West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

Not at all.

For many commits, GPA is conspicuous by its absence.
As u know, n hs, one can take college level courses and get college credit. Great deal financially. Some kids come out of hs as sophs in terms of college credits. I think if you get an A in colllege credit, it counts as 5.0 not a 4.0 course.

trouble is the college courses are very time consuming especially if held on college campus. So regular grades may suffer.

If you don't have 4.0 but 3.5+ AND took challenging courses, active in clubs, volunteering, it may carry more weight than a 4.0+ bookworm in terms of scholarship. $.
First hand experience.

What is sad is # of d1 athletic full rides relative to college funded academic full rides. Many high performing students only get modest, if any help.

To this point, I believe in a number of states (I believe WV is in that group), athletic schollys are funded outside of the school budget so they have little if any effect on scholly money that high performing students receive.

[Columbuseer]

To this point, I believe in a number of states (I believe WV is in that group), athletic schollys are funded outside of the school budget so they have little if any effect on scholly money that high performing students receive.

i think you are correct. But fees from regular students is used to feed the d1 arms race for many d1 schools. Besides tuition, there are fees to attend college, which run between $2k and $5k per year and are rising at a rate that is 13% higher than tuition increases. Upwards of 80% go to fund d1 athletics ( per Forbes ).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/20...etic-programs/

With the billions of $ spent on essentially a minor pro league, i expect parents to revolt on being charged.

The disparity in private funding for full ride academic scholarships compared to athletic support sadly reflects the priorities of the nation.
No wonder other countries are dominating our PhDs awarded and we have to import the best and brightest for our high tech R&D jobs. D2 and D3 are much closer to the term student athlete

[Columbuseer]

Fyi
Audrey Tingle got the MEC Female Athlete of the Year for all sports.
Congrats Audry!
She and Bryce Butler made it a wlu sweep of the award!

[boatcapt]

i think you are correct. But fees from regular students is used to feed the d1 arms race for many d1 schools. Besides tuition, there are fees to attend college, which run between $2k and $5k per year and are rising at a rate that is 13% higher than tuition increases. Upwards of 80% go to fund d1 athletics ( per Forbes ).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/20...etic-programs/

With the billions of $ spent on essentially a minor pro league, i expect parents to revolt on being charged.

The disparity in private funding for full ride academic scholarships compared to athletic support sadly reflects the priorities of the nation.
No wonder other countries are dominating our PhDs awarded and we have to import the best and brightest for our high tech R&D jobs. D2 and D3 are much closer to the term student athlete

Couple of points, first the Forbes article is from 2014. Doesn't mean it is wrong, just that it is a little stale and a number of the links in the article now link to other information (if I want to know how to stack dormatory beds, I now know were to find that information!). One of the links that was still live is from an undated USA Today article that includes information from one student that at the end of her 5 years at Radford, she would have $5,000 in athletic fees. That appears to be a big number until you consider that this same student will rack up over $11,000 in other fees during her 5 year Radford stay including. A sublinked table to the USA Today report that shows the D1 data used in the article shows that the average fee amount charged by D1 schools that go to athletics is $360.41/yr.

To clarify, the 80% is the upper end of the percentage of fees that go to athletics and only present at a few universities.

[Columbuseer]

Couple of points, first the Forbes article is from 2014. Doesn't mean it is wrong, just that it is a little stale and a number of the links in the article now link to other information (if I want to know how to stack dormatory beds, I now know were to find that information!). One of the links that was still live is from an undated USA Today article that includes information from one student that at the end of her 5 years at Radford, she would have $5,000 in athletic fees. That appears to be a big number until you consider that this same student will rack up over $11,000 in other fees during her 5 year Radford stay including. A sublinked table to the USA Today report that shows the D1 data used in the article shows that the average fee amount charged by D1 schools that go to athletics is $360.41/yr.

To clarify, the 80% is the upper end of the percentage of fees that go to athletics and only present at a few universities.

Last I checked, Radford does not have a football team, so it may not be relevant.

Although the article is 2014, few would argue that athletic budgets have not risen substantially since 2014. Since Forbes is a financial magazine, I suspect that they have done a better job of framing the financials than the typical "journalist".

here is 2019 article from Dayton Daily News that claims State of Ohio D1 schools are spending $181M a year subsidizing D1 athletics.
Interesting table within. Miami OH has $17,3M in student fees and $7,3M in University support for a total of $24.6M in subsidies for D1 athletics.https://www.daytondailynews.com/news...HbzhQmsXGOriO/


Meaningful data is difficult to pin down. Highly skewed populations can really mess with averages - median or quartiles are much better measure in those cases. D1 football follows an 80-20 rule - 20 of schools make 80% (maybe 90-10 LOL) of the $.

Don't know about the average of $360.41 quoted in the reference - is that average per student in USA - average charge per college, (sample size of 300), average charge per Power 5 school?

Univ of Md fees 22-23 are $1528 per year
UCLA fees are about $4k per year, with $1176 going to student services, which is where D1 athletic fees are hidden (they don't readily broadcast how much the D1 monster is consuming). Another $12K at UCLA is undergrad tuition. I picked UCLA and MD because their athletic departments were losing big $ before joining the Big 10. UCLA Ath Dept is $100M in debt. If memory serves me correctly, U. of MD was $40+M in debt before Big 10. Without UnderArmor support, things could have gotten ugly.

I wonder if the fees for the non Power 5 D1 FBS schools (like MAC schools) might be higher, since they don't have the attendance and TV contracts.
When the subset of Power 5 break away from the NCAA, a revenue stream for non P5, D2 and D3 could dry up.

[boatcapt]

Last I checked, Radford does not have a football team, so it may not be relevant.

Although the article is 2014, few would argue that athletic budgets have not risen substantially since 2014. Since Forbes is a financial magazine, I suspect that they have done a better job of framing the financials than the typical "journalist".

here is 2019 article from Dayton Daily News that claims State of Ohio D1 schools are spending $181M a year subsidizing D1 athletics.
Interesting table within. Miami OH has $17,3M in student fees and $7,3M in University support for a total of $24.6M in subsidies for D1 athletics.https://www.daytondailynews.com/news...HbzhQmsXGOriO/


Meaningful data is difficult to pin down. Highly skewed populations can really mess with averages - median or quartiles are much better measure in those cases. D1 football follows an 80-20 rule - 20 of schools make 80% (maybe 90-10 LOL) of the $.

Don't know about the average of $360.41 quoted in the reference - is that average per student in USA - average charge per college, (sample size of 300), average charge per Power 5 school?

Univ of Md fees 22-23 are $1528 per year
UCLA fees are about $4k per year, with $1176 going to student services, which is where D1 athletic fees are hidden (they don't readily broadcast how much the D1 monster is consuming). Another $12K at UCLA is undergrad tuition. I picked UCLA and MD because their athletic departments were losing big $ before joining the Big 10. UCLA Ath Dept is $100M in debt. If memory serves me correctly, U. of MD was $40+M in debt before Big 10. Without UnderArmor support, things could have gotten ugly.

I wonder if the fees for the non Power 5 D1 FBS schools (like MAC schools) might be higher, since they don't have the attendance and TV contracts.
When the subset of Power 5 break away from the NCAA, a revenue stream for non P5, D2 and D3 could dry up.

Since this is a DII board, I wonder how much support DII's give to their athletic programs, I wonder how much in additional fees students pay per year to support athletics and I wonder how forthcoming the schools are in reporting those numbers? I also wonder how much colleges in general provide to support other extra curricular student activities that do not directly impact a students GPA? Things like new Student Unions, campus wide free WiFi, etc, etc that students think are "free" really aren't free.

Skewed data...yep! Seems like each side has it's own unique data sets and they often differ wildly. I don't think either side is lying just that they have certain axes to grind and highlight data that supports their particular world view.

One thing I would probably be willing to bet a large sum on...IF a college in the MAC (or another that charges an egregiously large amount in athletic related fees) shuttered their athletic programs completely, the school probably would NOT refund the entire athletic fee to students. They may make a show of cutting the athletic fee but I can almost guarantee you would see another fee )or 2 or 3) quietly increased by a corresponding amount. Schools ain't in the business of giving money BACK!!!!!!

The 360 was the average of the yearly amount paid by students for athletic programs from the USA Today article.

As to UofMD's $40M debt (which drove their move to the BIG 10), this SI article from 2012 summarizes how they got to that point: https://www.si.com/more-sports/2012/...land-athletics

Key takeaways:

1. Poor fundraising - Maryland's athletic department, like most public university departments, is a self-sufficient auxiliary unit; no state funds can be allocated toward athletics. Scholarships are paid through donations and revenues, increasing the need for successful teams and generous donors in order for the athletic department to survive.

2. Poor performance by revenue generating teams (read football and mens basketball) - Poor results depressed donations which increased the debt. It seems AD Yow relied on pretty rosy performance projections (and the alumni donations that performance would inspire) and failed to adjust her revenue projections based on actual performance.

3. Spending on non-revenue sports - AD Yow expanded the athletic department, funneling non-bond money into non-revenue-generating sports, and she commenced a decade-long facelift to several athletic facilities including the Terrapin Softball Complex, built a new facility for field hockey and lacrosse, renovated its soccer and baseball facilities.

4. Spending on supposed revenue sports - While much of the money was provided by bonds, AD Yow built the $125M Xfinity Center primarily for the basketball programs and funded $51M for renovations to Byrd Stadium for the football program. Note, bonds don't pay themselves off!!!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Since this is a DII board, I wonder how much support DII's give to their athletic programs, I wonder how much in additional fees students pay per year to support athletics and I wonder how forthcoming the schools are in reporting those numbers? I also wonder how much colleges in general provide to support other extra curricular student activities that do not directly impact a students GPA? Things like new Student Unions, campus wide free WiFi, etc, etc that students think are "free" really aren't free.

Skewed data...yep! Seems like each side has it's own unique data sets and they often differ wildly. I don't think either side is lying just that they have certain axes to grind and highlight data that supports their particular world view.

One thing I would probably be willing to bet a large sum on...IF a college in the MAC (or another that charges an egregiously large amount in athletic related fees) shuttered their athletic programs completely, the school probably would NOT refund the entire athletic fee to students. They may make a show of cutting the athletic fee but I can almost guarantee you would see another fee )or 2 or 3) quietly increased by a corresponding amount. Schools ain't in the business of giving money BACK!!!!!!

The 360 was the average of the yearly amount paid by students for athletic programs from the USA Today article.

As to UofMD's $40M debt (which drove their move to the BIG 10), this SI article from 2012 summarizes how they got to that point: https://www.si.com/more-sports/2012/...land-athletics

Key takeaways:

1. Poor fundraising - Maryland's athletic department, like most public university departments, is a self-sufficient auxiliary unit; no state funds can be allocated toward athletics. Scholarships are paid through donations and revenues, increasing the need for successful teams and generous donors in order for the athletic department to survive.

2. Poor performance by revenue generating teams (read football and mens basketball) - Poor results depressed donations which increased the debt. It seems AD Yow relied on pretty rosy performance projections (and the alumni donations that performance would inspire) and failed to adjust her revenue projections based on actual performance.

3. Spending on non-revenue sports - AD Yow expanded the athletic department, funneling non-bond money into non-revenue-generating sports, and she commenced a decade-long facelift to several athletic facilities including the Terrapin Softball Complex, built a new facility for field hockey and lacrosse, renovated its soccer and baseball facilities.

4. Spending on supposed revenue sports - While much of the money was provided by bonds, AD Yow built the $125M Xfinity Center primarily for the basketball programs and funded $51M for renovations to Byrd Stadium for the football program. Note, bonds don't pay themselves off!!!

They also did a complete gut of Cole Field House and re-built it in to a new indoor football facility. That was a massive project.

[Columbuseer]

After subtracting revenues, Median subsidy for d2 athletic depts that have football is 4.5m a year.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...XkuWP1ykOJvEKf

[Columbuseer]

Great news! Viktor kovacevic' has signed a pro contract with the 2nd highest level pro league in Spain!
His one year playing wlu style of ball paid big dividends in showcasing his complete skill set.
https://hilltoppersports.com/news/20...-contract.aspx

[boatcapt]

After subtracting revenues, Median subsidy for d2 athletic depts that have football is 4.5m a year.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...XkuWP1ykOJvEKf

And who funds the $4.5M?

[Columbuseer]

Getting really excited about this year's team...
imho:
- may be the fastest team in recent years
- the bigs can run with the guards, shoot, rebound and handle the ball.
- everyone is strong defensively
- everyone is super competitive with high motors.
- everyone rapidly passes the ball until someone gets an open shot. No hero ball. It doesn't stick like last year.
- evenly matched talent top to bottom of roster

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Getting really excited about this year's team...
imho:
- may be the fastest team in recent years
- the bigs can run with the guards, shoot, rebound and handle the ball.
- everyone is strong defensively
- everyone is super competitive with high motors.
- everyone rapidly passes the ball until someone gets an open shot. No hero ball. It doesn't stick like last year.
- evenly matched talent top to bottom of roster

On paper, I'd agree. Roster looks strong and deep. At this stage, I'd put IUP and WL on a collision course.

Question will be how these imports adjust to being part-time players. That has to be the biggest challenge.

[Columbuseer]

On paper, I'd agree. Roster looks strong and deep. At this stage, I'd put IUP and WL on a collision course.

Question will be how these imports adjust to being part-time players. That has to be the biggest challenge.

Good points.
To mitigate some of these risks:

- wlu makes it clear to recruits that even All Americans rarely avg. over 27 mins a game. The level of effort required for the style mandates a deep bench. Nine or more guys usually get 15 mins or more a game.
- if at all possible, wlu wants recruits to play open gym against existing players, so the recruit can assess the fit.
- wlu gets 20% more possessions a game. So a 36 min per game guy elsewhere may only get the same number of possessions as a 27 min per game player at wlu. In addition, a wlu possession requires active participation from all 5 players.
- if transfers have <= 2 years, they have to stay the course. Another transfer makes them sit a year unless it is a grad transfer year.
- nearly all transfers come to wlu for the style.

- Bigger risk may be star hs players, who underestimate the higher skill level that is required to play at elite d2 schools. Some can't handle being a little fish in a big pond for 3 years and can't wait their turn.

[Columbuseer]

Just saw this tweet...
23 of 25! Wow!
Could Cmont Montague be the next Seger Bonifant from three? (Seger averaged over 52% for career, best in ncaa history). We have quite the collection of 3 pt snipers!

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Pat Woods
@pwoods330 New Record Holder @cmont__1 tied @LukaG_55
for the @FactorySportsDETwitter for iPad

[Columbuseer]

West Liberty playing in Las Vegas tourney!
Lubbock Christian sat dec 17
Missouri S and T sun Dec 18

Great reward for their hard work!