West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[CelticCoach]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I'm telling you guys, Monteroso is the real deal.

When he was in high school he used to come up and play pick up games with the team for fun. He more than held his own back then. He's also only a JR on the basketball floor according to the roster.

The last two games were NOT an anomaly for him.

I didn't see where Monteroso was a factor in this game against Shepherd. It looks to me that WLU does not have any depth right now along with poor shooting. We have not seen WLU away from home yet and FSU will be ready to go this weekend. I think this is were you need a big man to go to during these close games and not depend on being able to shoot the 3.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[QUOTE=MrAugustana;1987167]No matter how I try to set this up or frame it, I'm sure some WLU fans will take it the wrong way, but I promise I'm asking a legitimate question and not just trying to come in and talk trash. With this breakdown in mind, out of curiosity, what have teams done the past several years in the post-season to top the Toppers? I have watched 8-10 regular season games for WLU at different times, but they usually win those handily, and I've seen at least one regular-season loss where an off shooting night did them in (maybe Fairmont last year?...did Fairmont beat them?...I can't remember now), but what kinds of things were Stonehill, Metro State, Central Missouri, Lincoln Memorial, etc. able to do that average schools don't seem to be able to do against the Hilltoppers? Or did all of those games fall into the strategy you broke down above? [QUOTE]

Takes stamina, a willingness to stick with a slowdown game plan and poor outside shooting by WLU to beat them. Almost as important to WLUs success as shooting 3's is their constant harassing pressure...Teams don't get a "rest" when they are bringing the ball up or moving in the offensive zone. Over the course of a game, this wears all but the most deep/most conditioned teams down. Coaches are also pretty arrogant and want to impose THEIR will on the other team...if they are a "running team," they HATE to slow down. All but the most conditioned can't keep up and they wear down down the streatch of games. Doing those two things can set a foundation for beating WLU but the most important part is poor 3 point shooting by WLU. Catch WLU on a typical night and it doesn't usually matter how effectively a team deals with their constant pressure or how much the coach slows the game down...WLU will trade your 2 for 3 and win by 10.

So short answer, teams that have beaten the Toppers have usually had three things - Stamina to handle the constant pressure, a coach willing to truly slow the game down, and a cold shooting night by the Toppers.

An aside on this season, WLU seems to have lost it's 3 point mojo and there for is more than succptable to a team that can handle the defensive pressure AND can slow the game down! They don't solve their shooting problems and the L's will mount starting this Saturday v. Fairmont. Absent .400+ from 3, WLU is a pretty average team and will probably lose 6-8 games this year.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I didn't see where Monteroso was a factor in this game against Shepherd. It looks to me that WLU does not have any depth right now along with poor shooting. We have not seen WLU away from home yet and FSU will be ready to go this weekend. I think this is were you need a big man to go to during these close games and not depend on being able to shoot the 3.

Meine and Gauz out definitely effects our depth. Puts our 6th man (Smith) into the starting lineup and leaves us with one effective sub (Arnold) and he is a one position player (PG). Griffin and Kirkbride as your primary shooting subs doesn't strike fear in many opposing teams.

As for Monteroso last night it was a sub par game for him but he certainly was not alone in that respect. Hoehn was the only player that had a good scoring night with 24 points but I note that he went 9-19 (3-13 from 3) to get it. Shooting like that is not going to win you a whole lot of praise even if you get 24 points! BAD game all around.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I tried watching the Fairmont game. The Wheeling video feed had no sound, no score/clock on the screen and looked like it was being shot with a camcorder from 1988. All of that said, it was probably still better than listening to the homer announcers Wheeling usually has doing its games.

From what I did watch ... Wheeling had SO, SO, SO many chances to put that game away.

Back to the WL game ... seemed like when your big guy picked up his second foul pretty early a lot changed for the worse. That will be a major key versus Fairmont. I observed their bigs are very aggressive, fast and athletic. WL got stuck on 58 points last night for what seemed like 4-5 minutes. It happens. Take the win and move on to the next.

It will be interesting to see how the better teams, like a Fairmont, play against WL without that big inside threat (Seger). Shepherd did a very nice job last night. WL percentages were bad but Shep wasn't giving up wide-open looks, either (for the most part). I'd have to think the FSU strategy will be to attack Grossenbacher and try to get him in foul trouble quickly. If he's out they'll have a huge inside advantage. Easier said than done, however.

Fairmont still seems to resemble that very athletic, big team with a street-ball style. Drive the lane, chuck it up and see what happens from there. Granted, they do it very well.

[MrAugustana]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

No matter how I try to set this up or frame it, I'm sure some WLU fans will take it the wrong way, but I promise I'm asking a legitimate question and not just trying to come in and talk trash. With this breakdown in mind, out of curiosity, what have teams done the past several years in the post-season to top the Toppers? I have watched 8-10 regular season games for WLU at different times, but they usually win those handily, and I've seen at least one regular-season loss where an off shooting night did them in (maybe Fairmont last year?...did Fairmont beat them?...I can't remember now), but what kinds of things were Stonehill, Metro State, Central Missouri, Lincoln Memorial, etc. able to do that average schools don't seem to be able to do against the Hilltoppers? Or did all of those games fall into the strategy you broke down above?

Takes stamina, a willingness to stick with a slowdown game plan and poor outside shooting by WLU to beat them. Almost as important to WLUs success as shooting 3's is their constant harassing pressure...Teams don't get a "rest" when they are bringing the ball up or moving in the offensive zone. Over the course of a game, this wears all but the most deep/most conditioned teams down. Coaches are also pretty arrogant and want to impose THEIR will on the other team...if they are a "running team," they HATE to slow down. All but the most conditioned can't keep up and they wear down down the streatch of games. Doing those two things can set a foundation for beating WLU but the most important part is poor 3 point shooting by WLU. Catch WLU on a typical night and it doesn't usually matter how effectively a team deals with their constant pressure or how much the coach slows the game down...WLU will trade your 2 for 3 and win by 10.

So short answer, teams that have beaten the Toppers have usually had three things - Stamina to handle the constant pressure, a coach willing to truly slow the game down, and a cold shooting night by the Toppers.

An aside on this season, WLU seems to have lost it's 3 point mojo and there for is more than succptable to a team that can handle the defensive pressure AND can slow the game down! They don't solve their shooting problems and the L's will mount starting this Saturday v. Fairmont. Absent .400+ from 3, WLU is a pretty average team and will probably lose 6-8 games this year.

Appreciate the breakdown/insight. Good stuff.

[FlyHawk98]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Is it just me, or did West Lib used to use a full court press much more than we do now?

I'm sure there is a reason for it, I truly believe we have one of the best coaching staffs in all of D2. I'm just wondering if my memory is playing tricks on me or if we used to press more often?

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

No offense taken. Good question.
Here are my thoughts.
1. at both d3 and d2, when you get to the elite 8, the coaches are all very very good. Especially in getting their players to listen to them and actually follow direction. They value every possession. WLU does not get as many points due to brain cramps by the opponent while their coach pulls his/her hair out in frustration.
2. More likely to encounter teams with 2 athletic bigs who create problems inside. Lincoln Mem comes to mind - in addition, they had a career night shooting 3s much above their avg. IMHO with every successive recruiting class WLU is getting better pure athletes . But WLU needs another big for next year like grossenbacher who can shoot the 3. WLU is also playing much better defense with the better athletes, which helps when you are shooting < 20% wide open 3s in a half.
3. IMHO, 2 games in 2 days causes the shooting % for 3s to decline, which is the semifinal game.
4. some teams have comparable depth, which mitigates the fatigue factor of the WLU press.

It is tough getting a national title.

The issue with WLU is the wide variation in team 3 pt shooting %. They share the ball and all can shoot the 3. Against urbana they shot 60% 3s. Against Shepherd at one point in the 1st half they were shooting 11%. That will cost them some games.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Video won't work. Live stats freeze. Gave up.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

WLU lost to Fairmont 82-81. When you are a 3 pt shooting team and you go 9 for 30, you run a pretty good chance of losing. Monteroso did his best to put the team on his back scoring 32 pts but he got little help from his team mates with only Dennis (16) and Smith (10) scoring in double digits.

WLU needs to figure out whats going on with their 3 pt shooting and fix it. They lack the ability to be much more than average as a dribble drive team and as I've pointed out before, they have almost zero ability to play an inside game. They don't fix their 3 pt shooting and 6+ losses are a real possibility.

[MrAugustana]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

WLU lost to Fairmont 82-81. When you are a 3 pt shooting team and you go 9 for 30, you run a pretty good chance of losing. Monteroso did his best to put the team on his back scoring 32 pts but he got little help from his team mates with only Dennis (16) and Smith (10) scoring in double digits.

WLU needs to figure out whats going on with their 3 pt shooting and fix it. They lack the ability to be much more than average as a dribble drive team and as I've pointed out before, they have almost zero ability to play an inside game. They don't fix their 3 pt shooting and 6+ losses are a real possibility.

Two things:

1) This is definitely an indication of West Liberty's success over the past 8-10 years, but the idea that a 6-ish (or slightly more) loss season is seen as a cause for concern rather than a cause for celebration--when 90% of the teams in the country would be celebrating seasons that end up in the 6-8 loss range--is funny to me. In a good way for you guys.

2) Sounds like snagging this Monteroso dude has been pretty fortuitous for the Hilltoppers. Would be curious to know if somebody would be stepping up in his place if he hadn't joined the team or if you guys would be really having a tough time without him. I'd assume somebody would step up, but it seems like every time I pull up this thread, Monteroso has either been noted as the best or one of the two best players for WLU in whatever game was most recently played.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I'm not putting this mini-slump (Loss to Fairmont, close call vs Shepherd) all on the 3 pt percentages....9 / 30 yesterday is not terrible. 6-41 vs Sheperd is flat out terrble. They gave up far too many O rebounds / 2nd chance pts to Fairmont. Fairmont had 15 O Boards!..Over the years, this has been a bugaboo for the Hilltoppers...they let teams have too many chances. Also, the offense seemed stagnant too often yesterday. Personally, I don't think anyone in d2 can stay in front of David Dennis consistently, yet, he's chucking 3's...Too many 3's. He's option #7 from 3 pt range...

Monteroso can create, B Smith is solid and crafty.. Hoehn has been up and down this season...one good, one bad, etc..(and his 3 pt attempt with 20 secs left in the half yesterday was a KILLER...should've taken last shot, instead, FSU gets 5 pts in 20 secs) A sr should know better... Defintely miss Seger who could get shot off vs anyone when needed... I do think missing Meiney and Clay is impacting, but no excuse...

Also, Fairmont beat WL fair and square yesterday, but I still can't see them going anywhere in the E8...and that sounds like sour grapes, but it shouldn't. I'm pretty objective, and I think they turn it over, and shoot inconsistently. I know they beat #1 and #4 teams in the country this week, so I know I shouldn't say that they aren't worthy, but it's my feeling that they can be a team that gets upset, maybe we say that...But they made the plays yesterday, and WL didn't...

[Layton]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

We are really missing Clay and Eric without them we have no depth. Griffin and Primmer don't play he's still red shirting the two freshman French is out for the year so that leaves you with 7 yes SEVEN players trying to win games plus their poor shooting won't win you many games. Even then kirkbride doesn't give you very good minutes most of the time I didn't realize how bad of a spot we are in right now does anyone know when we might get those two back. As good as crutch is I think he really crapped the bed this recruiting cycle and it's showing now

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

My 'outsider view' from watching a few games now is opponents aren't respecting the inside game and because of it ... doing a much better job contesting the trey ball.

Shepherd did a pretty good job defensively on WL. That close game wasn't all poor shooting. The Rams forced a lot of those bad shots.

I totally agree on Dennis. He needs cut loose. It's like he's playing on egg shells and with a leash on.

It's still fairly early. My guess ... this is just some growing pains with adjusting to new roles. Fairmont started lights out last year, too. But, you're on to something with the offensive rebounding. That needs fixed.

It's going to be a big one at the KCAC on Dec. 19 - just stinks it's over break. Fairmont does have the look of an extremely good team. It showed a lot coming back yesterday and in the last 5 minutes of the Wheeling game.

All of this said, it sounds like WL still could have (should have?) won yesterday.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

This tells you everything you need to know about WLUs "inside game" - WLUs leading offensive rebounder yesterday was our back up PG...All 5'9"es of Brady Arnold had 3 offensive rebounds compared to the 2 that our 6'9" "big man" had. The reason teams dont respect our inside game is because we dont have one. Years past when we were shooting 50% from 3, that didnt matter...but now that we are shooting 30%, it means a whole lot!

[DownLow55]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

We are really missing Clay and Eric without them we have no depth. Griffin and Primmer don't play he's still red shirting the two freshman French is out for the year so that leaves you with 7 yes SEVEN players trying to win games plus their poor shooting won't win you many games. Even then kirkbride doesn't give you very good minutes most of the time I didn't realize how bad of a spot we are in right now does anyone know when we might get those two back. As good as crutch is I think he really crapped the bed this recruiting cycle and it's showing now

Lot's of panic on this site over 1 loss. As for the recruiting, it's easy to forget that Chuckie Humphries 6-6 (think rebounding) was a part of this class and did not qualify late------ and enrolled at Polk State JC in Florida. Finding a replacement that late in the cycle at any NCAA level is not easy. Bo Justice (3pt shooter) also transferred out late to Valdosta State. Finally WLU has lost to FSU 3 of the last 4 years and took what is probably their best team down to the wire on their home court . WL will be fine.