to watch and hope for wins. Doesn't really matter to me who the coach is. But nobody else is able to beat Annese at Ferris more than Mitchell has, so I don't know what the answer is.

GVSU was definitely mediocre before BK made the decision in 2000 to play all of his young guys. Anes, kircus, condon, westrick, etc. And turn the corner from mediocre to national champion. He was there for awhile before he turned GVSU into the premiere team in the country. What he did was amazing and may likely never be done again. Shirley you're not knocking BK
I'm not sure what you have against chuck martin but its clear you have some problem with him. He was no bk but he won two championships. That's two more than Mitchell will ever win.

What advantages does gv have? More than any team in d2. If Michigan wasn't playing in the b10 championship game I'd take the time to explain. Although you know anyhow

I did explain what I'd do. You just aren't listening. I made it clear that sparky is the man. Look what he did at Davenport. I find it strange that you keep insinuating that gv would lose multiple games at first if they changed coaches. As if we'd lose to Wayne and northern until the new coach figured things out???? Many of us believe Mitchell sucks and that we would instantly start winning the games that weve been losing the last decade and a half.

[Redwing]

I'll never want TA to coach a team I follow. For a reason, watch and then keep an ear open as to what happened post game today. The team is a reflection of it's coach. And that's just today's melee . Most know some of the skeletons in TA's closets and that only adds to it.

As for MM, look at his record. Really, look at his total record. He's done so with restrictions on the players that GV will allow into the school. FWIW, BK and CM had none of these University imposed restrictions. Still, MM has assembled some darn good talented teams. In fact, I think he has at least or maybe even slightly more talent than FSU this season. So let's give TA his due. I agree that TA is special game coach. Add to that, TA has a blank sheet as to who he can sign and that's a pretty darn good combination. Still, I will neve want him to run a program that I support. Never.

Some of you old guard here continue to think the BK/CM era can be reproduced. It can't and won't be. The landscape of D2 has changed a ton. Still, BK is perceived to be one of the best in the country and more or less a one off in D2. Sure he did wonders at GV.. with exclusive talent and a pretty long learning curve. CM... FWIW, he's still at Miami. I'm not sure he's a better head coach than MM. Even then, the Natty's weren't blow out affairs. So chill a bit on MM.

I'm as pissed as any GV "supporter" but throwing MM to the curb isn't the solution. Frankly, it's not entirely analogous but think how Saggy felt back then when Saggy was at the top of their game. How far did they get?

I'm done for now. I've got to warm up a bit and clear some emotions. I did see a damn good season. I'm looking forward to a better one next year. Losses against only one team over 2 years is nothing to be ashamed of. Disappointing yes. My glass is over 1/2 full.. Looks like some of yours are near empty. Get em filled up a bit.

[KleShreen]

GVSU was definitely mediocre before BK made the decision in 2000 to play all of his young guys. Anes, kircus, condon, westrick, etc. And turn the corner from mediocre to national champion. He was there for awhile before he turned GVSU into the premiere team in the country. What he did was amazing and may likely never be done again. Shirley you're not knocking BK
I'm not sure what you have against chuck martin but its clear you have some problem with him. He was no bk but he won two championships. That's two more than Mitchell will ever win.

What advantages does gv have? More than any team in d2. If Michigan wasn't playing in the b10 championship game I'd take the time to explain. Although you know anyhow

I did explain what I'd do. You just aren't listening. I made it clear that sparky is the man. Look what he did at Davenport. I find it strange that you keep insinuating that gv would lose multiple games at first if they changed coaches. As if we'd lose to Wayne and northern until the new coach figured things out???? Many of us believe Mitchell sucks and that we would instantly start winning the games that weve been losing the last decade and a half.

The only games that GV has been losing have been against Ferris lol. So who are you going to find better than Annese? Sparky is out here with the biggest transfer budget in the country and losing by 40+ to Annese. That's your answer?

I don't have anything against Chuck. I'm just reminding you of what the discussions were at the time. You seem to be having a bit of revisionist history with how GV fans talked about him following 06. I can still remember our own fans under the home press box yelling out our offensive plays as soon as the team lined up lol.

I just don't understand how anyone can be as upset as you and a few others are on here and calling for the head of the second-best D-II football program in the country. Just because it so happens that the best program happens to be our rival. You're living in the ancient past when the sport was entirely different lol. Nobody is winning 4 titles in 5 years anymore no matter what kind of program you have. GV is getting dominated by Ferris and even Ferris has only won one title in their decade of success lol. 4 out of 5 isn't happening anymore. That's not the landscape anymore. Alter your expectations. You are making the rest of us GV fans sound like the Michigan fans who talk about the 15 national titles Michigan won back in the 1900's when they were playing against school teachers and farmers.

[Redwing]

I did explain what I'd do. You just aren't listening. I made it clear that sparky is the man. Look what he did at Davenport. I find it strange that you keep insinuating that gv would lose multiple games at first if they changed coaches. As if we'd lose to Wayne and northern until the new coach figured things out???? Many of us believe Mitchell sucks and that we would instantly start winning the games that weve been losing the last decade and a half.

Huh? What did he do at DU? Maybe he's a good coach, I'm not there with him yet. You're showing some faith in Sparky that isn't yet backed up with results.

[GVLakerFan24]

I'll never want TA to coach a team I follow. For a reason, watch and then keep an ear open as to what happened post game today. The team is a reflection of it's coach. And that's just today's melee . Most know some of the skeletons in TA's closets and that only adds to it.

As for MM, look at his record. Really, look at his total record. He's done so with restrictions on the players that GV will allow into the school. FWIW, BK and CM had none of these University imposed restrictions. Still, MM has assembled some darn good talented teams. In fact, I think he has at least or maybe even slightly more talent than FSU this season. So let's give TA his due. I agree that TA is special game coach. Add to that, TA has a blank sheet as to who he can sign and that's a pretty darn good combination. Still, I will neve want him to run a program that I support. Never.

Some of you old guard here continue to think the BK/CM era can be reproduced. It can't and won't be. The landscape of D2 has changed a ton. Still, BK is perceived to be one of the best in the country and more or less a one off in D2. Sure he did wonders at GV.. with exclusive talent and a pretty long learning curve. CM... FWIW, he's still at Miami. I'm not sure he's a better head coach than MM. Even then, the Natty's weren't blow out affairs. So chill a bit on MM.

I'm as pissed as any GV "supporter" but throwing MM to the curb isn't the solution. Frankly, it's not entirely analogous but think how Saggy felt back then when Saggy was at the top of their game. How far did they get?

I'm done for now. I've got to warm up a bit and clear some emotions. I did see a damn good season. I'm looking forward to a better one next year. Losses against only one team over 2 years is nothing to be ashamed of. Disappointing yes. My glass is over 1/2 full.. Looks like some of yours are near empty. Get em filled up a bit.

What happened on the field after the game today? I was so bummed GV lost I got out of the stadium as quickly as possible and didn’t watch Ferris’s celebration.

[Redwing]

What happened on the field after the game today? I was so bummed GV lost I got out of the stadium as quickly as possible and didn’t watch Ferris’s celebration.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...l/69698812007/

And I think there were some other not so positive actions. I saw the end of it, so no clue as to who/how. But, I think there might have been some other classless actions elsewhere.