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  • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
    Wvsu is a huge challenge. If they are clicking they can dominate. Took out embry riddle. Arguably best overall collection of 1-on-1 athletes in mec.
    Yup. State is always scary--especially when they're actually motivated (and what's more motivating than a one-and-done scenario?). The thing I hate most about the first round games against a conference opponent (at least in the case of WLU) is that the element of surprise is off the table. WVSU knows exactly what to expect and exactly what speed it'll come at you (whereas, someone like Malone was a little caught off guard last year). It seemed like in the past, much of WLU's success in this tournament traditionally hinged on teams being unfamiliar with what they do or how fast it actually comes at you when you're in it.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Scrub View Post

      Yup. State is always scary--especially when they're actually motivated (and what's more motivating than a one-and-done scenario?). The thing I hate most about the first round games against a conference opponent (at least in the case of WLU) is that the element of surprise is off the table. WVSU knows exactly what to expect and exactly what speed it'll come at you (whereas, someone like Malone was a little caught off guard last year). It seemed like in the past, much of WLU's success in this tournament traditionally hinged on teams being unfamiliar with what they do or how fast it actually comes at you when you're in it.
      possible silver lining:
      If we can somehow get by wvsu, it only gives psac teams one day or so to prepare for us. Last year hillsdale coach said it was very hard to prepare for wlu with just one days rest.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
        The MEC tourney demonstrated the versatility and grittiness of wlu. This is a different team from the traditional wlu team that depended on good three point shooting.

        wheeling, fairmont and Charleston all used different strategies with considerable success and wlu weathered them despite some sub-par aspects of their games.

        Unlike past teams, this team has the defensive half court chops to play a 1940s era low scoring half court high post low post game. We now have 4 players who can guard a post player in Viktor, Marlon, Bryce, and Sarson. We also have lockdown defensive guards.

        Wvsu is a huge challenge. If they are clicking they can dominate. Took out embry riddle. Arguably best overall collection of 1-on-1 athletes in mec.
        Good thing we dont depend on good 3pt shooting because on several occasions, it has let us down. To say they are streaky is an understatement...this team can go from shooting 52% from 3 (vs Wheeling the last game of the season) to 20% from 3 (Wheeling) to 52% (Fairmont game) the next night then shooting 17% (UC game) the next night!!
        Last edited by boatcapt; 03-07-2022, 05:46 PM.

        Comment


        • I am not a fan of the 3 games in 3 days format of the MEC tourney. IMHO, the championship game should be preceded by a day of rest. I think it would allow for a higher quality game. IMHO, the current setup favors a team with quality depth, like WLU.

          Observations on WLU – Charleston MEC Final 3/6/22 WLU won 70-59

          This game was a dramatic contrast in styles – UC runs a half-court, set play offense, while WLU traps on makes and misses, pushes the ball and relies on the players to make the correct decisions in real time based on the situation and much fewer set plays.
          This game proved that WLU has the defensive chops to play a half-court defensive, slow-down game against a big, physical team with good guards.
          WLU outscored UC 36-16 in the last 13:43 of the game, coming back from an 8 point deficit.

          With 3:30 left, the WLU lead was three, until WLU outscored UC 13-5 in the remainder of the game.

          UC Strategy
          • UC is a tall team that also has three-point shooters.
          • Their offense runs through McManus, a large, strong, agile, inside player with great footwork – all conference player. He is nearly impossible to stop if you play behind him. If you double team him, he will kick the ball out to a teammate for an open three.
          • They will try to draw fouls from WLU in the paint.
          • Have a good shooting night
          • If UC breaks the press, they will not attack the rim in most cases; they will wait and start their offense and use much of the shot clock to shorten the game.
          • They will attack the boards hard to try to reduce WLU dominance on the boards.
          • They must play great defense/
          UC checked many of the boxes that were goals for beating WLU:
            • Avoid getting sped up into a run and shoot game – Check –
            • Make WLU score inside – Check – WLU only shot 18% from three on 17 attempts
            • Great defense – check – this was a defensive slugfest
            • Offensive rebounds – check – tied WLU
            • Total rebounds – check – only a 4-rebound advantage for WLU
            • Limit turnovers
            • Keep the score no higher than the 80s – Check – WLU got 70
            • Play extremely hard on both ends of the court – Check
          • UC goals that were not met
            • Turnovers – UC committed 15 turnovers
            • Foul shooting – 58% - 8-point advantage for WLU
            • Three-point shooting – 12%
            • WLU defense was also great – limiting UC to just 39% effective FG%, which is amazing considering the inside scoring presence of McManus.

          Keys to WLU Victory
          • Intense Defense (both trapping and half-court defense) and active hands by the guards
          • Intense pressure causing fatigue, which IMHO led to poor FT %, for a team playing 3rd game in 3 days. In a tight game, the pressure causes just enough mental lapses to give WLU an edge, such as the UC player losing track of time and getting a 10 second call.
          • Viktor’s three-point shooting drew McManus away from the paint, allow for WLU offensive rebounds.
          • Post defense by committee made McManus work very hard – Marlon, Viktor and Bryce
          • Bryce’s great defensive footwork enabled him to draw 2 charges on McManus late in the game, fouling him out.
          • Unselfish play to avoid getting baited to go inside and try difficult, contested shots
          • FT shooting % was difference in score.


          Statistic WLU Opponent Advantage To:
          Team WLU Charleston - MEC Tourney
          Date 03/06/22 3/6/2022
          Score 70-59 WLU
          w/l W L WLU
          FG 24 23 =
          FGA 58 61 UC
          FG Pct 41% 38% WLU
          3FG 3 2 =
          3 FGA 17 17 =
          3 FG PCT 18% 12% =
          FT 19 11 WLU
          FTA 26 19 WLU
          FT PCT 73% 58% WLU
          Off Reb 12 12 =
          Def Reb 28 24 WLU
          Tot Reb 40 36 WLU
          Reb Per Game 38.8 33.9 WLU
          PF 21 26 WLU
          Assist 10 8 WLU
          TO 12 15 WLU
          Blk 2 1 WLU
          Stl 7 6 =
          Pts 70 59 WLU
          Avg Pts Per Game 100.0 80.0 WLU
          Steals per Forced TO 47% 50% UC
          Assist to TO Ratio 0.83 0.53 WLU
          Assist per FG 42% 35% WLU
          Points Per FGA 1.21 0.97 WLU
          Points Per Possession 1.01 0.82 WLU
          Num Possessions 69 72 =
          OppDefReb 24 28 WLU
          Off Reb Effic 33% 30% =
          Forced TO 15 12 WLU
          Game num 31 31 =
          Two Pt FG % 51.2% 47.7% WLU
          Effective Shooting % 44.0% 39.3% WLU
          Last edited by Columbuseer; 03-08-2022, 01:54 PM.

          Comment


          • McManus must be a nightmare for the referees. His primary offensive strategy is to simply overpower you, and he does so by planting his shoulder into the defender's chest and moving him. If the referees call it straight up (at least MEC style), McManus would have 5 fouls in the first 10 minutes of every game. So, the refs often have to decide to let him get away with a certain amount of it. But then they're left later in the game to figure out where to draw the line. And when they do decide to draw the line--often somewhat arbitrarily--then Osborne is upset that the charges are getting called now. McManus just presents a lose-lose situation for the refs. McManus would fit right in the old-time PSAC, but he's a unicorn in the MEC, so MECs refs often have no idea what to do with him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
              I am not a fan of the 3 games in 3 days format. IMHO, the championship game should be preceded by a day of rest.
              ...I'm pretty sure it is?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Inkblot View Post

                ...I'm pretty sure it is?
                MEC tournament

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Layton View Post

                  MEC tournament
                  Yep. I meant MEC tourney.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Scrub View Post
                    McManus must be a nightmare for the referees. His primary offensive strategy is to simply overpower you, and he does so by planting his shoulder into the defender's chest and moving him. If the referees call it straight up (at least MEC style), McManus would have 5 fouls in the first 10 minutes of every game. So, the refs often have to decide to let him get away with a certain amount of it. But then they're left later in the game to figure out where to draw the line. And when they do decide to draw the line--often somewhat arbitrarily--then Osborne is upset that the charges are getting called now. McManus just presents a lose-lose situation for the refs. McManus would fit right in the old-time PSAC, but he's a unicorn in the MEC, so MECs refs often have no idea what to do with him.
                    Imho, playing a dominant low post player like mcmanus is a choice between 2 primary strategies (among others):

                    1) play in front of the post player to deny the ball. It requires coordination with the on ball defender to harass and make the entry looping high pass as difficult as possible. Takes significant energy by both defenders to make it work. Vulnerable to looping pass over defender's head, but this is a challenging pass. This is my preference

                    2) play behind the post player and try to contest shot without fouling. Non trivial task with McManus because he initiates contact. On ball defender also needs to try to deny entry pass, which is a much easier pass to execute than option 1. An adjunct option is to have a guard collapse after mcmanus takes first dribble to make him pick up the ball and disrupt his rhythym. Then the guard must sprint away to resume defending his opponent. Vulnerable to the kick out pass for an open three.

                    wlu tried option 2 with no guard help at first. They then tried option 1, which made mcmanus expend a lot of energy.
                    when wlu was caught behind mcmanus, bryce was adept at drawing charges, probably he was used to defending low post In high school.

                    We collapsed with a guard on occasion in option 2 to mix it up, and fortunately no one burned us with a three. We also baited them in a zone and quickly triple teamed, forcing a turnover. Great one time defensive set to steal a possession.

                    Comment


                    • FYI
                      West Liberty National Statistical Ranking D2 – 3/6/22
                      • Some West Liberty stats moved both up and down after the MEC tourney, due to the stiff competition and 3 games in three days.
                      • The stats that are totaled over the entire season are now becoming biased toward those teams that continue to play in the post-season (like Total Free Throws Attempted)
                      • Points per possession for an amazing 1.25 points per possession.
                      • West Liberty is in the top 4 nationally in 8 categories!
                      • West Liberty is in the top 10 nationally in 10 categories!
                      • 90th percentile in 14 categories!
                      • WLU season FG shooting remains at 4th in nation at FG 51.57%
                      • WLU 3FG% edged downward to 38.48% (22nd in nation)
                      • Assists are #2, at 20.2 a game, which is an indicator of how much they share the ball, especially when one considers the scoop and scores on steals, which are generally not applicable for assists
                      • Assist to turnover ratio is 4th at an amazing 1.66, considering the rapid pace of play and the increased number of possessions in a game.
                      • Turnover margin at #3 (+6.3 per game), could improve even more.
                      Date National Ranking West Liberty rank Value
                      3/6/2022 Scoring Offense 1 100.00
                      3/6/2022 Scoring Margin 2 19
                      3/6/2022 Assists Per Game 2 20.20
                      3/6/2022 Steals Per Game 3 10.70
                      3/6/2022 Turnover Margin 3 6.50
                      3/6/2022 Turnovers Forced 3 18.74
                      3/6/2022 Assist Turnover Ratio 4 1.66
                      3/6/2022 Field-Goal Percentage 4 51.57
                      3/6/2022 Free-Throw Attempts 8 660
                      3/6/2022 Three-Point Field Goals Per Game 10 10.50
                      3/6/2022 Three-Point Attempts 12 842
                      3/6/2022 Free-Throw Made 12 479
                      3/6/2022 Offensive Rebounds per game 16 13.10
                      3/6/2022 Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage 22 38.48
                      3/6/2022 Rebound Margin 35 4.00
                      3/6/2022 Total Rebounds per game 35 38.77
                      3/6/2022 Blocked Shots Per Game 60 3.60
                      3/6/2022 Free-Throw Percentage 111 72.58
                      3/6/2022 Defensive Rebounds per game 147 25.68
                      3/6/2022 Field-Goal Percentage Defense 202 45.60

                      Comment


                      • OT

                        Curious...
                        Any thoughts on how Fairmont will game plan against Cal and Alston?
                        Fairmont has some 3 pt shooters in vonhandorf 39.5%, sanders 35.5%, Dobbs 38.8% and Parris 44.4%
                        great ft shooters too.

                        Trade 3 for 2s from Alston?
                        try to get him in foul trouble?
                        use:
                        Whippen? Whippen good? (couldn't resist lol)
                        Sanders on Alston?
                        zone?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
                          OT

                          Curious...
                          Any thoughts on how Fairmont will game plan against Cal and Alston?
                          Fairmont has some 3 pt shooters in vonhandorf 39.5%, sanders 35.5%, Dobbs 38.8% and Parris 44.4%
                          great ft shooters too.

                          Trade 3 for 2s from Alston?
                          try to get him in foul trouble?
                          use:
                          Whippen? Whippen good? (couldn't resist lol)
                          Sanders on Alston?
                          zone?
                          Can’t trade 3 for 2… Cal has some shooters and Alston might surprise you from there.

                          Comment


                          • After Younkin's injury and throughout the tourney, Fairmont was regularly running some kind of 1-2-2 zone. I would guess they'll go to some variation of a zone. Neither Whippen (who is a Cal transfer by the way) nor Mangas is anywhere near equipped to deal with Alston one-on-one.

                            Sanders is certainly a talented athlete and good leaper (he jumped center in the post-Younkin MEC tourney games), but I would think you'd risk too much foul trouble on the one guy you can't afford to be without if Sanders were tasked with hanging with Alston.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
                              OT

                              Curious...
                              Any thoughts on how Fairmont will game plan against Cal and Alston?
                              Fairmont has some 3 pt shooters in vonhandorf 39.5%, sanders 35.5%, Dobbs 38.8% and Parris 44.4%
                              great ft shooters too.

                              Trade 3 for 2s from Alston?
                              try to get him in foul trouble?
                              use:
                              Whippen? Whippen good? (couldn't resist lol)
                              Sanders on Alston?
                              zone?

                              A 6'5", 170 lb true freshman has absolutely no chance against Alston.

                              So, does FSU essentially say he's going to get his but we'll hammer the other four dudes?

                              LIke I said in the other thread, Alston put up 36 and 16 on FSU WITH Younkin in the lineup.

                              He's just a physical freak for the D2 level. He's big. He's fast. He's incredibly strong. He can shoot. He can jump out of the building.

                              On one hand, you say FSU needs to run and gun. But, that's actually how Cal likes to play. If you slow it down and play half-court, Alston will score 55 on the freshman. That kid will be fouled out by halftime.

                              Don't forget Pegram is an elite guard. Collins and Boswell have been sporadic but they are solid, too. The Vulcans have to dangerous small forwards.

                              FSU's only prayer in this game is to get Alston in foul trouble. If they can do that early ... it's game on. If not, I just can't see any possible way FSU stays in this game.

                              Cal's weakness ... well, just watch the IUP games. It's abundantly clear. It has nothing to do with Alston. He's getting 25 & 14 no matter what you try on him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Scrub View Post
                                After Younkin's injury and throughout the tourney, Fairmont was regularly running some kind of 1-2-2 zone. I would guess they'll go to some variation of a zone. Neither Whippen (who is a Cal transfer by the way) nor Mangas is anywhere near equipped to deal with Alston one-on-one.

                                Sanders is certainly a talented athlete and good leaper (he jumped center in the post-Younkin MEC tourney games), but I would think you'd risk too much foul trouble on the one guy you can't afford to be without if Sanders were tasked with hanging with Alston.
                                Based on the other comments as well as yours, I tend to side with you on using some type of zone, which is considered when a team does not match up athletically. A box and 1, where 4 players play zone and 1 player chases Alston to deny the ball might be tried, but I have doubts as to its effectiveness.

                                They probably don't have time to master anything other than 1-2-2. They will give up open looks from three and
                                It leaves openings for cal rebounding.

                                Probably will need cal to have bad shooting night.

                                Comment

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