John Matocha is The Best Player in D2 Football

[Ram040506]

You're kind of agreeing with me, then. Those QB's feasted against teams with bad defenses. They struggled against teams with good defenses. The QB's in the GLIAC, MIAA, GSC, etc., have to go up against those defenses every week. It is inherently tougher. Shepherd and Mines both have all-americans on their offensive line. It's not like those three QB's were playing with garbage in front of them on the OL. But if you are implying that their line play isn't as good, then doesn't that play in to exactly what I'm saying about the level of competition?

I'm trying to meet you half way here. You are completely dismissing these guys as system hacks who couldn't cut it in your league, which is BS.

Matocha struggled against 1 defense, Ferris. He didn't struggle against GV (350 2 TD's no TO's). You are acting like the entire GLIAC has teams just like GV and Ferris. They don't, and it's ridiculous to imply that your whole league is built in the same manner. You put Matocha on Ferris and they win every game by 30, EVERY game. You put Matocha on GV and they are the National Champions. Same goes for Bagent and Rivers. They are all great talents who had exceptional seasons. But yes, they fell short on the national stage when their team was outgunned in the trenches, that isn't their individual fault.

I agree only that yes, in terms of level of competition they aren't playing GV, Ferris and NWMS every week. They don't see those teams until the last week or 2 of the season. But you guys aren't playing those types of teams every week either.

[Matt Witwicki]

I'm trying to meet you half way here. You are completely dismissing these guys as system hacks who couldn't cut it in your league, which is BS.

Matocha struggled against 1 defense, Ferris. He didn't struggle against GV (350 2 TD's no TO's). You are acting like the entire GLIAC has teams just like GV and Ferris. They don't, and it's ridiculous to imply that your whole league is built in the same manner. You put Matocha on Ferris and they win every game by 30, EVERY game. You put Matocha on GV and they are the National Champions. Same goes for Bagent and Rivers. They are all great talents who had exceptional seasons. But yes, they fell short on the national stage when their team was outgunned in the trenches, that isn't their individual fault.

I agree only that yes, in terms of level of competition they aren't playing GV, Ferris and NWMS every week. They don't see those teams until the last week or 2 of the season. But you guys aren't playing those types of teams every week either.

Fantastic post. Well done.

[KleShreen]

I'm trying to meet you half way here. You are completely dismissing these guys as system hacks who couldn't cut it in your league, which is BS.

Matocha struggled against 1 defense, Ferris. He didn't struggle against GV (350 2 TD's no TO's). You are acting like the entire GLIAC has teams just like GV and Ferris. They don't, and it's ridiculous to imply that your whole league is built in the same manner. You put Matocha on Ferris and they win every game by 30, EVERY game. You put Matocha on GV and they are the National Champions. Same goes for Bagent and Rivers. They are all great talents who had exceptional seasons. But yes, they fell short on the national stage when their team was outgunned in the trenches, that isn't their individual fault.

I agree only that yes, in terms of level of competition they aren't playing GV, Ferris and NWMS every week. They don't see those teams until the last week or 2 of the season. But you guys aren't playing those types of teams every week either.

The middle of the GLIAC/MIAA would be competing for the conference titles in every other conference in the country. The bottom of the GLIAC/MIAA (with the exception of maybe Lincoln, probably), would be mid-tier in every other conference in the country. GV isn't facing Ferris every week, and Pitt isn't facing NW Missouri every week, but they're facing the equivalent of the top or middle of every other conference besides the MIAA and GSC every week. Wayne State's only win of the season was against a team that finished right in the middle of the CIAA. SVSU, a middle-tier GLIAC team, rolled over one of the middle-tier CIAA teams and steamrolled the GLVC champion. Michigan Tech, arguably the second-worst team in the GLIAC, lost at the buzzer against one of the Lone Star's better teams. It's the same song and dance every year. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess the same thing would happen with the MIAA schools if they played out of conference considering they don't normally have much issue with any other conference's best in the semifinals or finals when they get there.

I'm not blaming these QB's for being outgunned on a national stage. I'm saying maybe we need to better consider the competition they are facing if they are putting up gigantic numbers for 12 weeks out of the year and getting crushed in the 13th or 14th week constantly against teams outside of their own conference and region. I'm saying we should consider what they're playing against when it comes to this award. We aren't giving out the Heisman to anyone in the Mountain West or MAC. Because people understand that if you are a good football player who is probably better than everyone else in your conference in those conferences, you're probably going to put up inflated numbers. It's why Austin Reed wasn't being considered for the Heisman after leading FBS in passing yards and passing touchdowns. He's not playing against the same caliber of defense week-after-week as Caleb Williams, CJ Stroud, or Stetson Bennett did. Bennett finished top four in the Heisman voting despite throwing for exactly half the TD's as Reed and just over half the yards. There's enough knowledge at the FBS level to understand why that is. D2 voters do not have that knowledge.

I'm just simply asking that when it comes to our division's top player award, we maybe get some voters involved who understand that there's vast differences in competitive level between the different conferences and regions and that it should be accounted for. Right now it isn't taken in to account except, apparently, when it comes to HBCU conferences, where voters seem to be content ignoring those players no matter what kind of numbers they put up.

I fully understand I'm probably in the minority, or at least the only one willing to bring this up. I just feel like we've reached a point where it has become a pattern that should be addressed. I also fully understand that D2 football is essentially a duopoly of conferences and a monopoly of regional success, and naturally the people who aren't part of that monopoly or duopoly are going to disagree.

Harlon Hill winners by super region in the last 20 years:

SR1: 5
SR2: 2
SR3: 5
SR4: 7

How is it that the widely-accepted two most talented and nationally-productive regions are last and tied with what is widely-regarded as the worst region for talent, SR1, for Harlon Hill winners? This shouldn't be happening. Compare that to the national champions over the last 20 years, which is 10 from SR3, 5 from SR2, 4 from SR4, and 0 from SR1.

[Brandon]

Should someone from the ACC win the Heisman?

[Runnin' Cat]

How is it that the widely-accepted two most talented and nationally-productive regions are last and tied with what is widely-regarded as the worst region for talent, SR1, for Harlon Hill winners? This shouldn't be happening. Compare that to the national champions over the last 20 years, which is 10 from SR3, 5 from SR2, 4 from SR4, and 0 from SR1.

How are you assuming that a correlation exists between NCs and HHs?

[Matt Witwicki]

The middle of the GLIAC/MIAA would be competing for the conference titles in every other conference in the country. The bottom of the GLIAC/MIAA (with the exception of maybe Lincoln, probably), would be mid-tier in every other conference in the country. GV isn't facing Ferris every week, and Pitt isn't facing NW Missouri every week, but they're facing the equivalent of the top or middle of every other conference besides the MIAA and GSC every week. Wayne State's only win of the season was against a team that finished right in the middle of the CIAA. SVSU, a middle-tier GLIAC team, rolled over one of the middle-tier CIAA teams and steamrolled the GLVC champion. Michigan Tech, arguably the second-worst team in the GLIAC, lost at the buzzer against one of the Lone Star's better teams. It's the same song and dance every year. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess the same thing would happen with the MIAA schools if they played out of conference considering they don't normally have much issue with any other conference's best in the semifinals or finals when they get there.

I'm not blaming these QB's for being outgunned on a national stage. I'm saying maybe we need to better consider the competition they are facing if they are putting up gigantic numbers for 12 weeks out of the year and getting crushed in the 13th or 14th week constantly against teams outside of their own conference and region. I'm saying we should consider what they're playing against when it comes to this award. We aren't giving out the Heisman to anyone in the Mountain West or MAC. Because people understand that if you are a good football player who is probably better than everyone else in your conference in those conferences, you're probably going to put up inflated numbers. It's why Austin Reed wasn't being considered for the Heisman after leading FBS in passing yards and passing touchdowns. He's not playing against the same caliber of defense week-after-week as Caleb Williams, CJ Stroud, or Stetson Bennett did. Bennett finished top four in the Heisman voting despite throwing for exactly half the TD's as Reed and just over half the yards. There's enough knowledge at the FBS level to understand why that is. D2 voters do not have that knowledge.

I'm just simply asking that when it comes to our division's top player award, we maybe get some voters involved who understand that there's vast differences in competitive level between the different conferences and regions and that it should be accounted for. Right now it isn't taken in to account except, apparently, when it comes to HBCU conferences, where voters seem to be content ignoring those players no matter what kind of numbers they put up.

I fully understand I'm probably in the minority, or at least the only one willing to bring this up. I just feel like we've reached a point where it has become a pattern that should be addressed. I also fully understand that D2 football is essentially a duopoly of conferences and a monopoly of regional success, and naturally the people who aren't part of that monopoly or duopoly are going to disagree.

Harlon Hill winners by super region in the last 20 years:

SR1: 5
SR2: 2
SR3: 5
SR4: 7

How is it that the widely-accepted two most talented and nationally-productive regions are last and tied with what is widely-regarded as the worst region for talent, SR1, for Harlon Hill winners? This shouldn't be happening. Compare that to the national champions over the last 20 years, which is 10 from SR3, 5 from SR2, 4 from SR4, and 0 from SR1.

So..

Mines loses to GV 25-22 in Michigan where GV has a clear home field advantage. Outgaining the home squad by over 50 yards in the contest = not a fluke. Matocha completes 70% of his passes and throws for 350 and 2 scores in the process.

GV then stomps every other GLIAC opponent (save Ferris) by no less than 19..but by an average of 34ppg. The GLIAC has strong conference depth..? Nobody else could even give GV a game.

Matocha after the GV game plays against the following squads....Angelo, CSUP, CSUP, Mankato, Angelo, Shepherd, and then Ferris. That's 5 games against the top 11 in our final D2 poll..and 7 games total vs the top 25. How many other quarterbacks played against more good teams this year..and still has as strong of numbers as he did..?

[DawgUp]

To completely dismiss Rivers, Bagent and Matocha I think is ridiculous. Line play is the difference between all these teams. Ferris line play against Bagent negated any effect he could possibly have on the game. If you put Rivers or Bagent or Matocha on Grand Valley or Ferris team this year, they smoke everyone worse than they even did most weeks this year. That #8 for Ferris the QB, doesn't hold a candle to those other 3 QB's. Those 3 would light up the whole country at every program. Agree to disagree I guess.

Easy Ram. You put Rivers, Bagent and Matocha on Ferris and they won't last the season and definitely would not put up the stats they did at their respective programs. Same for GV. These are QBs who are effective in the system they run, which is a pass first system. Jared Bernhardt (he played lacrosse in case you didn't know) was effective in the system he was in, but would not have been if he played for one of those 3 teams. That matters whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

There aren't too many D2 qbs who you can put in multiple systems and they would come out as HH candidates in either system. Either way, valid points have been made by all sides in this debate:

System matters
Competition matters (contrary to statements made, Mines had a helluva schedule this year)
Stats matters
Line play matters
Skill position talent matters
etc.

What i'll give Matocha credit for is that his play on the field made his stats secondary. If you watched him he made plays that left you shaking your head. Reminded me of Don Majkowski with the way he escaped plays and made throws from crazy angles (you youngins don't know anything about that) : )

And for the record, that #8 QB for Ferris, tore his liscfranc ligament in the first game, came back and played GV on one foot in the regular season, then had surgery to sew his big toe and second toe together after the game. Played the rest of the season like that. Led us to the Natty. Mylik Mitchell - Put some respect on his name.

[KleShreen]

So..

Mines loses to GV 25-22 in Michigan where GV has a clear home field advantage. Outgaining the home squad by over 50 yards in the contest = not a fluke. Matocha completes 70% of his passes and throws for 350 and 2 scores in the process.

GV then stomps every other GLIAC opponent (save Ferris) by no less than 19..but by an average of 34ppg. The GLIAC has strong conference depth..? Nobody else could even give GV a game.

Matocha after the GV game plays against the following squads....Angelo, CSUP, CSUP, Mankato, Angelo, Shepherd, and then Ferris. That's 5 games against the top 11 in our final D2 poll..and 7 games total vs the top 25. How many other quarterbacks played against more good teams this year..and still has as strong of numbers as he did..?

I'll emphasize, AGAIN, that I'm not knocking Matocha or Bagent or Rivers as good football players. I'm knocking the opposition they played against, and pointing out how that competition results in inflated statistics, which is what the Harlon Hill voters then use to determine the award winner, with no knowledge of the level of competition. Matocha is a very good football player, and a perfect fit for the Mines system.

GV was up 17-0 halfway through the 3rd quarter, with a secondary that had only one player in it with prior playing experience at the position they were playing in, against the most experienced receiving corps in the country.

Matocha was 8/13 for 76 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, and 3 sacks at halftime. With 6:30 to play in the 3rd quarter, he was 10/17 for 85 yards. GV went in to their usual prevent defense, and he proceeded to hit passes of 49 and 40 yards for touchdowns where the DB fell down both times, and hit a 36 yard pass as time expired on a hail mary short of the endzone. Context matters in that particular game's discussion.

I've noted multiple times on here how I give credit to the Mines coaching staff for shifting their strategy from 5-step dropbacks and going downfield, to 1 and 3-step dropbacks and quick-hitters at the line of scrimmage to negate the GV pass rush that was dominating them the first 2.5 quarters. That, paired with GV refusing to get out of their prevent defense, which is a constant complaint with GV over the last 15 years, was a recipe for disaster. Matocha and the CSM staff took advantage of that, and they had to throw the ball nearly the entire last 24 minutes of the game against a prevent defense and got back in to it. GV was stubborn and played not to lose rather than playing to win. A common refrain against decent opponents for GV.

Against the RMAC+Shepherd, this was Matocha's average game: 326 yards, 3.5 TD, 0.36 INT, and the only reason INT is that high is because of 3 INT against Western Colorado. He threw two INT in the other 10 RMAC+Shepherd games he played.

Against not-the-RMAC-or-Shepherd, this was Matocha's average game: 239 yards, 2.6 TD, 0.50 INT. Nearly 100 yards/less and 1 TD less per game, on average. That was his average in those five games you mentioned against teams in the top 25, minus Pueblo, who suffers from the same issues as the rest of the RMAC when it comes to defensive inability.

Out of his 16 games, his three lowest and four of his lowest six passing yardage totals were against not-the-RMAC. He massively inflates his stats against his own conference, because his conference plays no defense. This isn't breaking news. It has been that way for decades in the RMAC. I don't believe this is a surprising statement.

[KleShreen]

How are you assuming that a correlation exists between NCs and HHs?

Generally the NC's are coming from regions and conferences which display high football talent levels on both sides of the ball. The HHs, generally, do not. I would hope that the winner of the "top player" in the division would be going against good competition for the majority of their season. There's a reason most national champions in FBS come from the top 4 conferences, and the Heisman winners come, usually, from those same 4 conferences.

[KleShreen]

Should someone from the ACC win the Heisman?

I mean Lamar Jackson won it in 2016, because he threw for 3300 yards and 29 TD, and ran for another 1400 yards and 19 TD. Jameis Winston did it because he absolutely destroyed all five ranked teams he played. Beat four of them by at least 27 points. Put up *better* numbers against those ranked teams than he put up against the unranked opponents.

[FSUBulldog27]

It's a large challenge for FSUBulldog27 to have a thought anyway. (Couldn't resist.)

Plenty of thoughts - a lot of data - Sniff test is easy -

Maybe Mines had the best QB in the land but played average against a good defense. Shepherd QB was the best last year and got smoked - What D2 has shown lately is a great defense is better than any top QB in D2 land. Food for thought - Look at Jay Cutler's last year at Vanderbilt - Worst team in the SEC - he was a great QB that made Vanderbilt relevant against monster teams -

The best QBs in D2 last year - average to poor for a HH trophy winner.

Where are the past HH trophy winners in the NFL right now. Do any of these QB's have a chance to make it in the NFL - Will Caleb Murphy make it in the NFL - First ever Hendricks award winner from a non FBS program. Look at Matt Judon - probably the best in D2 in his last year at GV - Ferris has 4 or 5 players in the league now and all on defense accept Bernhardt -

What I don't understand in playing Shepherd last year and Mines this year - they couldn't figure out how to go after an aggressive defense. Maybe instead of 5 step drops its 3 step drops, screens, quick slants and more run plays etc...instead of long developing plays. Pitt State was getting killed on offense against Ferris but the figure a way to keep Defense off the QB - quick passes and screens...

So i am probably bias in thinking Caleb should have been the HH trophy winner - but will still sleep ok with back to back NC and beating GV when it counted (again) . Have a great Christmas everyone!!!!

[Lobo]

Using Kle Shreen’s logic, Doug Flutie, shouldn’t have won the 1984 Heisman Trophy either. Boston College played as an independent university, not in a power conference, and competed against opponents labeled Division I FBS football-playing schools located in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions. BC played against Holy Cross, Western Carolina, Rutgers, Temple, Syracuse and Army the year Flutie won the award. The Eagles joined the Big East Conference a few years later and then the ACC.

BC finished the 1984 season with a 10–2 record. The Eagles 2 losses came against West Virginia and Penn State (coached by Joe Paterno). Flutie played his last college game at the Cotton Bowl and beat the Houston Cougars handily. The Eagles finished No. 5 in the final AP Poll.

Interestingly, Flutie was a sophomore at BC when Hershel Walker edged out John Elway for the Heisman in 1982. Flutie is probably not as tall as Matocha. I know. I played a couple of five-on-five full-court pick-up basketball games on campus at “the plex” when I was a third-year law student at BC. I drew the unfortunate task of guarding him. Dude was a hacker. But he was a very gifted athlete; quick, fast and exceptionally strong.

I got to see Flutie play his sophomore and junior years both on campus and at Sullivan Stadium (former home field of the New England Patriots). My favorite memory is not of him playing however. It comes from a game against Clemson. When their team ran out onto the field, William “The Fridge” trotting out front and while looking at the crowd hollered at us, “Gonna be a freak show! Gonna be a freak show!” It was so random we all laughed. The Fridge was touted as being the biggest player in college football by the Boston Globe at the time. The Chicago Bears took him in the first first-round of the 1985 draft.

Matocha reminds me of Flutie. He’s creative and fun to watch. He’s athletic, quick and has a strong arm. Like Flutie, he can turn broken plays into positive gains. The selection committee did well by choosing him the Harlon Hill winner. Congrats to him for being selected the best player in NCAA Division II football. It’s well deserved.

[Ram040506]

Easy Ram. You put Rivers, Bagent and Matocha on Ferris and they won't last the season and definitely would not put up the stats they did at their respective programs. Same for GV. These are QBs who are effective in the system they run, which is a pass first system. Jared Bernhardt (he played lacrosse in case you didn't know) was effective in the system he was in, but would not have been if he played for one of those 3 teams. That matters whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

There aren't too many D2 qbs who you can put in multiple systems and they would come out as HH candidates in either system. Either way, valid points have been made by all sides in this debate:

System matters
Competition matters (contrary to statements made, Mines had a helluva schedule this year)
Stats matters
Line play matters
Skill position talent matters
etc.

What i'll give Matocha credit for is that his play on the field made his stats secondary. If you watched him he made plays that left you shaking your head. Reminded me of Don Majkowski with the way he escaped plays and made throws from crazy angles (you youngins don't know anything about that) : )

And for the record, that #8 QB for Ferris, tore his liscfranc ligament in the first game, came back and played GV on one foot in the regular season, then had surgery to sew his big toe and second toe together after the game. Played the rest of the season like that. Led us to the Natty. Mylik Mitchell - Put some respect on his name.

Great coaches, you have one, fit their scheme to their talent. Mitchell is solid, and a good game
manager. That’s all Ferris needs. Bernhardt was fantastic.

[Runnin' Cat]

Many of the posts here are plagued with "small sample size" theater.

[Brandon]

I mean Lamar Jackson won it in 2016, because he threw for 3300 yards and 29 TD, and ran for another 1400 yards and 19 TD. Jameis Winston did it because he absolutely destroyed all five ranked teams he played. Beat four of them by at least 27 points. Put up *better* numbers against those ranked teams than he put up against the unranked opponents.

I was curious because Massey has the ACC and RMAC slotted the same this year relative to their level.