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  • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
    The one constant that comes with losing is the reappearance of the secondary style argument. Lol

    wlu has highest % wins of any d1 or d2 team over the last 13 years.
    Ben has highest % of wins of any coach with 5 years or more experience.
    st. Crutch has proven that the wlu philosophy is not a fluke at nova se.
    Win percentage doesn’t mean jack if you don’t win the big games! They don’t! Pack your bags and go home!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
      I note that if the players don't get it, don't listen to their coaches and on mass have relapses after a year of having the coaches in their ear on a daily basis, MAYBE they never will.

      Ben will not do ANY retooling because he doesn't think any needs to be done. I believe Watson transfers...While he shot .429 from 3, he didn't take NEARLY enough 3 tries (only 7 in 17 games) to warrant a roster spot. Coupled with Kovacavic leaving, MAYBE Ben is forced to bring in a transfer "big"...but just as likely he'll bring in another 6'3" "silky shooter" type with a "high basketball IQ." We love them and can never seem to get enough (why limit yourself to 10 on your roster when you can have 11...or even 12!!). Heck, Satterfield is 6'7" so we probably don't really need to bring in a big...I mean, the only thing they are good for is the opening jump ball! As long as Satterfield can make, and is willing to take, 3's, he'll be fine...he's a little light at 185 pounds but that just means he'll be quicker on the perimeter!

      Other transfer candidates include Powell and Web...Also think there will be one surprise transfer.
      Watson was extremely raw when he came to wlu. Great student, great character. Sky is the limit with him as he has the physical tools. Just needs time to develop.

      Webb - incredibly high basketball iq and valedictorian of his class. Would have redshirted except for yoakum's injury in preseason. Gym rat. Just needs time to get stronger and adjust to the college game.

      Powell just needs to work hard on his defensive technique, as he never was asked to play that in high school. Great shooter who just needs to become more complete player.

      Satterfield is a matchup nightmare. Just needs to hit the weights for college game. He is 6-7 with shooting guard skills.

      I think the future is very bright. Of course there may be transfers, but the coaches don't run players off who are trying.

      Fans need a reality check about West Liberty, wv. It is a frontier outpost location relative to Ft Lauderdale. Players come there to play for Ben and his style, in spite of its location. But the location can be an obstacle for some elite players.

      Suggesting significant changes in philosophy for a 29-3 team whose regular season losses were by a total of 4 points followed by an OT loss strains credibility.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

        Watson was extremely raw when he came to wlu. Great student, great character. Sky is the limit with him as he has the physical tools. Just needs time to develop.

        Webb - incredibly high basketball iq and valedictorian of his class. Would have redshirted except for yoakum's injury in preseason. Gym rat. Just needs time to get stronger and adjust to the college game.

        Powell just needs to work hard on his defensive technique, as he never was asked to play that in high school. Great shooter who just needs to become more complete player.

        Satterfield is a matchup nightmare. Just needs to hit the weights for college game. He is 6-7 with shooting guard skills.

        I think the future is very bright. Of course there may be transfers, but the coaches don't run players off who are trying.

        Fans need a reality check about West Liberty, wv. It is a frontier outpost location relative to Ft Lauderdale. Players come there to play for Ben and his style, in spite of its location. But the location can be an obstacle for some elite players.

        Suggesting significant changes in philosophy for a 29-3 team whose regular season losses were by a total of 4 points followed by an OT loss strains credibility.
        I'm sure all the guys you mentioned are great fellows who try really hard but at the end of the basketball day, it is about they produce in games and were they fit in the pecking order of the team. Satterfield was rail thin when recruited. I would imagine the coaches said you need to put on weight before you get here and here's a plan to do it. If he didn't (or couldn't) do that, that's a red flag. He's been in the program for a a season now...if he STILL hasn't been able to put on any weight, that's another red flag. He needs to be at about 205 before next season.

        This was Watson's second season and for whatever reason, the needle is moving in the wrong direction on him. He has gone from starter last year who averaged over 10 minutes a game, was an effective rebounder (.25/min...team leader Bolon averaged .27/min) and an improving inside scorer to a bench player to start his second season who averaged 8.5 MPG (but still used in the regular rotation) to a guy who played 6 MPG and often only during bench clearing time by the end of the season. Pretty clear that his skill set (rebounder/put back scorer) is not one that WLU values much. While I'd love to see him stay and develop into an inside force, I don't think Ben see's the same value in him. The WV State game is a perfect example of this, we sure could have used an active defender/rebounder to help Kovacvic counter Moore and Jordon (who were absolutely eating our lunch). Ben chose not to play Watson.

        Powell and Webb are largely clones of each other and duplications of many players we have on the roster. Do you really want them taking minutes from better versions of them we already have and will recruit this coming year, next year and the year after that?

        You seem to be saying that fans of WLU need to recalibrate their expectations...that WLU is to small and too remote to ever get the elite players we need to become a NC contender. That going 29-3 is somehow our ceiling and we should just be happy we can even achieve that. If our ceiling is just being happy to make the NCAA playoffs every year then what's the point in recruiting so hard to try and improve? Why bother trying to recruit better "athletes"? Ben and company could coast in with 6 or 7 losses and make the NCAA tourney every year with out all the pressure and aggrivation.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by IUPalum View Post

          Win percentage doesn’t mean jack if you don’t win the big games! They don’t! Pack your bags and go home!
          Nore does finishing high in statistical categories or having a ton of potential.

          The 2021-22 version of the Hilltoppers had flaws. Not the least of which was a confounding inability to shoot the 3. And we're not talking about shooting a few % points below average, we're talking about in the low teens. There was also a tendancy for the team, seemingly on mass, to revert to a street ball style that I've NEVER known WLU to play. Most night's, WLU was better than their opponents and would win inspite of these problems/tendencies. But on three occasions including against WVS, they weren't good enough to win anyway. And that's why their season is over.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

            I'm sure all the guys you mentioned are great fellows who try really hard but at the end of the basketball day, it is about they produce in games and were they fit in the pecking order of the team. Satterfield was rail thin when recruited. I would imagine the coaches said you need to put on weight before you get here and here's a plan to do it. If he didn't (or couldn't) do that, that's a red flag. He's been in the program for a a season now...if he STILL hasn't been able to put on any weight, that's another red flag. He needs to be at about 205 before next season.

            This was Watson's second season and for whatever reason, the needle is moving in the wrong direction on him. He has gone from starter last year who averaged over 10 minutes a game, was an effective rebounder (.25/min...team leader Bolon averaged .27/min) and an improving inside scorer to a bench player to start his second season who averaged 8.5 MPG (but still used in the regular rotation) to a guy who played 6 MPG and often only during bench clearing time by the end of the season. Pretty clear that his skill set (rebounder/put back scorer) is not one that WLU values much. While I'd love to see him stay and develop into an inside force, I don't think Ben see's the same value in him. The WV State game is a perfect example of this, we sure could have used an active defender/rebounder to help Kovacvic counter Moore and Jordon (who were absolutely eating our lunch). Ben chose not to play Watson.

            Powell and Webb are largely clones of each other and duplications of many players we have on the roster. Do you really want them taking minutes from better versions of them we already have and will recruit this coming year, next year and the year after that?

            You seem to be saying that fans of WLU need to recalibrate their expectations...that WLU is to small and too remote to ever get the elite players we need to become a NC contender. That going 29-3 is somehow our ceiling and we should just be happy we can even achieve that. If our ceiling is just being happy to make the NCAA playoffs every year then what's the point in recruiting so hard to try and improve? Why bother trying to recruit better "athletes"? Ben and company could coast in with 6 or 7 losses and make the NCAA tourney every year with out all the pressure and aggrivation.

            I understand fans are disappointed in 1st round loss. But it does no good to denigrate players from behind the computer keyboard. Tell it face to face to their parents. Tell me how it is received. Lol

            1. Players are turning down d1 offers to play at wlu. Ben is a tireless recruiter and has excellent judgment in the very inexact science of recruiting.
            ​​​​​​2. Players are getting stronger. That is a fact. New weight room is big addition.
            3. Very hard to go undefeated, regardless of style of play. Even nwmsu loses. However, everyone wants the final game to occur later in March.
            4. Location often plays a role in where a student decides to go to college. Parents have even told me that they were somewhat wary about the wlu location. That is reality.
            5. Other schools have scholarships and good players. Wvsu had a senior laden team that was arguably one of the most athletic in d2. When on, they are very hard to beat.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by IUPalum View Post
              The Boat capsized! Down goes the Titanic!
              We’ll wipe our tears with all of the final four, elite eight, and sweet 16 banners hanging in the ASRC

              Comment


              • Isnt Powell a Walkon or did he get put on scholarship?

                I’m down on Watson, Webb, Rasile. I think we can upgrade from McKinney in the starting lineup but I still want him around. I wonder about Denbow playing this style too but at least we’re getting his brother.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by IUPalum View Post
                  The Boat capsized! Down goes the Titanic!
                  Lol. Good one! Need more torpedos?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Layton View Post
                    Isnt Powell a Walkon or did he get put on scholarship?

                    I’m down on Watson, Webb, Rasile. I think we can upgrade from McKinney in the starting lineup but I still want him around. I wonder about Denbow playing this style too but at least we’re getting his brother.

                    Malik draws charges and shoots 50% from three. He and cmont are lock down guards. deadly on the drive. good judgment.

                    Zach has improved his defense impressively since last year. No longer just a 45% sniper and rarely commits turnovers. Hits the boards like Dyer. AD Ullom says Zach is now much more than a shooter.

                    I think Webb was playing not to make an offensive mistake with so many experienced teammates. Understandable for a freshman. He missed a lot of games in high school and was thrown into the fire due to yoakum injury.

                    Elijah is improving. When it clicks, he will become a human eraser, like keene cockburn. His minutes went down due to Viktor, emergence of sarson and of course Marlon.

                    Garrett shoots 45% from three. This is really his first year of college ball. Defense is improving. We recruited him hard out of high school. He will surprise next year imho.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Layton View Post

                      We’ll wipe our tears with all of the final four, elite eight, and sweet 16 banners hanging in the ASRC
                      (You realize IUP has been to two NC games, right? They have plenty of banners of their own).

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post


                        I understand fans are disappointed in 1st round loss. But it does no good to denigrate players from behind the computer keyboard. Tell it face to face to their parents. Tell me how it is received. Lol

                        1. Players are turning down d1 offers to play at wlu. Ben is a tireless recruiter and has excellent judgment in the very inexact science of recruiting.
                        ​​​​​​2. Players are getting stronger. That is a fact. New weight room is big addition.
                        3. Very hard to go undefeated, regardless of style of play. Even nwmsu loses. However, everyone wants the final game to occur later in March.
                        4. Location often plays a role in where a student decides to go to college. Parents have even told me that they were somewhat wary about the wlu location. That is reality.
                        5. Other schools have scholarships and good players. Wvsu had a senior laden team that was arguably one of the most athletic in d2. When on, they are very hard to beat.
                        If I were a coach, I would refrain from critiquing but I'm not. I don't think the problems players are having is a matter of not working hard. I think it's a matter of ability vice potential. It's also a matter of quantity and team style. Ben favors a particular type of player. If a player fits that style but is slow to develop, should you keep him around when other players with the same skill set develop quicker and are more helpful to the teams performance? Same with a player whos development shows he's probably not going to have a skill set that Ben finds useful. Should that player waist his time at WLU or should he seek to transfer to a program were his skills are more likely to be valued and utilized?

                        I dont know if any or all of the players I highlighted stay or chose to go but I do believe they are the most likley to be asking themselves if staying is in their best interest.
                        Last edited by boatcapt; 03-13-2022, 01:44 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Layton View Post
                          Isnt Powell a Walkon or did he get put on scholarship?

                          I’m down on Watson, Webb, Rasile. I think we can upgrade from McKinney in the starting lineup but I still want him around. I wonder about Denbow playing this style too but at least we’re getting his brother.
                          McKinney spent way too much time yapping with the crowd yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                            If I were a coach, I would refrain from critiquing but I'm not. I don't think the problems players are having is a matter of not working hard. I think it's a matter of ability vice potential. It's also a matter of quantity and team style. Ben favors a particular type of player. If a player fits that style but is slow to develop, should you keep him around when other players with the same skill set develop quicker and are more helpful to the teams performance? Same with a player whos development shows he's probably not going to have a skill set that Ben finds useful. Should that player waist his time at WLU or should he seek to transfer to a program were his skills are more likely to be valued and utalized?
                            Given the depth of your insight into most things WLU MBB, would you care to name any players on the current roster who have significant talent but simply don't, or won't, play the style BH demands of them. In other words who may be popping up on the TP thread in the next few days.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

                              McKinney spent way too much time yapping with the crowd yesterday.
                              He's definitely prone to some mental lapses (led the team in Technicals this season). But his defense is integral to what WLU is trying to do. McKinney was regularly tasked with checking the opponent's best player, and if you look at some of the league's star guards vs. WLU this season, they are, on the average, below their normal scoring output. That's in large part due to McKinney's constant pressure.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Scrub View Post

                                (You realize IUP has been to two NC games, right? They have plenty of banners of their own).
                                It’s not like they’re in a position to be talking down on us. Very similar programs.

                                Comment

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