PSAC WEST

[IUPHawks24]

The 'third time' games can be entertaining but usually they are hard to watch. There's no surprises. When a team calls a play and the other team instantly calls the counter, it can lead to some boring basketball. Playing each other that close also leads to chippy play, scuffles, etc.

And, too often, the third game is shortly after the second game. UPJ and SRU played yesterday and will play tomorrow. IUP and Cal will likely play again days later.

The way the calendar falls, home court in the PSAC Finals weekend is overblown at most sites. The kids are gone (Spring Break).

I went to the Final Four weekend at Ship several years ago and it was basically townies vs visiting townies in the stands. No students. Very tame. IUP probably had a louder crowd than Ship in the finals.

What's really fun is the fourth game. IUP's had to play Mercyhurst four times and played Cal four times last year.


All of that said, I think Mercyhurst is the betting favorite. Joe's coaching to get everybody their varsity letter. Gary may have the best team right now.

Joe will tighten up the rotations for the playoffs. I think he was trying to build some depth the last month, but it didn't really work.

There's no way a 27-1 team isn't the favorite. Mercyhurst is good, but they aren't IUP good.

[bballfan03]

The 'third time' games can be entertaining but usually they are hard to watch. There's no surprises. When a team calls a play and the other team instantly calls the counter, it can lead to some boring basketball. Playing each other that close also leads to chippy play, scuffles, etc.

And, too often, the third game is shortly after the second game. UPJ and SRU played yesterday and will play tomorrow. IUP and Cal will likely play again days later.

The way the calendar falls, home court in the PSAC Finals weekend is overblown at most sites. The kids are gone (Spring Break).

I went to the Final Four weekend at Ship several years ago and it was basically townies vs visiting townies in the stands. No students. Very tame. IUP probably had a louder crowd than Ship in the finals.

What's really fun is the fourth game. IUP's had to play Mercyhurst four times and played Cal four times last year.


All of that said, I think Mercyhurst is the betting favorite. Joe's coaching to get everybody their varsity letter. Gary may have the best team right now.

Fourth round games are killer. Gannon beat Rock 3x the one season (easily in 2 of them)...lost to them first round of Atlantic gamea.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Danny's a good coach but he's also a whiny little bi&tch. That show he put on yesterday would get him tossed at the KCAC (he was T'd up last visit).

Keep that in mind.

[Ship69]

I've been talking about this with some guys at work, about sports in general... we all think for just about every sport (especially pros), but even in some college aspects... Use the divisions solely for travel purposes (you play the teams closer to you 2x, everyone else once). Then for playoffs... it's the top X teams, regardless of division. No division winners, conference champions, etc. 1 - X strictly by record. ALSO, if a team is below .500, they shouldn't make the playoffs. So if it's normally 12 teams and the 12th team is under .500... you either make it work somehow with 11 or scrap the 11th team and just do 10. I know this will never happen, but would love to see it!

Well, this is a problem in all college sports. If you don't want divisions, pods etc, then have smaller conferences where you can have true round robin schedules. If you're not going to have a divisional or conference champion or conference tourney, then just have playoffs and don't bother with a regular season. At present, I don't think a playoff structure that has the conference down to eight of its 18 teams after one playoff game is that cumbersome.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I've been talking about this with some guys at work, about sports in general... we all think for just about every sport (especially pros), but even in some college aspects... Use the divisions solely for travel purposes (you play the teams closer to you 2x, everyone else once). Then for playoffs... it's the top X teams, regardless of division. No division winners, conference champions, etc. 1 - X strictly by record. ALSO, if a team is below .500, they shouldn't make the playoffs. So if it's normally 12 teams and the 12th team is under .500... you either make it work somehow with 11 or scrap the 11th team and just do 10. I know this will never happen, but would love to see it!

In this case, IUP and Mercyhurst would be the clear 1 and 2 seeds in the tournament in an open structure.

But, such is life.

[bballfan03]

The 'third time' games can be entertaining but usually they are hard to watch. There's no surprises. When a team calls a play and the other team instantly calls the counter, it can lead to some boring basketball. Playing each other that close also leads to chippy play, scuffles, etc.

And, too often, the third game is shortly after the second game. UPJ and SRU played yesterday and will play tomorrow. IUP and Cal will likely play again days later.

The way the calendar falls, home court in the PSAC Finals weekend is overblown at most sites. The kids are gone (Spring Break).

I went to the Final Four weekend at Ship several years ago and it was basically townies vs visiting townies in the stands. No students. Very tame. IUP probably had a louder crowd than Ship in the finals.

What's really fun is the fourth game. IUP's had to play Mercyhurst four times and played Cal four times last year.


All of that said, I think Mercyhurst is the betting favorite. Joe's coaching to get everybody their varsity letter. Gary may have the best team right now.

I've been talking about this with some guys at work, about sports in general... we all think for just about every sport (especially pros), but even in some college aspects... Use the divisions solely for travel purposes (you play the teams closer to you 2x, everyone else once). Then for playoffs... it's the top X teams, regardless of division. No division winners, conference champions, etc. 1 - X strictly by record. ALSO, if a team is below .500, they shouldn't make the playoffs. So if it's normally 12 teams and the 12th team is under .500... you either make it work somehow with 11 or scrap the 11th team and just do 10. I know this will never happen, but would love to see it!

[bballfan03]

Completely different administration now.

No, Lisa was the one that made the comments.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. I can't help but think that it's time for the PSAC to ditch the divisions bit and follow the lead of, well, pretty much every Power Five basketball conference and get rid of divisions (each Big 12 team plays home-and-home, though that ends next season with the addition of four schools; ACC, SEC, B1G play 3-4 set opponents home-and-home then everyone else once; PAC-12 teams play nine home-and-home sets with single games against the remaining two schools).

When the PSAC originally expanded to 18 teams, there was talk for going to a three-division format with home-and-home divisional games (10) and single games against the other two divisions (6 games x 2 divisions = 12) to keep the 22 game format in place. Unfortunately, we're stuck with the current scheme for god knows how long, but it's long overdue for an overhaul, even if the coaches have to buy into it kicking and screaming.

You can keep the three-division scheme, but as "pods" rather than fixed divisions:

West: Cal, Edinboro, Gannon, Mercyhurst, Seton Hill, Slippery Rock
Central-ish: Clarion, IUP, Lock Haven, Mansfield, Shepherd, UPJ
East: Bloomsburg, East Stroudsburg, Kutztown, Millersville, Shippensburg, West Chester

Use the same 10-6-6 format as proposed in the three-division format and put everyone in a single division, take the 12 best teams overall and seed the damn thing. This way, the 7th best team in the West wouldn't be left out of the playoffs in favor of a dreadful 6th seed from the East. That way, an East team whose PSAC record would place them third in the West wouldn't host while a deserving top seed from the West misses out on hosting rights for the semis and finals (not that it bothered IUP much when they'd win the PSAC in an East gym in the past, but still...)

And, yes, I'm sick of seeing the "third-time" showdowns in the early rounds. Seems way too bland and predictable at times.

The 'third time' games can be entertaining but usually they are hard to watch. There's no surprises. When a team calls a play and the other team instantly calls the counter, it can lead to some boring basketball. Playing each other that close also leads to chippy play, scuffles, etc.

And, too often, the third game is shortly after the second game. UPJ and SRU played yesterday and will play tomorrow. IUP and Cal will likely play again days later.

The way the calendar falls, home court in the PSAC Finals weekend is overblown at most sites. The kids are gone (Spring Break).

I went to the Final Four weekend at Ship several years ago and it was basically townies vs visiting townies in the stands. No students. Very tame. IUP probably had a louder crowd than Ship in the finals.

What's really fun is the fourth game. IUP's had to play Mercyhurst four times and played Cal four times last year.


All of that said, I think Mercyhurst is the betting favorite. Joe's coaching to get everybody their varsity letter. Gary may have the best team right now.

[WarriorVoice]

You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. I can't help but think that it's time for the PSAC to ditch the divisions bit and follow the lead of, well, pretty much every Power Five basketball conference and get rid of divisions (each Big 12 team plays home-and-home, though that ends next season with the addition of four schools; ACC, SEC, B1G play 3-4 set opponents home-and-home then everyone else once; PAC-12 teams play nine home-and-home sets with single games against the remaining two schools).

When the PSAC originally expanded to 18 teams, there was talk for going to a three-division format with home-and-home divisional games (10) and single games against the other two divisions (6 games x 2 divisions = 12) to keep the 22 game format in place. Unfortunately, we're stuck with the current scheme for god knows how long, but it's long overdue for an overhaul, even if the coaches have to buy into it kicking and screaming.

You can keep the three-division scheme, but as "pods" rather than fixed divisions:

West: Cal, Edinboro, Gannon, Mercyhurst, Seton Hill, Slippery Rock
Central-ish: Clarion, IUP, Lock Haven, Mansfield, Shepherd, UPJ
East: Bloomsburg, East Stroudsburg, Kutztown, Millersville, Shippensburg, West Chester

Use the same 10-6-6 format as proposed in the three-division format and put everyone in a single division, take the 12 best teams overall and seed the damn thing. This way, the 7th best team in the West wouldn't be left out of the playoffs in favor of a dreadful 6th seed from the East. That way, an East team whose PSAC record would place them third in the West wouldn't host while a deserving top seed from the West misses out on hosting rights for the semis and finals (not that it bothered IUP much when they'd win the PSAC in an East gym in the past, but still...)

And, yes, I'm sick of seeing the "third-time" showdowns in the early rounds. Seems way too bland and predictable at times.

I think the conference will take a "wait and see" approach to changing the playoffs. There's no guarantee that all 18 schools will be in existence in coming years.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Why is there a tournament? At most there should only be 4 teams left playing...the top two teams in each division.

Then the top team overall with the best record should be hosting the whole thing.

It should be IUP vs Walk On U in Game One
It should be Shippensburg vs The Lake Show in Game Two.

At IUP...

As it turns out, IUP got the tougher draw than Mercyhurst. Cal is red hot and UPJ has fallen off a cliff


Note: I'm assuming UPJ and Cal will both win at home Monday. I'd much rather play UPJ than Cal.

[Ship69]

You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. I can't help but think that it's time for the PSAC to ditch the divisions bit and follow the lead of, well, pretty much every Power Five basketball conference and get rid of divisions (each Big 12 team plays home-and-home, though that ends next season with the addition of four schools; ACC, SEC, B1G play 3-4 set opponents home-and-home then everyone else once; PAC-12 teams play nine home-and-home sets with single games against the remaining two schools).

When the PSAC originally expanded to 18 teams, there was talk for going to a three-division format with home-and-home divisional games (10) and single games against the other two divisions (6 games x 2 divisions = 12) to keep the 22 game format in place. Unfortunately, we're stuck with the current scheme for god knows how long, but it's long overdue for an overhaul, even if the coaches have to buy into it kicking and screaming.

You can keep the three-division scheme, but as "pods" rather than fixed divisions:

West: Cal, Edinboro, Gannon, Mercyhurst, Seton Hill, Slippery Rock
Central-ish: Clarion, IUP, Lock Haven, Mansfield, Shepherd, UPJ
East: Bloomsburg, East Stroudsburg, Kutztown, Millersville, Shippensburg, West Chester

Use the same 10-6-6 format as proposed in the three-division format and put everyone in a single division, take the 12 best teams overall and seed the damn thing. This way, the 7th best team in the West wouldn't be left out of the playoffs in favor of a dreadful 6th seed from the East. That way, an East team whose PSAC record would place them third in the West wouldn't host while a deserving top seed from the West misses out on hosting rights for the semis and finals (not that it bothered IUP much when they'd win the PSAC in an East gym in the past, but still...)

And, yes, I'm sick of seeing the "third-time" showdowns in the early rounds. Seems way too bland and predictable at times.

Well, no way would Ship go along with a "pod" where IUP draws Clarion, Lock Haven, Mansfield and Shepherd while the Raiders get East Stroud, Kutztown, Millersville, and West Chester. Just sayin'.

[IUPNation]

Why is there a tournament? At most there should only be 4 teams left playing...the top two teams in each division.

Then the top team overall with the best record should be hosting the whole thing.

It should be IUP vs Walk On U in Game One
It should be Shippensburg vs The Lake Show in Game Two.

At IUP...

[IUPalum]

I'd be shocked if Gannon hired Reynolds since Gannon administration have publicly blasted him in his years at Rock.

I agree, that ***** AD wouldn’t mesh with KR’s demeanor.

[ctrabs74]

I've always thought scrapping the East/West thing in the PSAC Tournament would be really cool -- i.e. the PSAC gets seeded for the tournament regardless of East/West association. We've seen numerous years where one side is far superior to the other (both ways). But, obviously with that comes the travel headache as our teams are so spaced out geographically.

The other pro (my opinion) is you avoid some 'Round 3' games. For instance, I'd find it much more interesting as a fan to watch IUP play Millersville next Wednesday night instead of playing Seton Hill for the third time.

I guess these are just some of the headaches with having 670 teams in the PSAC. LOL.

I don't dislike the current format ... just talking out loud.

I've often heard people question why the final -- since we love this East / West format -- isn't actually East vs. West. So many years we see a West vs West or East vs East final. But, in theory, that puts the two hottest teams up against each other. I remember 6-7 years ago when Ship beat IUP in OT at the KCAC on Final Four Saturday. Everybody in the league knew that was the actual final -- it just got played a day early.

You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. I can't help but think that it's time for the PSAC to ditch the divisions bit and follow the lead of, well, pretty much every Power Five basketball conference and get rid of divisions (each Big 12 team plays home-and-home, though that ends next season with the addition of four schools; ACC, SEC, B1G play 3-4 set opponents home-and-home then everyone else once; PAC-12 teams play nine home-and-home sets with single games against the remaining two schools).

When the PSAC originally expanded to 18 teams, there was talk for going to a three-division format with home-and-home divisional games (10) and single games against the other two divisions (6 games x 2 divisions = 12) to keep the 22 game format in place. Unfortunately, we're stuck with the current scheme for god knows how long, but it's long overdue for an overhaul, even if the coaches have to buy into it kicking and screaming.

You can keep the three-division scheme, but as "pods" rather than fixed divisions:

West: Cal, Edinboro, Gannon, Mercyhurst, Seton Hill, Slippery Rock
Central-ish: Clarion, IUP, Lock Haven, Mansfield, Shepherd, UPJ
East: Bloomsburg, East Stroudsburg, Kutztown, Millersville, Shippensburg, West Chester

Use the same 10-6-6 format as proposed in the three-division format and put everyone in a single division, take the 12 best teams overall and seed the damn thing. This way, the 7th best team in the West wouldn't be left out of the playoffs in favor of a dreadful 6th seed from the East. That way, an East team whose PSAC record would place them third in the West wouldn't host while a deserving top seed from the West misses out on hosting rights for the semis and finals (not that it bothered IUP much when they'd win the PSAC in an East gym in the past, but still...)

And, yes, I'm sick of seeing the "third-time" showdowns in the early rounds. Seems way too bland and predictable at times.

[ctrabs74]

The only reason the MEC's neutral site format works is that they've always chosen a "neutral" site within reach of multiple schools. Wheeling is in the backyard of WU & WLU. Charleston (former home of the MEC tourney) has UC and WVSU right there. That's the only thing that saves it from being an empty arena. If it were played in, say, Morgantown with no actual MEC school in reach, it would be pretty empty most of the weekend.

Fairmont State is about a 25 minute drive up 79 to Hillbilly High in Morgantown.

The problem for the PSAC is that the state is so dang big that anywhere other than Hershey would end up being unfair to the other corners of the state. If it were held in, say, Pittsburgh, teams like IUP, Rock, etc. would have stronger showings. If it were played in Philly, same for WCU et. al. State is too big for a middle-ground neutral site event I would guess. MEC pulls it off because no one is coming more than 3 hours anywhere you put it. And as you say, CIAA pulls it off because it's been a significant cultural event for generations, so it draws for reasons both relating to and unrelated to basketball.

And then you have Hershey which is about an hour away from Kutztown and Shippensburg, and about 40 minutes away from Millersville, so you're going to get a lot of the same gripes about Hershey than you would for Philly or Pittsburgh. And considering the B1G regular season ends on the same weekend as the PSAC final four, there's no way that State Penn could (or would let) Bryce Jordan Arena host the PSAC (Rec Hall, maybe, if it still exists).