Iup basketball

[IUPbigINDIANS]

It's why D2 sports is more lopsided than MLB.

There are rich teams, poor teams ... and, the rest in between.

Wanna see who wins year after year ... follow the money.

The Clarion types may get a good year every 5-6 years but by and large have no chance year to year. It will be even worse now in the Portal Era.

Clarion, Lock Haven, etc., will just be feeder programs for the wealthy. Go there for 1-2 years, develop, raise your stock ... and get on the first freaking train out of town.

Cal football was a great example. Doormat forever until Angelo started pumping all sorts of money in to the program. And, poof, they took off like a bat out of h*ll.

Joe is blessed with a lot of corporate money being pumped in to the KCAC -- along with some big private money. Stars aren't cheap. You gotta spend big to win big.

Joe's a great coach. No doubt. But how good would he do at Clarion?

[IUPHawks24]

There's a 10 scholarship limit for basketball. For the PASSHE schools, those scholarships are real dollars raised by the school sitting in an account to pay themselves. So if IUP has 8 full scholarship dollars, multiply the full cost of attendance (tuition, fees, housing, meals, books) by 8. I wonder if the per-credit tuition model had athletes taking fewer classes to stretch out the money. Because the money is real and limited, its treated as "second dollar" money after all the government grants and academic scholarships.

For the privates, they award scholarships by just discounting the tuition (like paying below sticker for your car). Discounts are usually targeted by population so there are net tuition revenue goals for each group of students (men's basketball might need to bring in a certain amount of net tuition revenue to justify expenses or the discounts). Since the discount margin is factored into the university budget, they can spend more without it really affecting program operations. For PASSHE, a coach might need to decide between new equipment or an extra $1,000 for a player or making an away game an overnight. For the privates, the scholarships never affect how the program runs.

[Fightingscot82]

There's a 10 scholarship limit for basketball. For the PASSHE schools, those scholarships are real dollars raised by the school sitting in an account to pay themselves. So if IUP has 8 full scholarship dollars, multiply the full cost of attendance (tuition, fees, housing, meals, books) by 8. I wonder if the per-credit tuition model had athletes taking fewer classes to stretch out the money. Because the money is real and limited, its treated as "second dollar" money after all the government grants and academic scholarships.

For the privates, they award scholarships by just discounting the tuition (like paying below sticker for your car). Discounts are usually targeted by population so there are net tuition revenue goals for each group of students (men's basketball might need to bring in a certain amount of net tuition revenue to justify expenses or the discounts). Since the discount margin is factored into the university budget, they can spend more without it really affecting program operations. For PASSHE, a coach might need to decide between new equipment or an extra $1,000 for a player or making an away game an overnight. For the privates, the scholarships never affect how the program runs.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Regarding Waldo, this is a really strange time. Like I said, I'm just guessing they offered him a half. Now, that can increase each year he's here.

High school recruits were really up against it last year and this year. With so many college players taking advantage of the extra year, spots were (are) really hard to come by. So, even a 'half' may have been a really strong offer. Considering IUP is a D2 powerhouse, that just makes it all the sweeter.

I know they are currently 'interested' in one other player from the WPIAL -- although, they haven't made an official offer yet.

Long-term, perhaps that is the correct move. But, I really feel they need to find the right two additions for 22-23 via the portal.

Out of Dillard, Polce and Radford, I'd say Dillard would be the most ready to start full-time (he is a natural point guard). Polce obviously isn't going to start over David or Shawndale but will be a fantastic 6th man next year. Radford has a lot of clean up prior to next season, but he did make some nice strides down the stretch.

[IUPHawks24]

In D2, there aren't as many 'full rides' (via scholarship money) as many think.

Using IUP as an example, in a typical year they may have (8) scholarship equivalencies Joe usually keeps 12 or 13 on the roster.

For many years there, I 'think' he was loading up his first (7) players or so -- probably most with full rides. However, his teams never had much depth beyond those guys. Seems in the recent years he's added more depth -- likely by taking more 'half-ride' guys than 'full-ride' guys (at least as you get in to players 6 and further down the bench).

There are so many loopholes to get players extra money ... who knows what really goes on. Dante came here for free for four years so he didn't hit the salary cap. Only winning two tournament games in his four years (with basically an extra scholarship player) ... well, that's a different discussion.

If you luck out and get a star player who can qualify for academic money ... all the better. That doesn't count against the 10 equivalency maximum. Or, as some East football schools tend to do, money can be given in different methods.

As for the 'cash flow' ... I think Joe has a very steady flow of strong donors. Just a guess but the program will find a way to max out this coming season.


This is all just a guess, but looking at the 'current' roster for next year, I'd guess:

David Morris - Full Ride
Ethan Porterfield - Full Ride
Tomiwa Sulaiman - Full Ride
Shawndale Jones - Full Ride

Dallis Dillard, Bryce Radford and Kyle Polce - I suspect elevated to at least 3/4 ride for sophomore seasons -- both likely were 1/4 ride this past season.

Ousmane Diop and KJ Rhodes - Guessing a 1/2 ride each -- both likely were 1/4 ride this past season.

Damir Brooks possibly at 1/2 ride. Incoming freshman Dolan Waldo probably at 1/2 ride to start.


That would add up to 8.25 equivalencies. Armoni and Demo obviously fell off the books. The deep bench are walk-ons and have no cap hit.


Now, there has been rumors one of IUP's stars is on academic money. So, that would lower the cap to 7.25 equivalencies -- thus creating some available coin. And, if Joe convinces his inner circle to go All-In for 22-23, they could easily raise another 2.5 rides to max out.

My hunch all along is they will add two transfers here in the coming weeks -- a PG and a big SF/SG.

[ironmaniup]

It had to be a tough choice for Armoni. With him, that could have been a near historic team for IUP next year. That's a lot to walk away from.

I imagine it was tough. But really this year he accomplished as much as he could hope for here. With Shawndale back, they might be better as a team, but its not a guarantee. and what more could they accomplish next year? Win the last two games, go undefeated ? Maybe, but that still requires some luck. If he ends up playing in the SEC, or some similar program, even if he's average there, it will be a big deal for him. He'll never wonder how he could have done in a big time program.

[Fightingscot82]

Don't forget, if player A qualifies for government grants, that athletic aid is coming in after. No need to have Joe's hard-earned money pay for what the government will pay for! Often in D2 after all the different forms of grants and true scholarships are counted, a student may be going for free and that's sometimes called a "full ride".

[IUPbigINDIANS]

When you say cash flow- you're referring to scholarship money right? I know IUP has more than most, but aren't all these good players on full scholarships? How else would the schools keep them?

In D2, there aren't as many 'full rides' (via scholarship money) as many think.

Using IUP as an example, in a typical year they may have (8) scholarship equivalencies Joe usually keeps 12 or 13 on the roster.

For many years there, I 'think' he was loading up his first (7) players or so -- probably most with full rides. However, his teams never had much depth beyond those guys. Seems in the recent years he's added more depth -- likely by taking more 'half-ride' guys than 'full-ride' guys (at least as you get in to players 6 and further down the bench).

There are so many loopholes to get players extra money ... who knows what really goes on. Dante came here for free for four years so he didn't hit the salary cap. Only winning two tournament games in his four years (with basically an extra scholarship player) ... well, that's a different discussion.

If you luck out and get a star player who can qualify for academic money ... all the better. That doesn't count against the 10 equivalency maximum. Or, as some East football schools tend to do, money can be given in different methods.

As for the 'cash flow' ... I think Joe has a very steady flow of strong donors. Just a guess but the program will find a way to max out this coming season.


This is all just a guess, but looking at the 'current' roster for next year, I'd guess:

David Morris - Full Ride
Ethan Porterfield - Full Ride
Tomiwa Sulaiman - Full Ride
Shawndale Jones - Full Ride

Dallis Dillard, Bryce Radford and Kyle Polce - I suspect elevated to at least 3/4 ride for sophomore seasons -- both likely were 1/4 ride this past season.

Ousmane Diop and KJ Rhodes - Guessing a 1/2 ride each -- both likely were 1/4 ride this past season.

Damir Brooks possibly at 1/2 ride. Incoming freshman Dolan Waldo probably at 1/2 ride to start.


That would add up to 8.25 equivalencies. Armoni and Demo obviously fell off the books. The deep bench are walk-ons and have no cap hit.


Now, there has been rumors one of IUP's stars is on academic money. So, that would lower the cap to 7.25 equivalencies -- thus creating some available coin. And, if Joe convinces his inner circle to go All-In for 22-23, they could easily raise another 2.5 rides to max out.

My hunch all along is they will add two transfers here in the coming weeks -- a PG and a big SF/SG.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I think this year is a bit of an anomaly, since players have that 5th year of eligibility, and most are graduating. Armoni would have been 4 years and out at IUP, but he has that fifth year. Why not see what its like in the upper divisions ? there are a couple more years with that extra fifth year, and then it goes away, so it won't last long. Also, it won't take too long for players to get embarrassed by not getting any offers. The portal will be very different in a couple years.

It had to be a tough choice for Armoni. With him, that could have been a near historic team for IUP next year. That's a lot to walk away from.

[ironmaniup]

I think this year is a bit of an anomaly, since players have that 5th year of eligibility, and most are graduating. Armoni would have been 4 years and out at IUP, but he has that fifth year. Why not see what its like in the upper divisions ? there are a couple more years with that extra fifth year, and then it goes away, so it won't last long. Also, it won't take too long for players to get embarrassed by not getting any offers. The portal will be very different in a couple years.

[IUPHawks24]

Luckily for IUP, Joe is a very patient shopper -- and, an excellent recruiter.

They will likely continue to lose some here and there but he will replace them. Thankfully, he has the cash flow to do so.

I do have extreme fears about Ethan and Tomiwa beyond next year. Also, David Morris and Shawndale will be gone after next season. So, this better be an 'all-in' year. He needs to add a Day 1 ready piece to the puzzle.

When you say cash flow- you're referring to scholarship money right? I know IUP has more than most, but aren't all these good players on full scholarships? How else would the schools keep them?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Luckily for IUP, Joe is a very patient shopper -- and, an excellent recruiter.

They will likely continue to lose some here and there but he will replace them. Thankfully, he has the cash flow to do so.

I do have extreme fears about Ethan and Tomiwa beyond next year. Also, David Morris and Shawndale will be gone after next season. So, this better be an 'all-in' year. He needs to add a Day 1 ready piece to the puzzle.

[IUP24]

The fact Pitt people are hoping they poach D2 players ... says all you need to know about that dumpster fire program.

Pitt literally just let a D2 kid in their own back yard leave Pennsylvania -- one they went after very hard. Granted, Loyola Chicago is currently a far superior program than Pitt.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

College basketball is strange. I just hate what this has turned into. Armoni is great D2 point guard, I'm not sure he's "good" playing in the SEC. Aside from the NCAA Tournament this year, I haven't otherwise watched a D1 game in 2 years. It's so transient. And the steady product that once was D2 hoops is just JUCO basketball now. A feeder system, if you will. It's unfortunate. Joe's built a tremendous culture to withstand this stuff for a long time to this point. It was going to take one domino to fall for Joe to ultimately change everyone always staying at IUP, and this is that first domino. I guess it's different here because Foster has been in the program for 5 years. It's not like he's bolted at the first opportunity. But this changes the future of Joe's "Hawk Family," "Cut Stone," and "g2G" culture.

You mention Tomiwa and Ethan. Had Foster not left, I wouldn't have felt worried. Now I see no scenario where they finish at IUP. Jabronis on the Pitt message boards are saying that they need to find a way to get Porterfield to leave IUP to come to Pitt. Never in my life did I think that you would hear D1 fans saying, "Hey, let's do some tampering and get a kid at IUP to transfer." But that's what it is now. This stuff is just absurd at this point.

The fact Pitt people are hoping they poach D2 players ... says all you need to know about that dumpster fire program.

Pitt literally just let a D2 kid in their own back yard leave Pennsylvania -- one they went after very hard. Granted, Loyola Chicago is currently a far superior program than Pitt.

[IUP24]

Based on the first 48 hours in the portal ... would probably say the hope of Armoni returning is toast

He's been contacted by 25+ D1 programs -- highlighted by Missouri, Alabama and South Carolina.

St. Bonaventure and several other mid-majors are also in the picture.

College basketball is strange. I just hate what this has turned into. Armoni is great D2 point guard, I'm not sure he's "good" playing in the SEC. Aside from the NCAA Tournament this year, I haven't otherwise watched a D1 game in 2 years. It's so transient. And the steady product that once was D2 hoops is just JUCO basketball now. A feeder system, if you will. It's unfortunate. Joe's built a tremendous culture to withstand this stuff for a long time to this point. It was going to take one domino to fall for Joe to ultimately change everyone always staying at IUP, and this is that first domino. I guess it's different here because Foster has been in the program for 5 years. It's not like he's bolted at the first opportunity. But this changes the future of Joe's "Hawk Family," "Cut Stone," and "g2G" culture.

You mention Tomiwa and Ethan. Had Foster not left, I wouldn't have felt worried. Now I see no scenario where they finish at IUP. Jabronis on the Pitt message boards are saying that they need to find a way to get Porterfield to leave IUP to come to Pitt. Never in my life did I think that you would hear D1 fans saying, "Hey, let's do some tampering and get a kid at IUP to transfer." But that's what it is now. This stuff is just absurd at this point.