OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

[Mikefln]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

That's probably the only way psac and d2 sports can be looked at from the school perspective. What is the dollar value for each athlete as a student to the university. A few hundred kids that probably wouldn't be on campus paying 20k to the school. Filling the dorms and eating the meal plans.

Why do you think so many D3 schools started football teams in the last 10 years. Look how many freshman boys there are on a D2/D3 team and look how many soph/Jr/Srs there are on your typical D2/D3 team. While some of those freshman leave the school many stay and just don't play sports anymore.

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

A Federal court should not have any say in that. There are 32 starting QBs in the NFL all making way different incomes for the same job as a starting NFL QB. If you want to argue that each team is an independent business so that argument doesn't work. Ok then most teams have 3 QBs on the team and they make different incomes. My point is there is no such thing as equal pay for equal work. Pay is determined by 3 things. 1) ability 2) need of said ability at time of negotiation and finally 3) negotiation ability. I have the same title as 12 other people in my office and who know how many people with that title company wide. None of us are paid the same and none of us does "equal work". This whole "Equal Pay for Equal Work" is a rouse spoken from people trying to manipulate the system for their own gain. It is then the rally cry of the masses who lack the common sense to realize just how stupid and unrealistic said comment really is.

Why do women generally get paid less than men? I would venture to guess it is number 3, negotiation ability. From my own experiences and my own experiences only, men are more willing to fight harder/hold out for a higher wage and men are more likely to ask for/demand a raise.

Women don't get paid as much because they wont fight for it.... like how? a lawsuit?

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I was citing EWL conference titles.

I'm not going to engage you any further on here because of your connection to this lawsuit. There's nothing I could explain or say that would move your position one inch.

I didn't think talking Wrestling to Football had anything to do with a Volleyball/ title 9 lawsuit. But ok. I was disagreeing that wrestling adds any of the things you said. Students, money, and notoriety.

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

"Interesting" is a good word for it. I think that has more to do with athletics department accounting than anything else. You can get a ticket for this Saturday's PSU-Iowa match in the Bryce Jordan Center (capacity 15, 261) from a third party vendor online for a low of $123 up to a high of $200. The match is a sellout. That's 15, 261 tickets plus SRO sales. They are bringing in millions from dual meet attendance. Plus, I think they get a cut of revenue from the Big Ten Network (BTN). Then there is revenue from wrestling-specific memorabilia which I am sure is not counted in their balance sheet. It's only 9.9 scholarships, travel, and the other expenses so they are coming out ahead. Oh, well there is the reported 7 figure salary for the head coach, too. It's a matter of time until pennlive demands to know what Sanderson makes. For people who want to know. Remember, pennlive spent years going after JoePa's salary and then it turned out he made $1.5 mil., much less than most major college coaches.

One of the things I read made sense is that the D1 programs don't try to make a profit. They blow whatever money they can. I'm sure schools like Penn ST. could easily make money with wrestling but blow a bunch that's allotted to them from football money...like the rest of the other sports. I heard of one coach there that says he gets so much money and if he don't spend it he wont get it the next year....so they blow it. I can only imagine how much pork could be cut from athletic programs like Penn st. if they wanted to maximize profit.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I read in to her case a little closer today.

If this 'Tier' thing is accurate .... she's got a pretty good case. I don't think many see volleyball on par with football but if that's the structure they use .... That's a problem.

This may get a little messy for the Scots ... and then eventually the rest of the PSAC.

She is just leading the charge. Many will follow. First one through the wall always gets a little messy.

Private sector ... they'd pretty much tell her to shut up or she'd just be creatively terminated. But ... this is much different. I kind of like her chances if it gets to court.

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

https://www.flowrestling.org/article...to-penn-state-

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

Michigan from a few years ago

http://smartycents.com/articles/coll...tball-revenue/


https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristid.../#5752492c366f

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I didn't think talking Wrestling to Football had anything to do with a Volleyball/ title 9 lawsuit. But ok. I was disagreeing that wrestling adds any of the things you said. Students, money, and notoriety.

Part of that lawsuit is comparing wrestling and football (and basketball) to women's basketball. You know that and you know that I know that you know that.

Like you said, that's 35 kids attending Edinboro who wouldn't be there if not for wrestling. A lot of them paying out of state tuition too.

The fundraising for each sport is public record. Wrestling brings in a ton of money. Every sport benefits from the Bruce & Flynn camps. Ticket sales for those Iowa and Oklahoma matches benefits every sport. I do see online that those coaches are hustling for dollars. Camps, a golf outing, and a casino night are what I can see online. There are some teams I've never seen hold a fundraising event.

Outside of Erie County if anyone has heard of Edinboro University chances are it's because of wrestling.

I'm not taking their side. I'm not taking anybody's side. But this lawsuit won't be won by arguing that the dollars spent on other sports would be better spent on my own. My kids won't ever convince me to give them something they want just because other kids have it. That's just not a good argument.

[Mikefln]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

Women don't get paid as much because they wont fight for it.... like how? a lawsuit?

No not a lawsuit. Instead research the job/company and go into the negotiations knowing you won't take less than X and demanding X. If X was lower than someone you feel is equal or below you, you should have done more research and learn for next time. Going for a lawsuit is very weak.

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

Its not comparing mens sport wrestling to mens sport football though. I'm not arguing other sports taking others money. I'm saying D1 wrestling being a big deal for bringing money to Edinboro.... I don't see it. JMO

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

No not a lawsuit. Instead research the job/company and go into the negotiations knowing you won't take less than X and demanding X. If X was lower than someone you feel is equal or below you, you should have done more research and learn for next time. Going for a lawsuit is very weak.

So do more research. Ask for it. Get it. Ok got it. This should be in a text book somewhere. What if someone after you gets hired higher or raises throw off the scale. How would a strong negotiator handle it? Or even better you employer agrees youre right and agrees to a raise ....then says wait never mind. Then what?

[Mikefln]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I love how out of my whole argument this is where you chose to debate. Ever hear of glassdoor.com. It is a website that has tons of data about companies and their pay scales in certain cities. That would be a great place to start researching this information.

If someone gets higher wage after you? That is my whole point, there is no such thing as equal pay for equal work. Like I stated there are 11 men 1 woman in my office with the same title/job and all of us make different salary. Some making up to over $10 grand more than the lowest paid. That is life, perform better than you are currently and come yearly review you can make the demand to be one of the higher paid at that position. There is a reason why Rothisberger makes way more than Landry Jones and Kurt Cousins despite all of them being NFL qbs.

That is how it is supposed to work. Instead people want it handed to them just because they are there. Like I said equal pay for equal work is a fallacy. It never happened it never will.

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

Your whole argument? Maybe I missed a post somewhere... 10k isn't much of a spread. Come in yearly review and demand it. Is that rich dad poor dad? I'm mad this wasn't covered at Edinboro.

I think PASSHE has different rules for salaries than the NFL though but I like it. I'm no Bernie Sanders guy here.

[EdinboroFB]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

Why are 12 of you paid so close together. I'm sure there is some dead weight in that 12.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: OT: Title IX and Men's Sports

I work for a private employer and have no idea how much others with my same title are making so I can't worry about it. If I want to make more I have to prove that I'm worth more.