OT: D1

[Fightingscot82]

Any tournament that isn’t THE tournament is a waste of time in this world of college basketball.

It depends. When I was working at Robert Morris they had some decent justification. Foremost its the only way to keep playing competitive basketball, so its great to extend the season before guys start thinking transfer. Secondly, its more competitive basketball for a young and developing team. Third, its more opportunity for a coach or a school to improve their standing. See: Robert Morris vs. Kentucky in the NIT in 2013.

There is absolutely no financial incentive. For the NCAA tournament, all team expenses are paid for by the NCAA. For the others, each game is hosted by one of the two teams and they bear the cost. NCAA money is divided by "shares" that flow through the conferences. Each conference gets a share for each team that makes the tournament then those shares are amplified the further their team(s) make it in the tournament. Then the conferences divide up the money amongst their member schools. The system is built to reward the major conferences that can get multiple teams in the tournament, especially multiple teams past the second round.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

It depends. When I was working at Robert Morris they had some decent justification. Foremost its the only way to keep playing competitive basketball, so its great to extend the season before guys start thinking transfer. Secondly, its more competitive basketball for a young and developing team. Third, its more opportunity for a coach or a school to improve their standing. See: Robert Morris vs. Kentucky in the NIT in 2013.

There is absolutely no financial incentive. For the NCAA tournament, all team expenses are paid for by the NCAA. For the others, each game is hosted by one of the two teams and they bear the cost. NCAA money is divided by "shares" that flow through the conferences. Each conference gets a share for each team that makes the tournament then those shares are amplified the further their team(s) make it in the tournament. Then the conferences divide up the money amongst their member schools. The system is built to reward the major conferences that can get multiple teams in the tournament, especially multiple teams past the second round.

I'd agree there are different perspectives between a P5 school and a Robert Morris type in electing or declining an invitation to the NIT.

For Pitt, there is no doubt some spite involved in not playing in the NIT. But (que my yearly saying) when one season ends another begins. The faster you can get in to building the next team the better. It's not a matter of 'if' you lose players to the Portal now. It's just how many are you going to lose. Coaches also clearly know the dead weight on their rosters and they want to get those players out the door as soon as possible.

What's funny is the Yinzer radio this morning spent about 98% of its devoted hoops talk on Pitt's snub and about 2% on Duquesne making the field.

College basketball still has a 'committee' involved, and, well, we know what can happen.

[Fightingscot82]

I'd agree there are different perspectives between a P5 school and a Robert Morris type in electing or declining an invitation to the NIT.

For Pitt, there is no doubt some spite involved in not playing in the NIT. But (que my yearly saying) when one season ends another begins. The faster you can get in to building the next team the better. It's not a matter of 'if' you lose players to the Portal now. It's just how many are you going to lose. Coaches also clearly know the dead weight on their rosters and they want to get those players out the door as soon as possible.

What's funny is the Yinzer radio this morning spent about 98% of its devoted hoops talk on Pitt's snub and about 2% on Duquesne making the field.

College basketball still has a 'committee' involved, and, well, we know what can happen.

That's a shame because a) I'm not sold that Pitt was deserving, and b) Duquesne getting in is so much of a better story. Multiple upsets in the conference tournament. First time since 1977. Dambrot's dad played at Duquesne in the 50s. Jackasses.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

That's a shame because a) I'm not sold that Pitt was deserving, and b) Duquesne getting in is so much of a better story. Multiple upsets in the conference tournament. First time since 1977. Dambrot's dad played at Duquesne in the 50s. Jackasses.

It is a great story. If they beat BYU, you'll see the bandwagons all come out.

Madden's show should be much different today. He'll bash and make fun of Pitt for an hour, but he should spend a lot of time on Duquesne (his alma mater).


Changing directions here, I'm just not a huge fan of the automatic bid. I get it's great drama, etc. It just burns me to see a team that gets hot for a week make the tournament and a team that played well for 4 months get sent home. That's just a general opinion (not geared toward Pitt or Duquesne).

[Scrub]

Changing directions here, I'm just not a huge fan of the automatic bid. I get it's great drama, etc. It just burns me to see a team that gets hot for a week make the tournament and a team that played well for 4 months get sent home. That's just a general opinion (not geared toward Pitt or Duquesne).

The devil's advocate position is this: in sports, we like to see things decided on the playing field (and on the scoreboard), not on paper. There is no doubt left once the buzzer sounds--the scoreboard says what the scoreboard says. No gray area. The conference tournaments allow us to decide things on the scoreboard, not with greater responsibility given to committees in board rooms with spreadsheets. [shrug]

[Chuck Norris]

I'd agree there are different perspectives between a P5 school and a Robert Morris type in electing or declining an invitation to the NIT.

For Pitt, there is no doubt some spite involved in not playing in the NIT. But (que my yearly saying) when one season ends another begins. The faster you can get in to building the next team the better. It's not a matter of 'if' you lose players to the Portal now. It's just how many are you going to lose. Coaches also clearly know the dead weight on their rosters and they want to get those players out the door as soon as possible.

What's funny is the Yinzer radio this morning spent about 98% of its devoted hoops talk on Pitt's snub and about 2% on Duquesne making the field.

College basketball still has a 'committee' involved, and, well, we know what can happen.

Pitt may have wound up as one of the first four out but I can’t get on board with the idea they were snubbed. Halfway through the season they weren’t even in the conversation. Then they got hot and had the massive game at Wake Forest that they no showed. They had a chance to somewhat make up for that at Clemson and fell short. They were out of the conversation again. They rallied again but the hole was too big. They had to, at least, beat UNC and they didn’t.

If they declined the NIT out of some sort of anger of being left out of the dance that makes me look at the situation differently. That’s weak. Go compete and get better. You made the dance once after several years as a doormat. You don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt that the big boys get.

[boatcapt]

The devil's advocate position is this: in sports, we like to see things decided on the playing field (and on the scoreboard), not on paper. There is no doubt left once the buzzer sounds--the scoreboard says what the scoreboard says. No gray area. The conference tournaments allow us to decide things on the scoreboard, not with greater responsibility given to committees in board rooms with spreadsheets. [shrug]

Doing away with auto bids for Conference Tourney Champs effectively makes the conference tourney moot. Wonder how long it would be before a top tie (and NCAA Tourney shoe-in) decided to phone in their Conference first round game? Got to get those end of the bench guys "valuable minutes" because "we might need them" in the NCAA tourney. Would it be better for a team to get a two week rest to heal those nagging injuries and go into the NCAA Tourney well rested, healthy and recharged or would it be "better" to beat 0-27 "Southern Pignuckle State" by 30 points for the 3rd time this year?

I would imagine most know my opinion on the power of the "Committee in board rooms with spread sheets" to reach whatever selection/seeding decision they want. These people need LESS authority rather than more. Doing away with the automatic bid for Conference Tourney Champs will give them a bit more authority to engineer the selection/seeding they want.

[IUP24]

Pitt may have wound up as one of the first four out but I can’t get on board with the idea they were snubbed. Halfway through the season they weren’t even in the conversation. Then they got hot and had the massive game at Wake Forest that they no showed. They had a chance to somewhat make up for that at Clemson and fell short. They were out of the conversation again. They rallied again but the hole was too big. They had to, at least, beat UNC and they didn’t.

If they declined the NIT out of some sort of anger of being left out of the dance that makes me look at the situation differently. That’s weak. Go compete and get better. You made the dance once after several years as a doormat. You don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt that the big boys get.

They declined the NIT because it's far more important at this stage not risk missing out on guys in the portal, managing your roster for next year, and ensuring that your two star freshman guards don't leave for the NBA.

On the tournament discussion... The biggest controllable is to simply win your games. Had they not lost twice to Syracuse they would have had 2 additional wins and finished above UVA in the ACC standings. Had they added a win against Clemson, there was zero chance they would have been left out. It takes time for teams to gel. Losing to Missouri and subsequently starting 1-5 in the ACC did not help their cause, but you can't ignore going 12-3 the rest of the way in conference either. I do think however, that UVA being in the field when Pitt had beaten them head to head, was higher in the NET, had more road wins, and more Quad 1 wins, is quite comical.

People seem to talk about the non-conference SOS. But TCU's was worse than Pitt's, along with other metrics too.

And to be clear, I'm not pounding the table for Pitt. But if you're metric of choice is non-conference SOS, you can easily disprove that based on other at-large/bubble selections. Pitt could have won 3 more games and they could've been in the field. They also could have not let RJ Davis score 21 2nd half points on Friday night and finished the game against UNC. That would've given them a chance to cut down the nets in DC on Saturday and been done with it.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Duquesne HC Keith Dambrot has announced he will retire after the NCAA Tournament.

Tough gig but an interesting job.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Andy Toole cleaned house at Robert Morris today - letting go two long-time assistants.

This was their fourth bad year in a row. Firing assistants is usually the last step before getting fired yourself. I'd guess his seat is getting a little warm for the first time.

[Fightingscot82]

Duquesne HC Keith Dambrot has announced he will retire after the NCAA Tournament.

Tough gig but an interesting job.

I believe I read somewhere that his wife is ill. I imagine if true that's a huge factor. He seems like a good guy.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

The Robert Morris women's team hired an assistant from UCF. It will be her first HC job.

[Ship69]

The devil's advocate position is this: in sports, we like to see things decided on the playing field (and on the scoreboard), not on paper. There is no doubt left once the buzzer sounds--the scoreboard says what the scoreboard says. No gray area. The conference tournaments allow us to decide things on the scoreboard, not with greater responsibility given to committees in board rooms with spreadsheets. [shrug]

The problem with that is you've already spent several months deciding the top team in the conference on the court, and then you have a week-long tournament where you basically start things all over again. What the tournaments are for the bigger leagues is a way to make more money; it has very little to do with competitive concerns. The ACC started the whole circus with its tournament. I remember when the ACC-centric announcers such as Packer and Vitale blamed Big 10 failures in the NCAAs on the conference's lack of a league tournament. So then the B1G got a tournament and since then they've won fewer titles than they did before.

[Fightingscot82]

The Robert Morris women's team hired an assistant from UCF. It will be her first HC job.

She seems like a decent hire. I'm curious about her connections to their recruiting core territory but I'll assume they went for a lower cost. She was making about $90k at Mason so probably something similar last season at UCF. I wonder if any familiar names interviewed.

You also have to wonder if Duquesne will talk to Andy Toole. Fast and cheap hire.

[IUP24]

Andy Toole cleaned house at Robert Morris today - letting go two long-time assistants.

This was their fourth bad year in a row. Firing assistants is usually the last step before getting fired yourself. I'd guess his seat is getting a little warm for the first time.

Their move to the Horizon League may have netted them a few extra bucks, but from a competition standpoint, they are so overmatched in that league. Leaving the NEC was a bad move for that reason. Men's basketball was their most competitive program and was the flagship of their athletic department, especially with that new venue.