West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's a dirty, dirty industry. But, it almost has to be. There's heavy, heavy pressure on the coaches and they get very short leashes. Big money at play. The days of getting 3-4 years to turn a program around are long gone. These athletic departments are all delusional ... and under immense pressure from the top-shelf boosters.

Not that Duquesne is some big program by any means but they will bring in 3 PGs in this class knowing full well they don't need them all. One (at least) will be gone after this upcoming season. They know that going in -- and don't really care.

Yet another reason I prefer the D2 game.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

That's pretty much how every D1 recruitment goes, ...

Yep...and kids fall for it hook, line and sinker! Used car salesmen are almost universally reviled for their willingness to say ANYTHING to close the deal but we LOVE and respect D1 coaches that do basically the same thing.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Not likely. The conversation between Duquesne and Carey probably went something like - "We think you are GREAT and would LOVE to have you come in and be our starting PG from day one. In fact we think you are so great that we are going to build our offense around you. You do things with the basketball that John Wall only dreams about AND you shoot BETTER than Steph Curry. Did we mention that we have put 24 players into the NBA and we really think YOU will be #25...ALL you got to do is sign with us and start figuring out what you are going to buy with the NBA paychecks that are SURE to be yours!"

Side conversation with Carrey's AAU coach - "Thanks for your help. Here's a little something for your efforts."

That's pretty much how every D1 recruitment goes, ...

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Welcome to d1 recruiting, sincere!

Duquesne just signed Lamar Norman another pg who was one of top 15 players in Michigan. This is in addition to Brandon wade who did unofficial visit to ky and who many thought should have been finalist for mr. basketball.

Wonder if they shared this info with sincere before he signed. Three great point guards in one incoming class! Lol

Not likely. The conversation between Duquesne and Carey probably went something like - "We think you are GREAT and would LOVE to have you come in and be our starting PG from day one. In fact we think you are so great that we are going to build our offense around you. You do things with the basketball that John Wall only dreams about AND you shoot BETTER than Steph Curry. Did we mention that we have put 24 players into the NBA and we really think YOU will be #25...ALL you got to do is sign with us and start figuring out what you are going to buy with the NBA paychecks that are SURE to be yours!"

Side conversation with Carrey's AAU coach - "Thanks for your help. Here's a little something for your efforts."

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Coach Ervin receives national honor.
Named member of 30 under 30 honor roll honoring 30 assistant coaches under the age of 30!

Congratulations coach!

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Welcome to d1 recruiting, sincere!

Duquesne just signed Lamar Norman another pg who was one of top 15 players in Michigan. This is in addition to Brandon wade who did unofficial visit to ky and who many thought should have been finalist for mr. basketball.

Wonder if they shared this info with sincere before he signed. Three great point guards in one incoming class! Lol

Perhaps about to learn the same hard lesson that Chuckie learned...The grass is not always greener AND don't listen to your AAU coach!!!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Interesting Duquesne just signed another high school PG this morning.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Welcome to d1 recruiting, sincere!

Duquesne just signed Lamar Norman another pg who was one of top 15 players in Michigan. This is in addition to Brandon wade who did unofficial visit to ky and who many thought should have been finalist for mr. basketball.

Wonder if they shared this info with sincere before he signed. Three great point guards in one incoming class! Lol

[Columbuseer]

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

If healthy, Sincere is a beast. He would have been a D2 monster.

[Sportsnut]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

So is this an upgrade or downgrade from Sincere Carry who we lost?

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Offers and commits are non-binding on both parties until the NLI is signed. Each year, quite a few verbal commits back out at the last minute in favor of another program and I'm sure many schools pull their offers in favor of someone they like better.

Once the NLI is signed and accepted, all other schools are suppose to stop all recruiting activity with the player. Unfortunately, schools have figured out any number of ways around that rule. In basketball, one of the primary ways is to work the players AAU coach to get him to let the player know that they would just LOVE to "talk" to him if he could just get out of that pesky little NLI.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's very common for a program to offer 20 players ... say 20 guards ... to fill 3 spots. Often times the first three to sign get the spots. That practice is very common with mid-tier and down programs.

You are correct. An offer is an offer. That's it. It can be pulled at any time -- including the morning of signing day. Verbals are nice and all and get us message board dorks excited, but they don't mean a thing. There's very little loyalty in recruiting -- on both sides. It's not like other schools quit recruiting players even after they've given a verbal. Often times that just intensifies it. Heck, look what you guys just went through with Sincere. He was freaking signed and still bailed.

Coaches also can't put all their eggs in one basket so they often times have to over-offer. Duke or Kentucky probably don't have to play all the games as they pick and choose but the rest ... pretty cut-throat world.

In the days before Twitter ... it was very difficult to track recruiting -- in particular D2 was extremely hard.


Coaches often play the car salesmen games ... here's your offer. If you don't sign it ... it may be gone by tomorrow. Often times they are actually telling the truth. I think this type of recruiting is often done more with the 'damaged goods' type of player. One school in the PSAC is famous for doing such. They don't even bring kids to campus. They'll go to those JUCO Showcases and offer 30 kids -- knowing 4-5 will sign immediately. It has worked as they've had some success but they also have to build a new team every April.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

A better article on the inside game of D1 recruiting and offers:
Key points:
- You can get an offer but the school will not allow you to accept the offer.
- Alabama offers 150 kids a year for maybe 25 scholarships.
- Offers keep you in the recruiting game with the player but really don't mean anything if the player is not allowed to commit.

- These bogus "offers" mostly consist of certain verbiage such as, "we are offering you a scholarship depending on three main goals being met: keeping your grades up, continuing to get better on the field, and staying out of trouble off the field."


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...w-it-all-works

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

What happened to them?

Good question about the mechanics of the scholarship "offer" process regardless of the individual involved. Maybe someone close to the general process on both sides can enlighten us. I have no knowledge of any individual case. There was discussion on the Ohio U blog about this specific player, as they had no more scholarships.

The following is speculation on my part.

1. An "offer" is verbal and is non-binding on both sides.
2. An "offer" may be conditional; i.e., you are #2 on our list at your position. If we don't sign #1, we are definitely interested in you. Or let's talk after your senior year.
3. A player may choose to wait to accept an offer or the school could still continue to issue other offers at the same position.
4. Players may get caught in a numbers game. For example, a school decides to take more players at other positions of greater need and defer signing a PG until the next year. So they have no scholarships.
5. I would not be surprised if some coaches on the hot seat would hesitate in signing someone who is not 1st team all district or all-state because of fear of the boosters. In fact, I think some marginal coaches are not the best judge of talent and rely too heavily on ratings, height, and awards.



Here are some basics I found about offers:
https://www.athleticscholarships.net...larships-offer