John Matocha is The Best Player in D2 Football

[KleShreen]

Sometimes ya post things without giving any thought about the other games or teams that a squad has played. This is one of those times.

Do you think John Matocha was the best player in Division II football in 2022? Or do you think he put up the best numbers?

We need, as a whole, to figure out what the Harlon Hill is supposed to be. Is it supposed to be the best player? Is it supposed to be the best statistical player, regardless of competition? Is it the most valuable player? I believe that's where the difference is happening in this discussion, currently.

I think Matocha falls in to the middle option. I don't believe he falls in to the first (probably Murphy or Barrow or Laing) or third (probably Byers or Wilson).

[Brandon]

We need, as a whole, to figure out what the Harlon Hill is supposed to be. Is it supposed to be the best player? Is it supposed to be the best statistical player, regardless of competition? Is it the most valuable player? I believe that's where the difference is happening in this discussion, currently.

Everyone has their own definition.

MVP, OPY, and DPOY are all different things in my opinion.

[KleShreen]

Everyone has their own definition.

MVP, OPY, and DPOY are all different things in my opinion.

The Harlon Hill should have some kind of definition to it. Because right now, it goes to the person who puts up the best statistics, regardless of competition. I would say only four times in the last 10 years has the award gone to the actual best player in Division II football, OR the most valuable player. JVL twice, I think fit both molds, and then Jayru and Luis Perez probably fit the MVP definition. But by and large, it goes to whoever puts up the most outrageous stats, no matter what. Matocha, Bagent, Rivers, Dvorak, Quiteh, Zulli. All just crazy numbers against awful competition.

[Brandon]

against awful competition.

Agreed. No one that plays Grand Valley should be in consideration.

[Brandon]

The Harlon Hill should have some kind of definition to it. Because right now, it goes to the person who puts up the best statistics, regardless of competition. I would say only four times in the last 10 years has the award gone to the actual best player in Division II football, OR the most valuable player. JVL twice, I think fit both molds, and then Jayru and Luis Perez probably fit the MVP definition. But by and large, it goes to whoever puts up the most outrageous stats, no matter what. Matocha, Bagent, Rivers, Dvorak, Quiteh, Zulli. All just crazy numbers against awful competition.

Okay, now a serious response.

I have no issue with Matocha winning it and I would have voted for him if I had a vote.

I hate it when stats are the main factor in people picking awards. Stats are not created equal. This isn't the NFL.

I seem to recall that you were supporting Byers in another thread. Is that incorrect?

[champgymusa]

Watching Matchoa play kind of reminded me of watching Cullen Finnerty at times. Thats about the best compliment that I can offer. If you knew Cullen and were around him you would get it...if not, well I am sorry cause he was special. All of the HH finalists have certain things going for them of course. I watched Murphy get handled pretty much by Barrow in the GVSU games. Is Murphy really good? Yea..hell yes he is...without Murphy is the Ferris D still pretty good? yea...without Matchoa is the Mines O the same? doubtful...anyway...both are good and I am happy with the results of the voting.

[Redwing]

Sometimes ya post things without giving any thought about the other games or teams that a squad has played. This is one of those times.

It's a large challenge for FSUBulldog27 to have a thought anyway. (Couldn't resist.)

[KleShreen]

Watching Matchoa play kind of reminded me of watching Cullen Finnerty at times. Thats about the best compliment that I can offer. If you knew Cullen and were around him you would get it...if not, well I am sorry cause he was special. All of the HH finalists have certain things going for them of course. I watched Murphy get handled pretty much by Barrow in the GVSU games. Is Murphy really good? Yea..hell yes he is...without Murphy is the Ferris D still pretty good? yea...without Matchoa is the Mines O the same? doubtful...anyway...both are good and I am happy with the results of the voting.

2022: John Matocha - 299 yards/game, 52 TD, 8 INT. 443 yards, 5 TD rushing in 16 games
2021: John Matocha - 222 yards/game, 38 TD, 8 INT, 492 yards, 7 TD rushing in 14 games
2019: John Matocha - 235 yards/game, 29 TD, 5 INT, 598 yards, 11 TD rushing in 12 games
2018: Isaac Harker - 321 yards/game, 39 TD, 12 INT, 142 yards, 3 TD rushing in 12 games
2017: Split QB duties, and the one year in the last many which they ran the ball more than passed
2016: Justin Dvorak - 353 yards/game, 53 TD, 10 INT, 358 yards, 8 TD rushing in 13 games
2015: Justin Dvorak - 369 yards/game, 39 TD, 6 INT, 235 yards, 7 TD rushing in 10 games
2014: Justin Dvorak - 357 yards/game, 36 TD, 10 INT, 384 yards, 8 TD rushing in 12 games
2013: Split QB duties, but averaged 319 yards/game, 29 TD, 9 INT in 11 games
2012: Matt Brown - 352 yards/game, 31 TD, 15 INT, 154 yards, 5 TD rushing in 11 games
2011: Clay Garcia - 284 yards/game, 28 TD, 8 INT in 11 games
2010: Clay Garcia - 339 yards/game, 39 TD, 13 INT in 12 games
2009: David Pesek - 321 yards/game, 28 TD, 6 INT in 11 games

All Mines does is turn out prolific QB offenses. Three Mines QB's have now won the Harlon Hill in the last 18 seasons. Which leads me to suggest that it is the offensive philosophy of Mines. Not that they monopolize QB talent that nobody else has. Whoever is the QB next year, whether it is Matocha or someone else, is going to also throw the ball for nearly 300 yards/game and have a 4:1 TD/INT ratio. That's what they all do at Mines. In the same way that you could rely on Texas Tech QB's to lead the nation in passing under Mike Leach. Yet none of them ever won the Heisman.

[KleShreen]

Okay, now a serious response.

I have no issue with Matocha winning it and I would have voted for him if I had a vote.

I hate it when stats are the main factor in people picking awards. Stats are not created equal. This isn't the NFL.

I seem to recall that you were supporting Byers in another thread. Is that incorrect?

I said Byers and Wilson probably would have been the two best options for the award if we were considering it an MVP award. I think both of their teams are .500 at best without them.

[champgymusa]

2022: John Matocha - 299 yards/game, 52 TD, 8 INT. 443 yards, 5 TD rushing in 16 games
2021: John Matocha - 222 yards/game, 38 TD, 8 INT, 492 yards, 7 TD rushing in 14 games
2019: John Matocha - 235 yards/game, 29 TD, 5 INT, 598 yards, 11 TD rushing in 12 games
2018: Isaac Harker - 321 yards/game, 39 TD, 12 INT, 142 yards, 3 TD rushing in 12 games
2017: Split QB duties, and the one year in the last many which they ran the ball more than passed
2016: Justin Dvorak - 353 yards/game, 53 TD, 10 INT, 358 yards, 8 TD rushing in 13 games
2015: Justin Dvorak - 369 yards/game, 39 TD, 6 INT, 235 yards, 7 TD rushing in 10 games
2014: Justin Dvorak - 357 yards/game, 36 TD, 10 INT, 384 yards, 8 TD rushing in 12 games
2013: Split QB duties, but averaged 319 yards/game, 29 TD, 9 INT in 11 games
2012: Matt Brown - 352 yards/game, 31 TD, 15 INT, 154 yards, 5 TD rushing in 11 games
2011: Clay Garcia - 284 yards/game, 28 TD, 8 INT in 11 games
2010: Clay Garcia - 339 yards/game, 39 TD, 13 INT in 12 games
2009: David Pesek - 321 yards/game, 28 TD, 6 INT in 11 games

All Mines does is turn out prolific QB offenses. Three Mines QB's have now won the Harlon Hill in the last 18 seasons. Which leads me to suggest that it is the offensive philosophy of Mines. Not that they monopolize QB talent that nobody else has. Whoever is the QB next year, whether it is Matocha or someone else, is going to also throw the ball for nearly 300 yards/game and have a 4:1 TD/INT ratio. That's what they all do at Mines. In the same way that you could rely on Texas Tech QB's to lead the nation in passing under Mike Leach. Yet none of them ever won the Heisman.

For me the stats were not what I cared about...I just loved the way Matocha played the game...how he interacted with this team mates, his emotions and how he competed..reminded me a ton of #16...yea I am old school but those things carry a lot of weight with me. The kid is a baller.

[togthorn]

If you look at Zemen’s and Mayberry’s rushing numbers Mines offense wasn’t strictly relying on a passing game for the last few years.

[Matt Witwicki]

2022: John Matocha - 299 yards/game, 52 TD, 8 INT. 443 yards, 5 TD rushing in 16 games
2021: John Matocha - 222 yards/game, 38 TD, 8 INT, 492 yards, 7 TD rushing in 14 games
2019: John Matocha - 235 yards/game, 29 TD, 5 INT, 598 yards, 11 TD rushing in 12 games
2018: Isaac Harker - 321 yards/game, 39 TD, 12 INT, 142 yards, 3 TD rushing in 12 games
2017: Split QB duties, and the one year in the last many which they ran the ball more than passed
2016: Justin Dvorak - 353 yards/game, 53 TD, 10 INT, 358 yards, 8 TD rushing in 13 games
2015: Justin Dvorak - 369 yards/game, 39 TD, 6 INT, 235 yards, 7 TD rushing in 10 games
2014: Justin Dvorak - 357 yards/game, 36 TD, 10 INT, 384 yards, 8 TD rushing in 12 games
2013: Split QB duties, but averaged 319 yards/game, 29 TD, 9 INT in 11 games
2012: Matt Brown - 352 yards/game, 31 TD, 15 INT, 154 yards, 5 TD rushing in 11 games
2011: Clay Garcia - 284 yards/game, 28 TD, 8 INT in 11 games
2010: Clay Garcia - 339 yards/game, 39 TD, 13 INT in 12 games
2009: David Pesek - 321 yards/game, 28 TD, 6 INT in 11 games

All Mines does is turn out prolific QB offenses. Three Mines QB's have now won the Harlon Hill in the last 18 seasons. Which leads me to suggest that it is the offensive philosophy of Mines. Not that they monopolize QB talent that nobody else has. Whoever is the QB next year, whether it is Matocha or someone else, is going to also throw the ball for nearly 300 yards/game and have a 4:1 TD/INT ratio. That's what they all do at Mines. In the same way that you could rely on Texas Tech QB's to lead the nation in passing under Mike Leach. Yet none of them ever won the Heisman.

Kle,

You've watched our show on Sunday nights and we've spoken at great length about all the things Matocha does outstanding..and his playoff run even heightened his stock from there. To suggest they didn't play anybody good unless they were GLIAC teams is foolish, but I think you've now said that enough times you've even got yourself believing D2 only has like 3-4 good teams.

The HH award for me....a combination of having the numbers (which he did better than any player), being a clutch player (he had that big time in their playoff run), and being the top player on a good squad. To me, it's not who's the best prospect at a position that isn't the most important on the field. That's probably why you don't see an offensive tackle or defensive end winning a league MVP almost ever....the QB spot is simply the most important position on the field..any coach will tell you that.

In your post you make it sound like they are just an air raid offense..but wait, they run the ball very well unlike those kinda offenses....so actually, their offense is very complete. Just about anyone who watched him against GV was really impressed with his abilities after week 1..including your head coach, who spoke highly of him and also our GLIAC columnist who kinda knows the league..a lot. So I guess we're down to just you (and the Ferris fans) thinking he's a system guy that's not all that good. I can live with that.

[KleShreen]

Kle,

You've watched our show on Sunday nights and we've spoken at great length about all the things Matocha does outstanding..and his playoff run even heightened his stock from there. To suggest they didn't play anybody good unless they were GLIAC teams is foolish, but I think you've now said that enough times you've even got yourself believing D2 only has like 3-4 good teams.

The HH award for me....a combination of having the numbers (which he did better than any player), being a clutch player (he had that big time in their playoff run), and being the top player on a good squad. To me, it's not who's the best prospect at a position that isn't the most important on the field. That's probably why you don't see an offensive tackle or defensive end winning a league MVP almost ever....the QB spot is simply the most important position on the field..any coach will tell you that.

In your post you make it sound like they are just an air raid offense..but wait, they run the ball very well unlike those kinda offenses....so actually, their offense is very complete. Just about anyone who watched him against GV was really impressed with his abilities after week 1..including your head coach, who spoke highly of him and also our GLIAC columnist who kinda knows the league..a lot. So I guess we're down to just you (and the Ferris fans) thinking he's a system guy that's not all that good. I can live with that.

The RMAC, by-and-large, is not a good conference when compared nationally. I would say it is a mid-tier conference. It's not as good as the GLIAC or MIAA or GSC, but it is better than the PSAC or SAC or GAC. RMAC and NSIC are pretty similar, maybe the NSIC is a little stronger, top to bottom. Matocha did alright against GV and Angelo. He was horrendous against Ferris. He dominated the RMAC. I'm not going to sit here and be one of the people who just ignores relative conference strength and opponent level, though. If we're not going to take those things in to consideration, we might as well just not even consider anyone within the GLIAC, MIAA, GSC, or NSIC. Those conferences are all at an inherent disadvantage for this award because they have well-coached and talented defenses, when other conferences do not. The "best player" in those conferences isn't going to put up the numbers of the "best player" in the other conferences, but I would hope people understand why that is.

I'm not suggesting Mines is an air raid offense. I'm just pointing out, based on the comments I replied to, that Mines has a history of turning out prolific QB's in their offensive system. Matocha is not some unicorn that Mines has never seen before. I don't think I'm breaking any news here. There's been a plethora of stories done on how Mines under Bob Stitt and Gregg Brandon was always a prolific offense, and put up huge QB numbers. It's not an "air raid" offense, but it is definitely a well-honed system that is beneficial to QB's more than possibly any other D2 school in the country. In the same way that Navy and Army always have prolific rushing numbers for fullbacks.

Is Matocha the best Mines QB to do it? Probably. He and Dvorak are pretty close. But that's why I'm asking the question of what should the Harlon Hill Award be? Should it be a Best Offensive Player award, should it be a Most Valuable Player award, should it be a Best Player on a Good Team award? It would really clear things up if there was just some clarity on what is being considered by the voters. But they all vote in their own way, so there isn't really any consistency. When someone calls it the award for the "best player in D2 football," that's not what Matocha is. The "best player" in D2 is probably not even a skill player and might not even be on a playoff team. Matocha might fall under the "Best Offensive Player" descriptor. That's all I'm saying. I just think there should be some clarity on what the award is being given for from year to year. Historically, it appears it is simply a "best statistics on a decent team" award. If that's what it is, then that's fine. I'm good with that. But then we shouldn't be calling it the "best player in D2 football".

I know this comes off like I'm attacking Matocha. That isn't my intention. This has been a common occurrence with the Harlon Hill for decades now. I just think it's a bad look for three straight years now when our "best player in D2 football" gets a nationally-televised game and gets embarrassed. It makes the entire division look bad, and I think it shows a huge blind spot in voting for the award when the person who is awarded it, or about to be awarded it, gets absolutely crushed when facing an opponent their team is supposed to be competitive with. Happened to Matocha, happened to Bagent, happened to Rivers. If it was a case of these winners just losing close games deep in the playoffs, fine. It happens. Not a big deal. But they're getting absolutely blown out of the water.

[Ram040506]

To completely dismiss Rivers, Bagent and Matocha I think is ridiculous. Line play is the difference between all these teams. Ferris line play against Bagent negated any effect he could possibly have on the game. If you put Rivers or Bagent or Matocha on Grand Valley or Ferris team this year, they smoke everyone worse than they even did most weeks this year. That #8 for Ferris the QB, doesn't hold a candle to those other 3 QB's. Those 3 would light up the whole country at every program. Agree to disagree I guess.

[KleShreen]

To completely dismiss Rivers, Bagent and Matocha I think is ridiculous. Line play is the difference between all these teams. Ferris line play against Bagent negated any effect he could possibly have on the game. If you put Rivers or Bagent or Matocha on Grand Valley or Ferris team this year, they smoke everyone worse than they even did most weeks this year. That #8 for Ferris the QB, doesn't hold a candle to those other 3 QB's. Those 3 would light up the whole country at every program. Agree to disagree I guess.

You're kind of agreeing with me, then. Those QB's feasted against teams with bad defenses. They struggled against teams with good defenses. The QB's in the GLIAC, MIAA, GSC, etc., have to go up against those defenses every week. It is inherently tougher. Shepherd and Mines both have all-americans on their offensive line. It's not like those three QB's were playing with garbage in front of them on the OL. But if you are implying that their line play isn't as good, then doesn't that play in to exactly what I'm saying about the level of competition?