West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Grads ... can't do anything about those transfers. Underclassmen in same conference with no penalty ... crock of shiz.

Who's next .. David Dennis to Fairmont or Wheeling?

Or Marco Colombus to Notre Dame?? Some programs just don't restrict their transferring players. Sure, you run the risk of them lighting you up, but that's a risk some coaches are willing to take to give players the freedom to persue what ever type of education they want.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Grads ... can't do anything about those transfers. Underclassmen in same conference with no penalty ... crock of shiz.

Who's next .. David Dennis to Fairmont or Wheeling?

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

That's total B.S. if they are eligible right away after transferring within the same damn conference.

How can WJ grant them a release to do so?

Buuuutttt...Within region, I'm guessing you're OK with that?? Hahahaha!!

Could be graduate transfers as Aug points out or it could just be that WJ doesn't restrict its transferring players. Don't officially know how many we are talking about yet, but if it's more than one, it is a bit slimmie on Fairmonts part...even though it's legal.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Tham was a sophomore this past season. Hilson was a junior.

Tham would be a major loss for WJ. There's no way Sancomb could sign off on that transfer -- to his (co) freaking rival.

Hilson could fall in to that grad transfer arena ... more and more are graduating quickly.

[MrAugustana]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

That's total B.S. if they are eligible right away after transferring within the same damn conference.

How can WJ grant them a release to do so?

Are they seniors? If so, it's possible they're graduate transfers. That's what happened this year at Augie. We had an inter-conference transfer (MSU-Mankato to Augustana), but because he was a grad transfer, he was eligible right away.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

That's total B.S. if they are eligible right away after transferring within the same damn conference.

How can WJ grant them a release to do so?

[Bware2]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

On the basketball front,
Ben Howlett assistant reportedly from Ashland..
Possible transfer from Delaware State coming to visit WL this week..

Not sure who the Wheeling players are that left for Fairmont withWukasch, someone said Hilson and Tham

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Good ideas and food for thought. Draw a 25 mile radius around the school and target those schools and towns first. Might be a good senior project for advertising and marketing majors. Given the quality of play of the top 20 D2 schools, I also wonder if some DII Athletic departments have also gotten frustrated and given up. However, it is easy for me to say that, since I have not walked a mile in their shoes (budget and staffing limitations). Challenge is can you make the game an "event" without spending much $?

I think that is a very big part of it. Also, weather we want to believe it or not, an AD position at MOST DII's is not exactly considered a "choice" gig or even one that a young up and comer would pick to pad his resume with. While I'm sure there are exceptions, what most DII's are going to get to pick from are long time coaches at the school looking to "move up" and pad their retirement wallets, coaches/AD's that are "coming home" at the end of their careers but aren't quite ready to retire or a young guy who has been weighed and measured and found lacking for a position in a D1 Athletic Department. Sadly, you probably aren't going to get a lot of innovative, outside the box marketing ideas from that group and probably not a lot that would be much interested in devoting a whole lot of good old fashion "shoe leather" to building the local fan base.

I agree with a poster that noted the NCAA might take issue with giving HS players free game tickets. I think a way around it would be through a "tiered seating" arrangement. "Presidents Box" seating for schools that have them, cost $20/game, "Executive Seating" (Chair back seats between the 40's) cost $10/game, "Club Seating" (Reserved bleachers) cost $5/game and General Admission/Standing Room tickets are free to all current students, alumni and residents of the "tri county area" below the age of 20.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Students are purely a bonus at this level. Build the community support. They spend the money, will come regularly and also donate.

[ctrabs74]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

When you're talking student attendance, and I know that's not the only part of the discussion, but attendance is down at the Division 1 level too. It's true. Look it up. Students would rather sit in their dorm or apartment and flip between 6 different games on Saturday than show up to their own.

And ESPN can point to their ratings for third-rate 'participation trophy' bowl games which may draw 10,000 - if they're lucky - as proof that fans will watch any FBS football, even if it's an aforementioned bowl game featuring a pair of 6- or 7-win teams. Yet, most of these athletic departments, regardless of level, would seemingly rake in that TV money than boost live attendance.

[ctrabs74]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I like that idea Boat of giving high school athletes free passes. If you got 200 high school students in free what they spent on the concession would probably be more revenue than what you would receive in the gate admissions for a few that might show up for the game if paid. Plus free publicity for the school. A drawback and would probably have to be addressed would be from the current students who pay an athletic fee in their tuition. If the students have to pay the athletic fee and the high school students get free I see big problems!

The only drawback is that such a plan to give high school students passes could get a school in trouble with the NCAA. In theory, it's a good idea to expand a fan base, but knowing the warped logic of the NCAA, this could be perceived as a recruiting tactic not permitted under NCAA rules.

[IUP24]

True, I've done the - you can get much closer to the action, the untrained observers can't tell the difference in quality, games are often closer and more exciting, the players are doing it for the love of the game, and so the sport is true amateur, more pure. nothing works. There is either a community connection with the team or there is not, and you can't make that connection over night.

Spot on. In football, with the exception of Shepard, Cal is the most decorated team in the region in the last 10 years. And look how bad their attendance was even when they were going on deep playoff runs annually.

The Indiana community adopted the school more than the California community has, but it's not as though Miller Stadium is near capacity every week either, so there's more to it than even that.

The fact is that people these days, at least the younger generation, want the big crowds and the atmosphere. You get more of that watching D1 football on your couch than you will being at a D2 game in person. Just the way it's viewed.


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[IUP24]

Honestly, when this topic inevitably pops up again on the PSAC board in 6 months, I'll be sure to hop back over here and invite you all to join the discussion.

Nothing that's been said here hasn't been suggested from PSAC posters. In fact, the whole "free ticket" idea has happened before at a couple schools. IUP does it once or twice for basketball games a year. That helps to a degree, but no school is going to give away free tickets to every game like that. Multiple schools in the PSAC, IUP included, have done something where you can have one paying adult bring in as many children under 12 as they want for free. That never worked at IUP. Maybe something will work at an MEC school, but none of those things have changed anything in the PSAC.

I was part of a student group at IUP that spent a lot of time, energy, and effort trying to boost student attendance. Some things we did worked, early on at least. Blast advertising on social media and things. That grabs people initially, but for football, especially when the weather gets colder you aren't ever going to succeed in bringing people in.

We held multiple focus groups where we tried to identify what the real issues were, and the common theme was that D2 wasn't D1. While you may have chosen your college after high school, you were raised as a fan of some D1 program since before you could walk, and it's tough to make that transition, especially at somewhere that doesn't have the atmosphere.

When you're talking student attendance, and I know that's not the only part of the discussion, but attendance is down at the Division 1 level too. It's true. Look it up. Students would rather sit in their dorm or apartment and flip between 6 different games on Saturday than show up to their own.


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[Sportsnut]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I like that idea Boat of giving high school athletes free passes. If you got 200 high school students in free what they spent on the concession would probably be more revenue than what you would receive in the gate admissions for a few that might show up for the game if paid. Plus free publicity for the school. A drawback and would probably have to be addressed would be from the current students who pay an athletic fee in their tuition. If the students have to pay the athletic fee and the high school students get free I see big problems!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I agree in general. A DII is never going to "win" the fan base battle with a name D1. But beyond that, it seems like there is a huge disconnect between what most DII's do to market themselves locally and what even local HS's do. Most DII's are near some sort of small population center with a couple of others in the area. A successful DII should be targeting those population centers with gusto...they should partner with every chamber of commerse, VFW and Moose Lodge to promote their programs and get the local population to the games...every HS player of ANY sport should have a FREE ticket to every home game...Once at the game, people should have ample opportunity to tailgate WITH the schools ACTIVE involvement and support.

Are DII's going to always struggle to put butts in seats? Yea, most of the time they will. Bust it seems like most DII athletic departments have given up and have decided there is just nothing they can do.

Good ideas and food for thought. Draw a 25 mile radius around the school and target those schools and towns first. Might be a good senior project for advertising and marketing majors. Given the quality of play of the top 20 D2 schools, I also wonder if some DII Athletic departments have also gotten frustrated and given up. However, it is easy for me to say that, since I have not walked a mile in their shoes (budget and staffing limitations). Challenge is can you make the game an "event" without spending much $?