OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I saw the final match on Twitter. It looked like Clarion had a tremendous, fired up crowd. Wrestling is a big draw there.

It helps that they're currently wrestling in their auditorium during Tippin renovations.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

Whatever it takes ...

I wouldn't care if IUP played in a parking lot if it got a loud and energetic crowd.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

Whatever it takes ...

I wouldn't care if IUP played in a parking lot if it got a loud and energetic crowd.

That actually describes the old playing surface at Lock Haven.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

http://www.goerie.com/news/20180204/...versity-passhe

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

Well that is embarrassing. I could be wrong but I think this is the second suit she's filed against Edinboro. I thought I remember reading somewhere that she, her former assistant coach, and the women's soccer coach reached a settlement. So either this is a continuation of that suit or something else happened.

[WarriorVoice]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

The always innovative PSAC...

[iupgroundhog]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

If it's just about salary it should be easily resolved.

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

Well that is embarrassing. I could be wrong but I think this is the second suit she's filed against Edinboro. I thought I remember reading somewhere that she, her former assistant coach, and the women's soccer coach reached a settlement. So either this is a continuation of that suit or something else happened.

The school backed out of the deal they originally had to adjust salaries....and decided to do another investigation that just ended. THe school just got the results a week or two ago. That was after one or two investigations by the school and passhe showed things were out of balance before. There was no lawsuit filed until now after getting the runaround for 3 years and multiple investigations showing the same thing.

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

If it's just about salary it should be easily resolved.

It was. I don't think it is anymore.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I'm trying to stay out of this one given my role at Edinboro and the personal connection of some who post and lurk on here - but looking at it objectively, this case raises an interesting question: should "equal pay for equal work" consider the profile of a program at a university? For example, should all head coaches make the same amount of money regardless of sport, revenue, profile, fundraising, etc.? We can think and say what we want on here but a federal court could possibly decide that.

[Tony33]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I'm trying to stay out of this one given my role at Edinboro and the personal connection of some who post and lurk on here - but looking at it objectively, this case raises an interesting question: should "equal pay for equal work" consider the profile of a program at a university? For example, should all head coaches make the same amount of money regardless of sport, revenue, profile, fundraising, etc.? We can think and say what we want on here but a federal court could possibly decide that.

BINGO.

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I'm trying to stay out of this one given my role at Edinboro and the personal connection of some who post and lurk on here - but looking at it objectively, this case raises an interesting question: should "equal pay for equal work" consider the profile of a program at a university? For example, should all head coaches make the same amount of money regardless of sport, revenue, profile, fundraising, etc.? We can think and say what we want on here but a federal court could possibly decide that.

I'm all for equality. But within a university sports program I would say that the head football coach and men's head basketball coach should be paid more as they are much more the revenue generators for the school when it comes to athletics. Those jobs are also very competitive and you need to pay them to get good quality coaches. There is no way you should have a field hockey or lacrosse coach on the same wage scale as those who run the money-makers. That would make absolutely no sense at all.

I'm sure in some regions of the country perhaps other sports besides football and men's basketball could be classified as the top dollar programs. Then they should be paid accordingly. There should be no level playing field when it comes to college coach remuneration. It should be all about economics 101.

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[IUsuallyPonder]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I'm all for equality. But within a university sports program I would say that the head football coach and men's head basketball coach should be paid more as they are much more the revenue generators for the school when it comes to athletics. Those jobs are also very competitive and you need to pay them to get good quality coaches. There is no way you should have a field hockey or lacrosse coach on the same wage scale as those who run the money-makers. That would make absolutely no sense at all.

I'm sure in some regions of the country perhaps other sports besides football and men's basketball could be classified as the top dollar programs. Then they should be paid accordingly. There should be no level playing field when it comes to college coach remuneration. It should be all about economics 101.

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You have to remember higher education is different than most employers, most pay is egalitarian. For example, most professors are either three categories: Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, and Professor.

As this image shows, pay is compacted, and this is what would be expected in the Higher Ed and College Sports environment:



I think this coach, especially since she is in the "Tier 1 Sport" is expecting pay that is similar to her counterparts, as would be expected in Higher Ed. However, it can be argued that the program does not make as much money, and could be payed at a rate more comparable to sports of similar revenue. Furthermore, it would be interesting to see how her pay compares to other coaches across the PSAC in the same sport, to see if it was similar. If it is true that she's getting the runaround to avoid paying her a salary that is recommended for someone of her position, that is an issue.

Long post, I know, my HR Compensation is showing... :bulgy-eyes:

[iupgroundhog]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I'm all for equality. But within a university sports program I would say that the head football coach and men's head basketball coach should be paid more as they are much more the revenue generators for the school when it comes to athletics. Those jobs are also very competitive and you need to pay them to get good quality coaches. There is no way you should have a field hockey or lacrosse coach on the same wage scale as those who run the money-makers. That would make absolutely no sense at all.

I'm sure in some regions of the country perhaps other sports besides football and men's basketball could be classified as the top dollar programs. Then they should be paid accordingly. There should be no level playing field when it comes to college coach remuneration. It should be all about economics 101.
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That's all pretty subjective. Unfortunately, rarely does economics 101 encompass all the intricacies and nuances of real life situations. For example, Edinboro has a structure that places sports into Tiers which renders any basic supply and demand analysis less applicable.

It's quite fascinating to learn that Women's Volleyball is accorded a higher Tier level assignment at Edinboro than *** FOOTBALL*** is. What do you think about that?

Plus, just because a sport generates revenue doesn't necessarily mean it makes money. More cases than not these "revenue producing" programs are money losers and often the more grandiose the program the more money it loses.

However, as an Edinboro outsider I'm inclined to cut to the chase here. The AD at Edinboro happens to be the most decorated American wrestler on the international level all-time. Intentional or not, the athletics department is structured in a way to maintain the Scots' prowess in wrestling. This is to the detriment of other sports. That's the way it is. I say that as a huge D1 college wrestling fan. I'm not trying to knock 'Boro down in wrestling, I'm just saying that's the way it is. I think this has all been under the surface for some time now at Edinboro.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

That's all pretty subjective. Unfortunately, rarely does economics 101 encompass all the intricacies and nuances of real life situations. For example, Edinboro has a structure that places sports into Tiers which renders any basic supply and demand analysis less applicable.

It's quite fascinating to learn that Women's Volleyball is accorded a higher Tier level assignment at Edinboro than *** FOOTBALL*** is. What do you think about that?

Plus, just because a sport generates revenue doesn't necessarily mean it makes money. More cases than not these "revenue producing" programs are money losers and often the more grandiose the program the more money it loses.

However, as an Edinboro outsider I'm inclined to cut to the chase here. The AD at Edinboro happens to be the most decorated American wrestler on the international level all-time. Intentional or not, the athletics department is structured in a way to maintain the Scots' prowess in wrestling. This is to the detriment of other sports. That's the way it is. I say that as a huge D1 college wrestling fan. I'm not trying to knock 'Boro down in wrestling, I'm just saying that's the way it is. I think this has all been under the surface for some time now at Edinboro.

When this came out it was the first time I've heard the 'tiers' term used specific to Edinboro. I asked some folks about it and it was explained to me that its prioritization of general scholarship revenue. Wrestling brings in a ton of money but also requires more to be able to compete at the Division I level. It was explained to me that football is Tier 2 because they do well fundraising but still need to draw from general scholarship funds to be able to compete in the PSAC West. So its not so much as saying one is more important than the other, but you hit the nail on the head that wrestling is more important than others. That's been the case for 30 years and even chronicled in a book I very much recommend, The Fighting Scots of Edinboro.