Video: Should Division II Overhaul the Playoff System? - with Mike Racy

[GorillaTeacher]

Ok so let’s change it up and put really good teams from the Nidwest and South on the road from time to time..for the “better experience”.

Better experience?

[Matt Witwicki]

Northwest Missouri
Pitt State
Ferris Bueller
Grand Valley
Valdosta State
West Florida
Delta State

Ok...the Elite 7. Maybe being off by one confused you. :-)

These 7 teams will most likely get every playoff game at home in a "fix" if they qualify if we go to an FCS style bracket...I mean some of them already do the D2 regional format.

"Lets make it like FCS"

North Dakota State has played 35 playoff games (not including the finals in Texastan) since 2011.

34 of them have been played in Fargo. They won 33 times.

They played exactly one playoff game on the road as a visiting team.

They lost.

See my point?

It why I want to see those teams at the top travel to places they never go...I mean you all say the home field doesn't matter...okay so 13-0 Northwest can forego the home playoff game and travel to IUP for the game instead...because the home field really doesn't matter much...and why not let these Midwestern kids see new places they have never seen before to give them a "better experience"

:-)

-Let's keep in mind both West Florida and Tex A&M Commerce won on the road in the playoffs starting in R1 and won a natty doing so. 2017 and 2019. That's twice in the last five football seasons played in D2.
-Colorado Mines made the natty last year and won at top seeded Angelo State.
-Ferris won on the road at GVSU last year in the playoffs.

It feels like you want the superior football teams to travel to SR1 in the postseason..just because it doesn't happen as often. That doesn't seem like strong reasoning.

While I couldn't care less about NDSU....there's a reason they've won in Texas 9 out of 10 times (or whatever it is) by an average margin of 14 points or more....it's simply because they are the better football team = if they are dominating in the championship games one would think they'd probably have earned the right for home games in the playoffs along the way.

I think we can see how/why teams earn the right for home games in the playoffs but at the D2 level it certainly hasn't equated into automatically winning national championships. In 2022 GVSU and Angelo were on the inside track for home games throughout the dance..neither made it to the semis.

[Predatory Primates]

Northwest Missouri
Pitt State
Ferris Bueller
Grand Valley
Valdosta State
West Florida
Delta State

Ok...the Elite 7. Maybe being off by one confused you. :-)

These 7 teams will most likely get every playoff game at home in a "fix" if they qualify if we go to an FCS style bracket...I mean some of them already do the D2 regional format.

"Lets make it like FCS"

North Dakota State has played 35 playoff games (not including the finals in Texastan) since 2011.

34 of them have been played in Fargo. They won 33 times.

They played exactly one playoff game on the road as a visiting team.

They lost.

See my point?

It why I want to see those teams at the top travel to places they never go...I mean you all say the home field doesn't matter...okay so 13-0 Northwest can forego the home playoff game and travel to IUP for the game instead...because the home field really doesn't matter much...and why not let these Midwestern kids see new places they have never seen before to give them a "better experience"

:-)

Home field is worth about 3 points in modern football, best case. That's pretty much universally accepted.

The team with the better resume should get the home field.

It's funny that you used NW as an example. They are one of the only teams to have ever won a NC entirely on the road.

Conversely, NDSU didn't lose on the road because they were on the road. They were on the road because they weren't the better team to begin with.

That isn't always the case in D2. Pitt beat NDSU twice at home in the 90s, by 1 and 2 points. NDSU probably would have won those in Fargo.

If the resumes and quality of play are pretty equal, it's a coin flip as to who hosts. If not the better team should host.

[GorillaTeacher]

We can't argue utilizing numbers less, and then argue against bias. The formulas are least biased, however are quite game-able. Committees are admittedly biased, but probably got it right from the get go. Football doesn't happen in a vacuum, so recent history and performance needs to be taken into account when seeding and ranking.

[EastStroud13]

We aren't trying to schedule a unique matchup.

Let's break down the 16 teams like to make the second round..of course there's gonna be upsets, but let's just use the favorites to project things. Keeping in mind, the NCAA had 4 flights in it's own second round..and we'd have the exact same = not the additional travel that's feared.

Matchups in R2 that don't require a flight..
UIndy at GVSU (1)
MSU Mankato at Pitt (4)
Benedict at West FLA (5)
Ashland at Ferris (2)


Here are the remaining teams..
NWMSU
IUP
Shepherd
VUU
Angelo State - TX (3)
OBU - AR (6)
Delta State - MS (7)
CSM - CO (8)

Since the better seeds would host (like any traditional bracket layout), teams like IUP and Shepherd would now need to travel via a flight in R2 like the rest of the country has been doing for a good while now. Once the 2nd round hits there's often a 50/50 chance of air travel needed in the existing system and it would be no different in the FCS system. The FCS system is better because you wouldn't have 5 repeat matchups in R1 like we did this year....you'd have 0.

This isn't "pre-scheduling" anything....it's actually no different than how March Madness is done..it's the creation of a bracket.

Call it what you want; pairing Shep/NDC with Delta St/CSUP guarantees a cross-country flight in the second round. It's not SR1's fault that it's in a geographically dense area of the country, and I don't see a need to force teams to travel further than they need to, even if some teams need to do so regularly due to their location.

Here's an easy seed fix: every Super Region gets at least 1 seeded team. I think that's fair. Sure, you can pencil in a SR1 team for the 8 seed every year, but it reduces the chance of all the seeds being concentrated in one half of the country. And they still have to get through a top-seeded team to get to the national semis.

And the March Madness example is poor, in my opinion. Yes, it's a bracket, but there are nuances that apply to D1 basketball that don't apply to D2 football. I think in this thread, we are all acutely aware of those nuances.

[Brandon]

Northwest Missouri
Pitt State
Ferris Bueller
Grand Valley
Valdosta State
West Florida
Delta State

Ok...the Elite 7. Maybe being off by one confused you. :-)

These 7 teams will most likely get every playoff game at home in a "fix" if they qualify if we go to an FCS style bracket...I mean some of them already do the D2 regional format.

"Lets make it like FCS"

North Dakota State has played 35 playoff games (not including the finals in Texastan) since 2011.

34 of them have been played in Fargo. They won 33 times.

They played exactly one playoff game on the road as a visiting team.

They lost.

See my point?

It why I want to see those teams at the top travel to places they never go...I mean you all say the home field doesn't matter...okay so 13-0 Northwest can forego the home playoff game and travel to IUP for the game instead...because the home field really doesn't matter much...and why not let these Midwestern kids see new places they have never seen before to give them a "better experience"

:-)

It appears that you're trying to engineer a result - no different than when the PSAC/RMAC tried to do the same thing in 2004 and the PSAC did the same thing to IUP in the mid-90's.

The best teams should have the home games and/or byes. That's how it's generally set up in sports. End of story.

I looked at the last 10 D2 seasons.

- Only 4/20 (20%) times was a game close enough that one might determine the home team won because of home field advantage (Valdosta State, Valdosta State, Shepherd, CSU-Pueblo).

- In 5/20 (25%) games, the home team lost.

I also looked at your contention that the Elite 7 always play home games in the playoffs. The following list is each team's playoff history in terms of home/away as best as I could find. They do not count neutral site games (national championship).

It just doesn't seem as if any of your assumptions are true.

	Home	Away
Northwest Missouri	35	28
Pittsburg State	26	14
Ferris State	25	8
Grand Valley	25	21
Valdosta State	-	-
West Florida	3	10
Delta State	11	4

Semifinal Hosts

2022
Ferris State	W 38-17
Colorado Mines	W 44-13
2021
Ferris State	W 55-7
*Valdosta State	W 34-31
2019
Slippery Rock	L 58-15
Ferris State	L 28-14
2018
*Valdosta State	W 30-24
Minnesota State	L 42-35
2017
IUP	L 27-17
Texas A&M-Commerce	W 31-17
2016
Northwest Missouri	W 35-20
North Alabama	W 23-13
2015
Northwest Missouri	W 38-23
*Shepherd	W 34-32
2014
*CSU-Pueblo	W 10-7
Minnesota State	W 47-3
2013
Lenoir-Rhyne	W 42-14
Northwest Missouri	W 27-13
2012
Winston-Salem	W 41-18
Minnesota State	L 17-10

[Predatory Primates]

Ok so let’s change it up and put really good teams from the Nidwest and South on the road from time to time in the Norrheast..for the “better experience”. It doesn’t matter where the game played right?

True effort should be given to get home games for the better teams. If that team is from the NE, they should get the home game. D2 has not done the best job at that, traditionally, although the last 10 years or so they have done OK at it.

[Brandon]

Ok so let’s change it up and put really good teams from the Nidwest and South on the road from time to time in the Norrheast.

It happened in 2019 (SRU lost to MSU 58-15), 2015 (SU won 34-32), and 2017 (IUP lost 27-17).

[Predatory Primates]

I see where Nation is coming from on home games. Back in the 90s, the better team often had to play on the road. As a Pitt fan, that was evident when the NC beat Pitt at home in r1 or 2 a few years in a row. UNC, for example, had to win round 1 at Pitt two years in a row before the bias changed.

I don't know if that is happening at fcs level with their system?

I just don't think the fix is to go completely in the other direction, and automatically give home games to inferior teams. That actually makes the perceived problem worse, not better.

[GorillaTeacher]

Call it what you want; pairing Shep/NDC with Delta St/CSUP guarantees a cross-country flight in the second round. It's not SR1's fault that it's in a geographically dense area of the country, and I don't see a need to force teams to travel further than they need to, even if some teams need to do so regularly due to their location.

Here's an easy seed fix: every Super Region gets at least 1 seeded team. I think that's fair. Sure, you can pencil in a SR1 team for the 8 seed every year, but it reduces the chance of all the seeds being concentrated in one half of the country. And they still have to get through a top-seeded team to get to the national semis.

And the March Madness example is poor, in my opinion. Yes, it's a bracket, but there are nuances that apply to D1 basketball that don't apply to D2 football. I think in this thread, we are all acutely aware of those nuances.

Cross country flights are darn near guaranteed already in R2, what difference does it make who is making the flights? Why should it be any different for SR1?

[IUPNation]

Better experience?

It’s what is part of the reasoning for this fix..to hive the student athletes the best experience. So wouldn’t it be nice for kids from Missouri and Kanas to see Pennsylvania for a change of scenery and better experience?
:-)

[IUPNation]

-Let's keep in mind both West Florida and Tex A&M Commerce won on the road in the playoffs starting in R1 and won a natty doing so. 2017 and 2019. That's twice in the last five football seasons played in D2.
-Colorado Mines made the natty last year and won at top seeded Angelo State.
-Ferris won on the road at GVSU last year in the playoffs.

It feels like you want the superior football teams to travel to SR1 in the postseason..just because it doesn't happen as often. That doesn't seem like strong reasoning.

While I couldn't care less about NDSU....there's a reason they've won in Texas 9 out of 10 times (or whatever it is) by an average margin of 14 points or more....it's simply because they are the better football team = if they are dominating in the championship games one would think they'd probably have earned the right for home games in the playoffs along the way.

I think we can see how/why teams earn the right for home games in the playoffs but at the D2 level it certainly hasn't equated into automatically winning national championships. In 2022 GVSU and Angelo were on the inside track for home games throughout the dance..neither made it to the semis.

Yes I do. Because I know what is going to happen when it gets fixed..and nobody on here will admit it.

[IUPNation]

Home field is worth about 3 points in modern football, best case. That's pretty much universally accepted.

The team with the better resume should get the home field.

It's funny that you used NW as an example. They are one of the only teams to have ever won a NC entirely on the road.

Conversely, NDSU didn't lose on the road because they were on the road. They were on the road because they weren't the better team to begin with.

That isn't always the case in D2. Pitt beat NDSU twice at home in the 90s, by 1 and 2 points. NDSU probably would have won those in Fargo.

If the resumes and quality of play are pretty equal, it's a coin flip as to who hosts. If not the better team should host.

If it doesn’t matter, we can shake it up who hosts.

[IUPNation]

We can't argue utilizing numbers less, and then argue against bias. The formulas are least biased, however are quite game-able. Committees are admittedly biased, but probably got it right from the get go. Football doesn't happen in a vacuum, so recent history and performance needs to be taken into account when seeding and ranking.

So Midwest bias it is!!

[IUPNation]

It appears that you're trying to engineer a result - no different than when the PSAC/RMAC tried to do the same thing in 2004 and the PSAC did the same thing to IUP in the mid-90's.

The best teams should have the home games and/or byes. That's how it's generally set up in sports. End of story.

I looked at the last 10 D2 seasons.

- Only 4/20 (20%) times was a game close enough that one might determine the home team won because of home field advantage (Valdosta State, Valdosta State, Shepherd, CSU-Pueblo).

- In 5/20 (25%) games, the home team lost.

I also looked at your contention that the Elite 7 always play home games in the playoffs. The following list is each team's playoff history in terms of home/away as best as I could find. They do not count neutral site games (national championship).

It just doesn't seem as if any of your assumptions are true.

	Home	Away
Northwest Missouri	35	28
Pittsburg State	26	14
Ferris State	25	8
Grand Valley	25	21
Valdosta State	-	-
West Florida	3	10
Delta State	11	4

Semifinal Hosts

2022
Ferris State	W 38-17
Colorado Mines	W 44-13
2021
Ferris State	W 55-7
*Valdosta State	W 34-31
2019
Slippery Rock	L 58-15
Ferris State	L 28-14
2018
*Valdosta State	W 30-24
Minnesota State	L 42-35
2017
IUP	L 27-17
Texas A&M-Commerce	W 31-17
2016
Northwest Missouri	W 35-20
North Alabama	W 23-13
2015
Northwest Missouri	W 38-23
*Shepherd	W 34-32
2014
*CSU-Pueblo	W 10-7
Minnesota State	W 47-3
2013
Lenoir-Rhyne	W 42-14
Northwest Missouri	W 27-13
2012
Winston-Salem	W 41-18
Minnesota State	L 17-10

It’s mostly true.

Now do IUP.